Eagle Scout References

[Eagle309]

The Eagle Scout application asks for references-- parents, religious, education, employer, and two "other". We have a Scout nearing completion of this rank and he has asked if the "other" references need to be "adults" or could they be "youth". He will be the first Eagle in our Troop so I was unsure how to answer this. Does anyone know if there is any official stance on this?

[evmori]

Other means other. It can be an adult or a youth.

[packsaddle]

While I understand that practice varies from council to council, there is a chance that the council will actually ask for letters or they may make followup calls to references. I'd only list references who you think would be good for such followup. For this unit, we have never listed another boy although I agree with Ed, that possibility is not ruled out.

[RememberSchiff]

When you see "other references" on a job application, college application, or Eagle application, do your chances a favor and think that other (adult) references is implied. Teachers, coaches, merit badge counselors, neighbors, and adult scout leaders. You have associated with adults as part of a Scout program method, so this should not be a problem. Good luck.

 

[John-in-KC]

This is one of those questions you ask of your friendly local District Advancement Chair. Your Council and/or District may have a local interpretation of ACP&P #33088 and Requirements #33215 which we don't have. That local interpretation, if any, needs to govern.

[Beavah]

Yah, I agree with John-in-KC. Ask your local folks, they'll give yeh the straight scoop on what they expect.

 

Me personally, I sort of like the units and districts that ask for a peer reference from a lad. Other kids see a boy's character when no adults are watching, eh?

 

Beavah

 

[Bob White]

Since neither the Council or District is charged with "interoreting" the National advancement requirements and polices but rather for following and enforcing them I would see not reason to seek a verdict on this.

 

Rather, I would follow the request for two additional references, and since it does not state that they miust be from an adult over the age of (fill in the blank), then I would not worry about it.

 

What I would do is counsel the scout how how the right kind of references can enhance an application be it an Eagle Scout application or a job application. The key is to have people of stature as references.

 

Don't just pick people who know you, pick people with credentials that know you. The SPL of your your NYLT course, The Lodge Chief of your OA, the Senior Patrol Leader of your troop, the president of your Student Council, the captain of sports team you play on.

 

These are people who can speak to your character and that the advancement committee will be impressed by, and not Fred from down the street that you play video games with.

 

[Beavah]

Yah, unless Fred down the street that you play video games with can write about how you convinced him not to try marijuana the one time you were really tempted, or how yeh saved him from failing algebra by helping him study, or how yeh supported him when he was depressed when his parents were gettin' a divorce, or how he was always bein' bullied and you stood up for him, or...

 

The world that kids live in is a big one, eh? If we're interested in a lad's character, it's not da folks with credentials that matter. Everybody tries to suck up to the folks with credentials.

 

It's how he behaved toward folks in need - those without credentials - that really demonstrates his character.

 

Whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers, you do to me.

 

Just MHO, of course.

 

Beavah(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[John-in-KC]

B, and all...

 

Since I've been here, I've heard of ...

 

A Council Advancement Committee which has Scouts give the blank reference and a stamped addressed envelope to the person writing the reference. It gets mailed to the SM or CC, who consolidate for the EBOR (that would be my own Council).

 

A Council Advancement Committee which has the Registrar send out letters of reference blanks, consolidates, and publishes for the EBOR.

 

A Council Advancement Committee which doesn't do any front end checking.

 

A Council Advancement Committee which has the District Guest make personal contact with each reference.

 

How local entities implement BSA publications has some variance, unit to unit, Council to Council, Nationwide. It's called interpretation. Those who do not understand this are doomed to being called a one word term: Bureaucrats

 

My thoughts. I'll write no more in this thread.

[scoutingagain]

For "others" my son used our neighbor and his grandparents. But I agree a well written reference from a peer can be very moving. I speak from personal experience.

 

The neighbor's son, recently wrote his college essay. He was kind enough to share it with my wife and I. He's been through some tough times lately, parents recent divorce, minor trouble with the law, grades falling off, but is basically a decent kid.

 

His essay was about my son. He talked about the kind of friend he was and how as an Eagle Scout he was able to look to my son as a role model and turn his life around. The boy is very well written. He opened up in the essay and showed a sensitive side to himself. He also talked about how he saw my son and wanted to be like him.

 

The boy is in his final year in High School and recently won the lead in the school fall production. His grades have improved as well. He can still be a bit spirited but has learned where the lines are. It was quite moving to read first hand how much youth leadership effected this boy, especially when that leadership and role model was my son.

 

I hope the young man gets into the school of his choice.

 

SA

[Bob White]

John, all the items you list are ways councils obtain the references and all are specifically allowed by the BSA Advancement Policies and Procedures. They are not interpretations, they are stated options from which National gives the council the choice to select from.

 

That was not the topic of the thread. Our discussion was on the use of youth as references, not on the method of collecting the references.

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[evmori]

The key is to have people of stature as references.

 

The key is to have people who know the Eagle candidate well as references regardless of stature!

[Gunny2862]

All good points above,

in my very limited experience in this area, locally, our Eagle advancement coordinator/s for the DAC will ask the Scout to provide adult references if he has solicited references from minors.

 

I believe he sees it as a way to keep Scouts from glad-handing each other with good references and taking the force of the reference out.

I think he might consider and forward to the EBoR references from "The SPL of your your NYLT course, The Lodge Chief of your OA, "Gunny 2862 deleted reference", the president of your Student Council, the captain of sports team you play on." unless they were members of your Troop but would probably still ask for the adult references.

 

It MAY not be the way BSA writes it but it is the way he/they choose to implement it.

[baschram645]

When an Eagle candidate and I go over the application, I give him some guidelines about the references he needs.

 

1. A letter from an Educator. (Usually a teacher or Principle are more than happy to do this) The scout may use two or three educators to get the three letters he needs.

 

2. No family members or Adult leaders in the troop. A Den Leader or Cubmaster are fine.

 

3. No friends or fellow scouts.

 

4. A sports coach, Pastor or other youth group leader (4H, FFA, etc).

 

5. A neighbor.

 

One recent candidate got his girl friend's mom to write him a letter. It was very nice to see what she thought of this young man