Tron

So how do you reconcile your findings against nationals findings?

Ok, makes sense but shouldnt be that way in cubs. In theory each Lion and Tiger den is starting a new Den Leader and soon there after picking up an assistant. When the lead starts to get burned out the assistant and that lead should be able to swap positions. From a committee standpoint at cubs the committee should be rotating to avoid the burnout. Let us not kid ourselves, most of the committee positions are just show up and answer a very narrow range of questions; if you have an experienced CC most of the committee is just breathing oxygen and hopefully learning something in the event that the CC gets hit by a bus.

Ok, makes sense but shouldnt be that way in cubs. In theory each Lion and Tiger den is starting a new Den Leader and soon there after picking up an assistant. When the lead starts to get burned out the assistant and that lead should be able to swap positions. From a committee standpoint at cubs the committee should be rotating to avoid the burnout. Let us not kid ourselves, most of the committee positions are just show up and answer a very narrow range of questions; if you have an experienced CC most of the committee is just breathing oxygen and hopefully learning something in the event that the CC gets hit by a bus.

Some of this is literally set an expectation. Sometimes replacements don't step up because you're not clarifying the unfairness of no one else stepping up. I was wearing multiple hats at a local unit and no longer have kids in it. The COR and I had several succession discussions over the past 7 months or so and I was clear and fair to the unit; I let the COR know that were certain things I was no longer doing; however, I would stay on to help train replacements. It's the CORs primary duty to find adult leaders; it's great to help. I am moving on because I set clear expectations and no one can complain because I am offering to help train my replacement. In the interim the COR is going to have to put on those extra hats which will put pressure on him to get the job done in recruiting a replacement. At the district level it is often the district executive and the council executive that are at fault. The specific fault is the chair of the nominating committee is garbage. Recruiting for the district or council committees cannot be limited to "Does anyone want to nominate anyone? derp!" It has to be a call every unit, visit every unit situation. Every unit needs to be contacted every single year and asked to nominate at least 1 of their scouters to join the district/council committee(s). BTW if you have not figured out my districts whole nominating committee is a dumpster fire.

So my question about the burnout is; burnout directed towards what? Is it overall fatigue? Is it sick of toxic leaders? Is it the 365 cycle of fundraising?

Actually they did. During the NAM presentations the repetitive response to this question was basically "No one see's scouting in the community anymore so they think scouting no longer exists." the response to the why they left seemed to be "bad experience/didn't like the unit, and people don't know they can be a member of any unit not just the one next door/at their school/what they were told".

You have to be careful with this as the new platform is a choose your own adventure type situation. Many of the things we're discussing are still in the rank but there alternate options. The quality of the program is going to fall on the den leaders to make sure they are choosing to do the engaging fun stuff instead of just what is easy for them. The handbook reads like everything is required; however, when you go look at the website there is a bit of wiggle room. The new ranking scales per "story card" which outline indoor vs outdoor, energy level, resources, and time are going to be interesting to see how many lazy den leaders naturally gravitate to the 1 and 2 (low end) prep time/resource requirement story cards (adventure options).

I apologize on behalf of the MBC corps as it sounds like a lot of your issue is that your unit does not understand the MBC role and governance. Just push through, it's worth it. Your council is absolutely correct, being an MBC is a council membership requirement. You have the right to choose to be council wide, district wide, or just specific unit(s); however, it's a council at large membership. Because of that council at large membership you do have to fill out a new (no cost if already registered) membership denoting 2nd/dual membership enrollment and someone from your council will have to review and approve (my council has a made up position literally called the MB Czar that handles this). Restricted MBs may sometimes vary by council but normally they are shooting sports related, diving, climbing, etc... and of course everyone's favorite restricted MB Citizenship in Society. If you are qualified you will not have a problem getting signed off. If you are qualified you might have to endure a stupid meeting or phone call (I basically brow beat the MB Czar over my qualifications to counsel Wilderness Survival). When you go through it just tell yourself "Hey this is a good thing, council doesn't want unqualified know-it-alls teaching some poor scout the wrong thing."

I think a lot of this comes down to the fact that we all need to swim against the current and when we see or hear about dumb people doing dumb things with firearms we need to make sure the council executive is made immediately aware of things. I totally get that criminally speaking the situation was a misdemeanor; the real question is what has Aloha Council done to fix the total lack of firearm safety within their council? Were all of those low functioning judgement volunteers kicked out of the program? Was the camp ranger and staff fired for letting that happen on their watch?

Not required; but part of the rank still, yes. You have whittling for knife safety and you have knots added to the fishing adventure. I am not sure what the complaint is here? If you're running a 12 month program as prescribed you can easily add these adventures and provide the learning experience for the scouts.

I think the presentation is good. I'm focusing on the improved YPT training, I think it was a real BIG statement when Glen Pounder pointed out that a council has had zero YPT reports (including near misses); moving to annual training is a big improvement, partnering with homeland security is a thing, right, there's resources there that Scouting America can use to keep kids safe.

I'm salivating waiting for this. It's going to exactly like climb on safely! A legal chokehold that elevates national from liability and voiding the indemnification clause for leaders who do not have the training and experience an incident. This is directly from climb on safely. "The adult supervisor works cooperatively with the climbing instructor and is responsible for all matters outside of the climbing/rappelling activity. " Climb on safely is not a training course in climbing. Contrary to popular belief it's a sideways acknowledgment from the leader who takes it that if BSA policies are not followed, they get hung out to dry. For the leaders that don't take it, things are just as bad. Ignorance is not a legal defense to liability in court.

