Adrianvs

"In the struggle for existence, it is only on those who hang on for ten minutes after all is hopeless, that hope begins to dawn." "There are some desires that are not desirable." "The voice of the special rebels and prophets, recommending discontent, should, as I have said, sound now and then suddenly, like a trumpet. But the voices of the saints and sages, recommending contentment, should sound unceasingly, like the sea." "Great truths can only be forgotten and can never be falsified." "Idolatry is committed, not merely by setting up false gods, but also by setting up fals

Public universities and high schools sponsor religiously exclusive organizations all the time. But that is not really the issue is it? The issue is whether theists have the right to public facilites as atheists do. Merlyn has no problem with public school teachers being paid with public funds to preach pragmatic atheism, but when civic theist groups meet on PUBLIC school property after hours without undo fee, he cries foul. Don't bother, Merlyn. It's not going to change in your lifetime and after that, what really matters, my egoist friend? (This message has been edited by Adr

Wonderous story!

"You should also tell the scouts not to get in his car and explain the danger to them, explain to them that if he leaves you are required by law to report him to the police and to the Scouing office." This goes beyond the "Recognize and report. Period." sutra that you have been repeating, however. Since we have established that the proper recourse in the case of a tired driver is to call the local law enforcement agencies and Scout Executive, what about the cell phone driver? Statistically speaking, the case still holds. MORALLY speaking, do we have an obligation to act as well? Some

RECOGNIZE AND REPORT. PERIOD. "Hello, 911." Yes, this is Robert Smeghead, Assistant Scoutmaster of Troop -5. One of my fellow assistant scoutmasters is extremely tired and is planning on driving his son home tonight. Given his state, he would be endangering himself, his son, and the others on the road." "What is your location?" "Asinine State Park. Youth camping section." "Thank you." "Now what is the Scout Executive's number again..?"

"If you suspect that a crime has been, or is being, committed..." No, I was referring to the case of the fatigued driver, an individual who is statistically as dangerous as a drunk driver. In most places, this itself is not a crime. My questions refer to the cases in which the dangerous behavior of the adult is not criminal or specifically forbidden by BSA rule. It is a moral question, not a legal one. We all have a hesitation in responding to a fatigued driver in the same way that we respond to a drunk one. Of course, the legality of fatigue gives us less options than we have with d

"If I found the person to be half asleep, I believe I would have serious reservations releasing the Scout. But that is quite a leap from having a high BAC. Plus it entertains a certain level subjectivity that may not have the same accuracy or legal ramifications as BAC." Is not our hypothetical or actual assessment of the adult's drunkeness just as subjective as our assessment of his tiredness? There are indeed means to assess BAC, but no one is claiming to have tested them prior to acting. If there are morally necessary responses to a potential driver under the influence of alcohol

"So if a Scout is wearing his Scout shirt and blue jeans, he's not in uniform and should salute the flag by placing his hand over his heart?" I found this to be the most interesting question and it hasn't been answered yet. We know that the field uniform shirt alone (with non-uniform pants) does not constitute a uniform. Does that mean that we should instruct any scout not wearing uniform pants or shorts to place his hand over his heart instead of saluting? I understand the principle here; how does it translate into practice in this instance?

"If your Troop Committee rules that electronic devices are not allowed at camp and includes cellphones in that description, then I cannot understand why you would have the attitude you have. If you don't like the rules of your troop, change them. But, don't encourage your son to disrespect the authority of the Committee and violate them." What if the PLC rules that electronic devices are allowed at camp and other troop functions? What if they rule that cell phones are too distracting for the adult "leaders" to handle? I'm with Eamonn on this one; let the boys run their own program and s

"Adrianvs, science does not speak to the personal beliefs of a scientist." Sure it does. All scientists believe in science. They believe in scientific empiricism. They believe in reason. All of the theoretical physicists that I have know about were mathematicians, not empirical scientists. I agree that a mathematician may also be an idealist. In fact, many of the historical idealists have been mathematicians or placed a high value in mathematics. That has never been the issue. "It only matters that they are willing to assume that the world can be observed and something can b

"Science in not an ideology, it is a way of approaching and solving problem and answering questions. Science organizations dont concern themselves with the religious beliefs of their members or grantees." I did not say that science was an ideology. What I said was that any individual (or group) which uses empirical science is making certain presuppositions. One of these is that the physical world has an objective reality. This notion happens to be contrary to idealism. Idealism is an ideology itself and is an integral part of some religions. Some religions state that there is a God o

Ohhh... I get it now! Atheism is YOUR creed of choice, so there can be no publicly funded organizations that exclude them. But idealism is NOT YOUR creed of choice, so there is no problem funding organizations which exclude them. It's all really so very simple now.. Sure, you can dismiss idealists as fringe crackpots who choose to exclude themselves by virtue of there bizarre beliefs. Just don't be offended when others feel the same way about your negative creed. The point is that it comes down to the principles that you invoke. Even if it were only religous creeds that would n

