Appeals

[evmori]

BTW, I do know of a scout who had been convicted a selling cocaine to fellow students. He was denied his Eagle rank at his BOR, largely based on the issue of selling drugs. He appealed and was eventually awarded his Eagle.

 

To me this is a problem. Has the Eagle rank turned into a numbers game?

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Trevorum]

huh? it sounds like you're saying that any criminal conviction should be an automatic disqualifier, regardless of circumstances.

[LongHaul]

Ed,

I have posted before concerning a Scout in my area who was promoted to the rank of Eagle while on the sex offenders list. This boy had twice assaulted the same young woman and all the youth in that High School knew of the incidents. The bragging rights of having another Eagle from that troop out weighed the moral issues. I was told by my DE that my troop wasn't productive because in 15 years we only had a few Eagle Scouts. We see the individual most only see the numbers.

LongHaul

[John-in-KC]

I think the challenges come down to this:

 

1) Have the adult leaders done their job along a Scouts' trail to Eagle? If a young man is at risk, there needs to be lots of mentorship ... some of it may need to be placed in a SM's/CC's personal papers.

 

2) Do the adult leaders of a unit have a good working relationship with:

- Their COR?

- Their UC?

- The DC?

- The District Advancement Chairman?

- The District Chairman?

 

The District Chairman and the District Commissioner have access to the Council Heavy Hitters (Executive Board and Council Commissioner), and the District Advancement Chair had jolly well better have access to the Council Advancement Chair!

 

If in spite of all this, the young man makes Eagle, then its time for the COR to express his displeasure with the Scouting program at the annual business meeting, and in other opportunities!

[scoutldr]

How can a convicted criminal be considered "morally straight"?

 

If we can say that homosexual behavior is automtically disqualifying, I think that automatically disqualifying criminal behavior is reasonable. If you want to be an Eagle, then don't be a criminal. I don't think that's too hard a concept to grasp.

 

 

[Eamonn]

I'm a little unsure what the question is?

If the question is "Should youth members who are actively involved in selling drugs be granted Eagle rank?

I think that they are not living by the Scout Oath and Law and fail to meet the Scout Spirit requirement.

If the question is "Should a youth who in the past sold drugs be totally disqualified from ever being able to earn Eagle Scout rank?

I would hope that if the Lad has seen the error of his ways and is now Demonstrating Scout spirit by living the Scout Oath (Promise) and Scout Law in his everyday life, that we would work with him and help him meet his goal.

If the question is? "Has the Eagle rank turned into a numbers game?"

I'm not sure what "turned into a numbers game?"

means?

I'm sure at almost every level: Unit, District, Council, Region and National someone has kept count of the number of Scouts who have reached Eagle rank.

The number of Scouts who reach the rank is viewed as a mark of success. A pal of mine went so far as to have his car license plate read "3 Eagles" to mark the fact that all 3 of his sons made Eagle Scout.I can tell you that last year our District had 38 Eagle Scouts. I used this number when I was asking people from the community to donate to Scouting. That being the case I'd have to agree that numbers do come into play.

I do have a strange mix of feelings about Eagle Scout rank.

I see the requirements as being very straight forward, following them and meeting them isn't rocket science.

While making Eagle Scout is the mark of having done something very special, at times I think we the adults make it more than what it is.

The Eagle belongs to the Scout. It is his Eagle. At the end of the day he is the only person who really knows what it's worth.

Deep down he knows how good or bad a job he did while serving in position of responsibility. He knows if he really did earn the Merit Badges. He knows if he really did plan, develop, and give leadership to others in the service project.

Of course along the way adults have helped and at times have coached.

But the true worth of the Eagle Scout rank belongs to the person who receives it. He knows if it's just a chunk of metal and bit of cloth which doesn't have much meaning or if it is something really special.

I'm happy to leave it that way.

Eamonn.

 

[evmori]

If a Scout has been convicted of a crime and over time has turned his life around & truly repented, then yes he maybe worthy to be an Eagle.

 

What do I mean by a numbers game? Quantity vs quality.

 

No Trevorum, I am not saying any criminal conviction should be an automatic disqualifier. But it should carry a lot of weight in the EBOR's decision.

 

scoutldr,

 

Excellent point.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

 

 

[Eamonn]

"Quantity vs quality. "

But the only true quality of it lies with the person who receives it.

Eamonn.

 

[packsaddle]

Responding to Ed's original post:

The answer to me is that it is not relevant whether or not eagle has become a numbers game. The perspective of anyone who views it as a numbers game is a perspective that judges the accomplishments of an individual and their personal growth during those accomplishments...by comparison to the group. This, to me, is unfair, unscoutlike, and invalid.

The boy who earns his eagle rank knows better than anyone what he has accomplished and how he has grown during the process. For those who worked hard and attained it through honest effort, their personal knowledge will accompany a sense of great satisfaction. For those who 'worked the angles' or for whom eagle was merely a notch on a resume, there will be no such deep sense of meaning.

NO ONE on the outside can know any of this because it is as deeply personal as one's religious faith. And it is similarly not up for judgement by others.

So let the professionals and those persons who do not personally value this achievement go ahead and play their games. It is their loss.

 

[scoutingagain]

Since it's my quote Ed used to start this thread I'll clarify based on what little I know.

 

This information was provided to me by our District Advancement Chair. The local EBOR did in fact, deny the candidate his rank based on his past criminal activity. How far past, I don't know. What had he done in the mean time I don't know. The Candidate appealed, and I don't know for certain, but I beleive the appeal went all the way to the National office where the decision of the EBOR was overturned.

 

I posted the statement primarily as an indication that it appears as far as the National office is concerned, a drug conviction, even one involving sale and distribution, is not automatic grounds for denial of the Eagle rank. I admit I would be very curious as to where this young man is today.

 

SA