drmbear

It may not be the purpose of religion to bring people together, but it is certainly the purpose of Scouting to bring people together. That's what I got out of B-P's objectives and purpose of the Scouting movement, it's what I get out of the Scout Oath and Law.

And then there is bombing of women's health clinics with the doctors as targets by folks claiming their Christianity as the reason. Division in the name of religion. From what I've seen, most religions have the general foundational idea of being nice to one another, don't kill, general Scout ideals and values that grew in me during my time as a Scout. As a Scout I feel it is part of my task or mission to help others see how we can get along, find commonality, if in no other way than by setting that example to be interested in and respectful of others in their beliefs. When Scouting takes a stand to support division, that goes against everything I grew to believe is the purpose of Scouting. Even in the "methods of Scouting" we wear uniforms in part to remove barriers.

It's amazing how far from the original thread the latest posts have gotten. I know I had something relevant to say from what I was reading earlier, but then getting into the merits of the Venturers took the whole point elsewhere. Anyway, Scouting has several great things it does for youth: First is the outdoor program, and regardless of religious belief or sexual orientation, all boys should be able to participate and will benefit from the very best outdoor program for youth. Second, Scouting has a long tradition of building citizenship, and it pains me greatly to see how far Scouting is straying from what I learned about citizenship as a Scout by more recently instituting policies of discrimination and hatred. It is religious division which creates suicide bombers (of the 9/11 like), murder and violence against those "different," racism, sexism, and more. The humanist kid may be athiest, but may also have a strong moral foundation, desire for social justice, and a driving commitment to service that would make him a great Scout and leader among men. The gay youth is already dealing with challenges of identity, but to be ostracized from his friends by a youth organization that should represent the ideal of good citizenship is a crime. Finally, I believe Scouting provides a place for boys to grow into men. The skills and experiences build confidence and capability - I rarely come across a former Scout that is clueless on how to follow the directions and use screwdriver and pliars to assemble something out of a box (non-Scouts is another story). There is a reason so many of the astronauts were Scouts - because they learned to be resilient and make do with little or nothing. Was it Apollo 13 that made it back against odds partially because of Boy Scout ingenuity? A youth in our society, regardless of sexual orientation or religious beliefs, should be given the opportunities to be capable, to learn how to work shoulder-to-shoulder with anyone, and to learn not to pass judgement on another person until he has done so. BSA has stepped so far away from the idea of a true World Brotherhood of Scouting, a dream concept of our founder, that it is beyond comprehension to me. I'll never stop pushing those concepts in my own zone of influence, but it is hard when the underlying policies discriminate. It wasn't that long ago in our country when the same kinds of stands were taken over race, and Scouting did the right thing there. How they ended up on the wrong side of this stand of discrimination makes no sense.

My very favorite position in Scouting was as the Senior Patrol Leader, which I did whenever I got the chance. I even acted as SPL for our council's Troop Leader Training course for a couple of years (training the staff and then running the course). I absolutely loved it. As an adult leader in Boy Scouts, you stay far, far away from that kind of involvement, but as a Cubmaster.... wow! It's the SPL - just that the boys are a lot smaller. I get to do all the wild and crazy things I got to do as SPL - lead songs, organize crazy skits, teach things, be the center of attention, etc. Exactly the opposite of what you need to do as an adult Boy Scout Leader. So when I think of prestige as a Scout Leader, my only real concern is how the Scouts see me. My boys have fun, we do crazy things, and I hope that they pick up something about how they can be a great fun leader as they move on to Boy Scouts. My task as a Boy Scout Leader is no less important, but I can't be THAT person. There is probably no more important a time in a man's life than during the boy-to-man transition, and helping young men find their way then is what this program is all about. As a Cub Scout Leader I can just DO whatever needs to be done, but as a Boy Scout Leader I have to be far more skilled at helping the guys find their own path, setting a good example, and creating influence to good choices. Maybe the only prestige you're talking about has to do with longevity, but either way I'm not as concerned with the recognition from other adult Scout Leaders as I am from the Scouts themselves.

Our PWD tends to be on a Saturday morning, and there are always folks that show up, drop off their car, got to sporting events or activities they're involved in, and come back afterward. The car still races. So long as someone weighs it in, I don't see why not to let them.

I say the only thing they should have is their "ten essentials," things they would naturally have on them as a good Scout (Be Prepared) when they are out on a hike. If I'm out on an adventure with my family or with Scouts, that's the thing I definitely have with me, and I can get by pretty darn well no matter what with just those ten essentials, a water bottle, a few snacks, and appropriate clothing, jacket, etc.

The cost of a Scout uniform is a great deal compared to some of the other things kids get into nowadays. A few years back, my daughter got involved in a travelling soccer league. For a four month season, the cost was over $350, the uniform (shorts, jersey, socks, warmup) was another $160, shoes were $75, and I think we paid another $25 or $30 for a ball. In the four years I've been back in Scouting with my son, I am not sure the cost of uniforms, annual dues, and everything else has added up to that much. That was sticker shock, and I am thankful for the affordability of Scouting in a year-long program.