The sporting thing; there's an aspect of this compare and contrast that is not being discussed. https://childusa.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Five-Key-Findings-from-the-EAS-7.9.2021-Updated.pdf#:~:text=18.3% (nearly 1 in 5) of elite athletes,minor by a sport official or peer athlete. Because of the decentralized nature of sports, schools, clubs, etc ... there's no great big target with a big pocket of money (when comparing to BSA). So for 30 years there are local discussion when a pedo coach or physically abusive coach or exclusionary club gets caught doing the wrong thing; however, there has never been a national discussion about this. Contrast that with national media constantly on BSA about the lawsuits, accusations, and most recently the settlement and bankruptcy. Perception is reality; some parents falsely think their kids are safer in sports.

Lot of wrong information about that second discussion with the SM about the MB. Page 41 of the GTA states that the 2nd discussion with the SM is supposed to be about the scouts experience, not a retest. As a SM you're signing the blue card not as an approval or denial, but acknowledging that the adult association of the discussion has taken place.

Tradition. There are a lot of people who were in scouting as a youth and want their kids in it to share the tradition. Americana. There are people drawn to it from the aspect that is iconic and part of the overall American experience. Oath & Law. People are drawn to the oath and law. There is a certain thing about wanting your kids practicing certain principals/ideals and being around other kids who are also practicing those principals and ideals. Outdoors. There are youth and adults who want their kids to learn outdoors skills.

Because unit leaders are not supposed to be trained to supervise; BSA leaders are either trained and certified for shooting sports or they are completely unqualified, there is no middle ground. The liability around shooting sports is so risky that there is no room for the arm chair supervisors of the other BSA programs.

This is why there needs to be a doctrinal pathway to complain to district/council advancement about bad leaders adding to the requirements; that SM is going rogue. I see what you're saying, I think it's more of someone without guidance trying to get trained and figuring this out is facing a huge uphill struggle. On the other hand there's something like this: There's a parent in my unit that said he won't do the adult training unless he's paid to do it. We're trying to spoon feed the adult training and everything that goes with it to him and we can't get him to buy in. For sports it's definitely more that just showing up with a couple soccer balls. My daughter is in soccer right now(school team). We had a $200 registration fee, uniform/jersey deposit of $20 (will have to pay full if uniform is damaged in any way). $40 shorts, $10 a pair special socks, $100 outdoor cleats, $100 indoor cleats, $40 for recommended/pseudo required specific shin guards, they practice at the school field but play home matches at private field 30 miles from my house; the nearest away game has been 35 miles away, they play 3 matches a week(a mix of conference and non conference matches). We're currently in month 3 of the 4 month season. She's on the varsity team and we're expected to participate in club play (current estimate is cheapest league is $290 registration with regional travel each weekend) in the offseason and do soccer camps on top of that if she wants to maintain her varsity position and have a chance of starting in the future (she's a freshman).

LOL, he says they have doubled in size while BSA has steeply lost members. Their self reporting that they have 60k members right now, total, nationwide. Trail Life is a joke.

BSA has evaluations. https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/Outdoor Program/Shooting Sports/430-065_WB.pdf

This is where we are disconnecting on this issue. In my council there are no BSA approved clubs. This is why I see it differently than you; my council already does not have this, none of the ranges and clubs in my area can pass the BSA inspection.

My take on this is based on what I see in my area; member-only clubs in my area have bars on premise and allow smoking. The commercial ranges do not allow either. Could that be a national trend that BSA is looking at?

That depends on the adult leadership. Far too many SM are not qualified outdoorsmen, so they don't know what they should be mentoring the PLC towards. Far too many SM are lazy. I'll pick on my troops SM; we never set up a dining fly to such a degree that the unit commissioner asked me about it; my response was something along "SM doesn't know how to do it, and his ego is so big he can't be helped". This is sort of what is supposed to be happening if you take the time to read all of the literature from national. When you read all of the adult guides, the program features guides, the field guide, the scout handbook, the guide to advancement, etc ... a lot of reading, this is the big picture that the national wants; I know of only a handful of units that actually follow nationals recommendation that you have 12 outings/campouts a year, and that the meetings between outings are for developing the skills the PLC believes the troop will need on those outings. National has been sort of pushing what you're talking about Matt, they've been pushing this since about 2011.

False, units are mandated to participate in YPT and adult training. Go read your adult registration form. If you can't figure out how to do it online you are mandated to go in person. Furthermore, though never enforced, councils can mandate that you do your adult leader training in person (which is why when you run a unit adult training report there is that weird little column that shows mandatory in person training but does not ding you as untrained if you completed the online version). Try again. Every time units decide to not participate in their local council they are weakening the council, they are breaking down the scouting community. Camporees have less energy from less units/scouts, klondikes have less competition, round-tables have less value when fewer people are bringing their knowledge and experience to the table. You are correct, and it's funny how this unit has higher costs because they are going out of council. By refusing to participate in the council of registry they have become a cash cow for the neighboring council. Man it sure is thrifty when that unit pays all those out-of-council fees in neighboring councils.

A lot of good points, though I think I want to die on this sporting hill. I think a lot of parents pull their kids from scouting to do sports thinking their kid is something special athletically. I had a meeting with a parent at the troop last night, she raised concern that we're losing a PL for the summer to some club baseball team and he might not come back. I told her it's not likely to work out for the kid; he's in 8th grade, he's like only 5ft tall, 90lbs soaking wet, both parents are sub 6fters and fat. Really what it might be is that scouting is too nice; I deal with some of these coaches with my own kids and it's a joke the yarns they spin to recruit kids. What if scouting pushed the hard sell on parents, think along the lines of these dingleberry baseball coaches "You're kids got it, with my mentoring he'll get in shape, learn how to problem solve, have a bunch of fun, learn how to survive in the outdoors, get his eagle scout, and then from there every top end business school and military academy in the nation will want him! rabble rabble rabble". