Questionable Eagle Project

[Annielope]

I've been a SM for 5 1/2 years. Had a Scout run an Eagle project by me last week.

 

1. A traffic light is needed near a school

2. He will condcut a study of the traffic.

3. Determine if a policeman or a light would be most cost effective.

4. Have people collect signatures on petitions.

5. Present the proposal to city council

 

Sine I'm posting this here you can probably guess that I said no to the project. Told the Scout that it didn't sound like an Eagle project to me but I would talk to some other people. I ran it by my CC, advancement chair, and an ASM all of who gave it a thumbs down (before I gave them my opinion). I expect to hear from the parents on this one.

 

Interested in any thughts/opinions on this.

[dan]

I would say it is a good project, BUT it would not be complete until a traffic light is installed or the police are directing traffic on school days.

 

That should make him reconsider.

[evmori]

Since it usually requires an extensive study and approval by either local, county or state authorities, I would say this would qualify for an Eagle project if the Scout had a couple years to see it through. Since he probably doesn't, I would concur with your decision.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

A blessed Christmas to all

[Gold Winger]

I'd ask where the leadership opportunities are?

[SR540Beaver]

An Eagle Scout project should not be a Lone Ranger project. Other than self discipline, what kind of leadership and management would this project show? I'd say no too.

[Lisabob]

I'd have said no too. Doing a real traffic study requires some skills that most scouts do not possess. Without those skills, the study would ultimately be meaningless, nothing more than this scout's opinion. The state or county or municipality would almost certainly disregard this scout's efforts in deciding whether or not to put in the stop light.

 

If the scout is interested in this type of thing, perhaps someone in the troop can help him arrange a meeting with a local traffic engineer (check w/ your town planning dept maybe) to discuss how these types of studies are typically designed. He might find the process interesting, even if he doesn't end up doing this as his project.

 

 

[scoutldr]

This sounds more like a good project for Safety MB, requirement #6. Not an Eagle Leadership project.

[John-in-KC]

Scout can show leadership by training folk to conduct the study per State DOT requirements, managing time slots so critical times are covered, developing a compliant reporting format, and ensuring compliance.

 

Of course, the Scouts should be in school for most of the business/school day, so his labor pool goes South from the git-go.**

 

** A comment edited in: I've seen nothing in Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures #33088 which requires a Scout to only have a labor pool of Scouts. If adults are willing to acept the training and perform the task to the candidates' standard, or if they possess a skillset which is essential to the project, run with the situation given.

 

One thing I've learned in watching Eagle candidates propose leadership service projects: If the SM is not talking with the District Advancement Chair, the SM DOES NOT KNOW what will/will not be accepted as a proejct.

 

It seems to me this proposed project has not been floated before in your Troop. Ms Lope, talk with your DAC. He may have a way to make this a win/win.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[scoutldr]

If the troop committee gave it a "thumbs down", I think you're done. The first step is getting the plan approved by the SM and troop committee.

[John-in-KC]

scoutldr,

 

I disagree. The Scoutmaster is the Program Officer of the unit. It's his/her job to ask questions constantly. It's his/her job to have a side word with the Committee, particularly if District thinks the project will fly, and help the young man win.

 

That's why the Scouting System provides resources at District and Council levels... how much effort is it for a CC to ask a simple question over the phone? Is the CC applying the Scout Law (helpful, friendly) if he/she simply rejects out-of-hand?

 

[Beavah]

Yah, what an interestin' idea for a project, eh?

 

I sure get tired of sittin' on project reviews for yet another "build a park bench" project.

 

The lad found something worthwhile and important that he's interested in, will learn a lot from, and might actually save a few lives. One that ties into Citizenship in the Community (and Communication, and ....) far better than the average project.

 

And all da adults around are tellin' him to go build a park bench??!

 

Our role as adults is to support kids in their efforts and dreams, not shoehorn 'em into our notion of what they should do. If we can't take on the challenge of mentoring a kid who is tryin' to do something novel that he cares about, it's time to turn in our uniforms. There's goin' to be more hurdles and need for scrutiny on this project, but so what? At least it'll be fun and different. And the lad gets credit for his work even if it fails, eh?

 

I think yeh say "Hey, great idea!". Then you sit down with him and explain the need for a signoff from a local organization - like the school or the city/county. And you explain the need to show leadership and set your expectations for that. Try to hook 'em up with good professional folks to talk to and work with.

 

The one thing I'd be leery of is the petitions bit. Yeh don't want an Eagle project to look like a lobbying effort. I'd take that bit out, so it feels more like a service to the city council. After that, if he wants to gather petitions on his own because they didn't listen the first time, that's fine, eh?

 

So my vote is "Go!" What a super project, and likely to be a big influence on the lad's life and career, plus a major safety improvement for his community.

 

Beavah

 

[Gold Winger]

When I was Advancements Guy for my son's troop, I also chaired the Eagle Project Review Subcommittee. Based on the information here, this project wouldn't have made it out of the room unless he could convince me that he had opportunities for leadership.

 

I saw more than a few project proposals that consisted of "I'm going to do this, I'm going to do that, and then I'm going to . . ." These were shot down and sent back for revision.

 

 

[scoutldr]

John, respectfully agree to disagree. I think it's the Scout's job to convince the troop committee...not the SM. When you reach this level, you shouldn't need adults to step in and run interference for you. As far as we can tell, the scout has not even talked to the committee yet. At this point it sounds like he's just brainstorming and the SM is socializing the idea...not presenting a well-thought out plan.

 

PS: The first statement is "A traffic light is needed near a school." I would not take that as a given. In my city, there are criteria which determine where traffic lights go, including traffic density, and the proximity of other lights and intersections. Traffic engineers get paid to decide these things. The first step would be to contact the traffic engineer who may just say "I don't care what you think, it doesn't meet the criteria". Or he may say "Great idea, let's run with it." Scout needs to do more homework before he presents his idea for approval.(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

[Gold Winger]

That's a very good point about the traffic engineers determining the need for a light.

 

Where I used to live there people kept clammoring for traffice lights on the 1 mile stretch of the main drag because during rush hour traffic got heave for about fifteen minutes every hour. The state came in, did a study and said, "Nope!"

 

Perhaps this fellow's project could be as simple as heading up the effort to get community support for a study, as in the petition drive.

 

Many times, people think that lights are needed where they aren't because they are only worried about their 15 minute time slot. I know that 30 years ago, it cost about $40,000 to put in a new traffic light and that doesn't include the maintenance issues. Now, with inflation it would probably be $100,000 and you can pay quite a few crossing guards for $100,000.

 

 

[packsaddle]

Annielope, Welcome to the forums!

I tend to side with Beavah on this one. There are many ways for boys to show leadership and I would not dampen a boy's enthusiasm if I could avoid it.

 

Another point though, after years of being required by the district to clear project proposals with the DAC FIRST, before the troop people sign off, we now have a complete reversal of that policy. Me, I just go with the flow...you know, just following orders - as mercurial as they may be at times.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)