Someone mentioned the idea that Scout skills can be learned at IOLS. The idea of that makes me fall out of my chair laughing. I actually have no idea exactly what IOLS is for, because there was absolutely nothing of real value learned in the whole day they spent putting it on. I was actually embarassed that I had to be there to witness that. Okay, it is an "Introduction," not really a mastery class, but there really is nothing from all of that I can use to teach boys. I have my old Fieldbook and other resources, but mostly I am just thankful nowadays for all the things I can pick up on the internet for bringing things up to date, picking up new ideas, tools, methods.

Talking just functionality, I take my uniform pants when I am traveling because they are convertable and because with the nylon I can wash them out in the sink at night, then hang them to dry overnight so they'll be ready to go in the morning. A pair rolls up small and light for backpacking and not wanting the excess weight. For most of the seasons I'm out doing Scouting activities, they do perfectly well alone. In colder weather, I'd want some warm layers, and I'd probably spray some scotch guard or something on the outer layer Scout pants. I still like that the nylon will not retain the water, which could cause you to be a lot colder, which is the problem you have with jeans and BDUs - I know because that's what I wore as a kid when I went camping. I know better now. This uniform is not bad for outdoor active wear.

I've been bothered more and more by the idea that Scouting, an organization that claims to have as a central core principal of citizenship, has established guidelines of discrimination. I'm not with him on much, and don't really consider him much of a leader (and all the Republicans are a disappointment), but on this matter I agree with Romney. Is Scouting really going to lag behind history on this? Just as anyone upholding ideas of racism, thinking policies of the 50's and early 60's as okay, would be considered a dinosaur, most youth of today get it that issues sexual orientation are just not that big of a deal. And is a humanist really such a threat to the principals of Scouting?

Could you see a guy showing up for the NY Giants bootcamp, saying he really likes the team and playing football, but insists on wearing his own pants (jeans). Or deciding to wear your own color and style jersey to play with the Lakers. Or showing up at the recruiting station to join the military, but insisting you won't wear the uniform. Maybe there are things that could be better with the uniform, but I find today's uniforms leaps and bounds better than the junk we had in the 1970's. The shorts that can be used as a swimsuit, for summer wear, if it had a button rather than a snap it would be better, but even like they are are far better than anything I've found at any of the leading outdoorwear suppliers. I had a backpacking trip that I knew would be hot, very high humidity, lots of streams to cross and swim in, and those shorts(no undies) were all I needed. They wore incredibly well. The Supplex zip-off pants don't always look sharp, but they are durable and wear well. If it is cold out, I use layers. From what I can tell, I'm lucky I got a bunch of the pants when they were on clearance for $5 each. I'm tall, so the shorts(when zipped off) don't hang so long, but I've noticed the newer ones are well below the knee for most folks. My brother hates them, but is jealous of mine. Honestly, if I had some that didn't fit right, just like for any uniform I had to wear, I would get them altered to fit for me. This is something I wear several times a week, so I expect it to fit right. If what you have doesn't fit, why are you complaining about it rather than fixing it so they wear correctly for you. Maybe I can find a pair of jeans off the rack that fits better than the uniform, but that will never be the uniform.

This is the one I made and like so much: http://www.instructables.com/id/Woodgas-Can-Stove/ It is essentially a 1 quart paint can, bought new at the hardware store, and the 19oz Progresso soup can. I also used another short can I had for the pot rest up top. When I removed the bottom of the paint can (after making all the vent holes), it makes a place to slide the pot rest into for storage. This thing burns hot, boiled two quarts of water in no time (though you have to add fuel - it doesn't take much), and to meet LNT guidelines, like any stove it can be put on a rock or some other resilient surface above ground. As for the question about carbon/soot, it doesn't form on the outside of the can, and the way this thing burns, with lots of air flow, I don't even notice much forming inside. Even the cookware didn't get very sooty. Right now, I have a little ditty bag made of corduroy (I know, not light-weight, but I can also use as a pot holder), but could also use one made of nylon. I could really use one just like what came with my GSI mess kit, which doubles as a water basin. The one I made seems more refined than the Midge stove in the earlier post, and fits in well with my backpacking gear. I'm fairly certain I could fit a Whisperlite or other small gas stove inside it for storage if I chose to bring both (with a far smaller amount of white gas)just to have backup. I'm fairly certain I could do most of my backpacking here in Virginia (Shenandoah National Park and Appalacian Trail, for example), with nothing but the wood gas stove because I know the availability of downed wood is pentiful, and I need only a five or six feet branch, 1 to 2-inch diameter at the base, to boil enough water for a meal for two people.

I just say that for this race, we are using THIS scale. Doesn't matter what any other scale says.

I'd highly recommend having boys make wood-gas stoves, and there is nothing that outlaws those. I have one for backpacking made from a quart-size paint can and progresso soup can that is lightweight and boiled the water for a dinner for two with just part of a small branch picked up along the trail (backpacking in Shenandoah National Park). I think they are amazing.