"I happen to think principals are important." They are. But principles are more important. In your opinion, can organizations which discriminate on the basis of non-theisitc ideology or creed receive federal funding? Every science-based organization is practicing de facto discrimination against idealists (religious or otherwise). If a science based organization made members sign a document stating that they believed in the objective reality of the physical world, then they would be discriminating against idealists in the same way that the BSA supposedly does against atheists. Can

Still at the computer terminals in your anonymous crusade against the BSA, eh Merlyn et al.? You freed yourselves from the shackles of superstition; is this the most interesting thing that you can find to do with your new liberty? What strange ascetics you are.. If I had been a Heathen, I'd have praised the purple vine, My slaves should dig the vineyards, And I would drink the wine. But Merlyn is a Heathen, And his slaves grow lean and grey, That he may drink some tepid milk Exactly twice a day. If I had been a Heathen, I'd have crowned Neaera's curls, And fill

A city set on a hill cannot be hidden.

"...imposing our ideas of peaceful democracy on a people who have little or no interest in these ideas.." Interesting. Very interesting. Are you proposing that they have an interest in absolutism, tyranny, oppression, and violence? If so, how did they get this? Was it imposed at some point in the past? Is it genetic, mein Herr? Is it cultural, Monsieur? It seems like quite the dilemma. One can impose absolutism on a people, but it can never be reversed. I'm sure that the Japanese after WWII would agree with you. I tend not to, however. Everyone has an interest in peaceful self-

Beaver, Have you always been an isolationist, or did you suddenly become one some time during the last president's term?

"That would be the bombshell of the year if it turns out some officer or NCO was staging all this for the purpose of creating (or having the ability to create) such a scandal. I don't think it is likely, but it is certainly possible. I can also see the Army deciding to cover up such an event, since it really doesn't benefit anyone for that to be the explanation." No, it would be the media trying to cover up such an event. I think that the Army would be glad to pin the abuse on the schemes of an anti-war saboteur within its ranks. As I said before, there is no evidence (aside from circum

I'm having trouble accepting the notion that these 6 enlisted acted entirely on their own as well. It first I thought that the main factors involved were the combat and prison conditions, psychology of martial training, and just plain old-fashioned sadistic "blowing off steam." What is giving me pause is the motivation of those who orchestrated all of these events. It does seem to be a set of isolated incidents. They seem to be planned and staged isolated incidents, however. Soldiers were recruited to perform these acts and others were instructed to take pictures. That is more disturbing

Do you believe that US soldiers behave worse towards captured enemy soldiers than capturing forces in most other countries? While no one is defending the actions, we have to keep in mind that these are two groups of people whose jobs prior to the capture were to kill each other. This is a military prison and as FScouter pointed out, there is a long and ugly history of what soldiers do to captured enemies. Compared to the historical (and contemporary) "standards," this is mild. Should every effort be made to prohibit such behavior. Certainly. Is it surprising that something like this happ

Fortunately, I happen to have a copy of the 2004 National Camp Standards for Cub Scout/Boy Scout Residence Camps sitting right here.. :-) -------- Standard Number M-34: (The M designates this standard as mandatory.) The council has engaged a physician licensed to practice medicine as a health supervisor to approve and oversee the health care practices of this camp. Current written operating procedures are approved annually by the licensed physician. The on-site camp health officer is a responsible adult holding a current license or training as required for the position. Ch

"It looks like the far-right-wing version of the black helicopter and tinfoil hat (to hear the alien radio transmissions) crowd." Very interesting.. What do you mean by "far-right?" Isn't that just a meaningless label the likes of which you decry? Hmm..

NJ, You are right. It is difficult to generalize what ALL liberals believe. But since you self-apply the term, please inform me of what it means. You must hold that liberals believe some set of ideas or you would not use the term yourself. What do "liberals" believe? You don't seem to mind generalizing about liberals in positive terms.. Is it really the generalizations that you take issue with? Do you have any generalizations about "conservatives?" If not, then you have no conception of what the word means. All words are labels. Deal.

I find it amusing how liberals suddenly have a great respect for the anti-homosexuality taboo in Arab culture. It's not surprising, however, given that they routinely defend the degradation of women, deliberate murder of innocents, schooling of children for violent crime, and totalitarianism as part of some valid "cultural heritage." The following article provides some good commentary on the issue of prisoner abuse and Arab outrage: http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=13239(This message has been edited by Adrianvs)

The problem is that Merlyn would have the opinions of Rich silence the opinions of everyone else in every other situation. It's not enough that the religious keep their religious talk confined to church buildings and religious services. Religious and theists are expected to shut up whenever nonreligious or atheists show up to visit. I've seen folks at Easter and Christmas masses with their arms crossed and scowls on their faces as they end up hearing "religious blather" when they would rather not. "Why can't those religous just keep to themselves. This is a church for goodness (subjective