I set up a Cubmobile race for one of our Pack Events(monthly meetings). We did the whole thing in an hour. We brought boxes, craft supplies, and markers. Each den was to make a car, cutting out the holes, using paper plates for wheels, decorating, taping, etc. We set up the race track outdoors, and it was set up as a relay, with various requirements along the way(things they had to do at pit stops), and they had to switch drivers so everyone got to race. The boys had a blast - it was wild fun. Round and round they go...

We use Scoutlander, and I really like the capability to attach things in the calendar posts, maintain and populate the calendar months ahead of time. I like that I can send email blasts to the entire Pack, to individual dens, or only to leaders. I like that signups and registrations to events can be staged to the calendar. And I like that the calendar automatically sends reminders two deays before events (though I wish that were adjustable). though they are now asking for donations to support it, it is still free to use. Our Pack is considering making a donation each year to support the site since it has made a huge difference in communication for us.

Something I now definitely include, particularly when there are at least a few of us, is one of the very small, lightweight, wood burning stoves (I made mine with a quart paint can and soup can). There is literally an unlimited supply of downed wood along the trails in Shenandoah National Park (AT area) where I last took a backpacking trip, and I was able to boil water nearly as fast as my gas stove with only about a handful of small one-inch cubes of downed wood, maybe a small branch. It is extremely lightweight, I don't need to carry fuel(when in the right places) meaning I can go for unlimited time, and it's easy to use. I'm thinking if I can find a gas stove that fits inside it, and a very small fuel bottle, it could cover all possibilities.

Didn't see a BSA plate for VA, so got my school's. But I personalized it to: "2SCOUT"

I think you want to check out www.praypub.org. You'll find lots of additional info there. Religious emblems are usually earned, and even very often presented, within their own churches. There's also a lot of cool info to be found at: http://usscouts.org/usscouts/reverent.asp Have fun.

I read every Louis L'amour book I could get my hands on as a kid, and I still have most of them. I read lots of other frontier books as well. Stirring an interest in my 9-yo son is about impossible though. He's into the Harry Potter, Bakugan, Pokemon, etc. kinds of things, and is so far removed from that real American hero concept, with the fantasy being the development of real skills, in stealth, tracking, fighting, shooting, endurance, determination, and more. I always appreciated that the heroes in these stories I loved reading most often had to overcome great odds in a real way in order to come out victorius. Although it may be fun to get lost in the magical, fantasy worlds of video games and wizardry, where is the connection to character-building traights and real life skills?

The main idea is to put on a ceremony that has more to it than a ziploc bag and a handshake. There are lots of ceremonies that I do that have nothing at all to do with "facts" or "authentic," but I certainly try to make them memorable and fun. This is Cub Scouts, not the inauguration of a Surpreme Court Justice (I was going to say President, but I was afraid someone would start commenting on the comedy aspects of that!).

Stosh, I believe in Allah, I believe in Yahweh, I believe in God, I believe there is no God, I believe in Santa Clause (he came to our house). I believe in Love, and Truth, and Wonder. I believe it is incredibly amazing that our minds have moved to consider any of these things beyond the search for food and shelter. I believe it is completely wrong that people have died because their beliefs on these matters did not match another, that wars have been fought over beliefs. I believe it is wrong that we perpetuate those same battles here, among Scouts, on this list. My entire foundational Scouting experience, the most important thing I gathered in my very first years as a Scout, was to be accepting of other people, show respect for other's beliefs, and to seek that ideal of a World Brotherhood of Scouting, eliminating the need for war everywhere in the world. I guess it is just one Scout at a time....

I'm here because I'm a Scout, and Eagle Scout, a Cub Scout Leader, and I expect I'll be continuing with this path for some time. Some of these issues about positions that BSA has taken kinda bother me, though. So I know I find myself in the middle of some of these discussions. It really bothers me that Scouting considers citizenship a core value, we pride ourselves on Scouting's role in creating good citizens, but then Scouting upholds a principal of discrimination that that goes against core government and business ideas about what it means to be a good citizen. So heck yeah - it may be a rehash - it may even look like a "systematic political agenda," but I see it as trying to get Scouting to find its way out of principals that I see as outside the Scout Oath and Law. When I notice those discussions, even when I am looking around and find an old discussion that sparks my interest, then maybe I will feel compelled to make a comment. I've never been one to just stand around and let something I care about slide further into stupidity (in my opinion).

Hey Beav, I'm a Unitarian Universalist... there's not much that I would consider just plain wrong. I'm more likely to say..."you know, there may be something of value in that idea...tell me more!"

For things like dump cakes that go in wet, I now really prefer to go with these Dutch oven liners that are readily available nowadays. What I would have given to have these years ago. I use a lot of cast iron at home, and I swear by the lecithin that is in most pan sprays as helping to keep my cast iron seasoned. Prior to use, just wash it gently with soap and water to clean any loose residue, coat the thing in pan spray, and it is ready to go. As that lecithin bakes on my cookware has gotten incredibly well seasoned. I've had people marvel at using some of my skillets while using them.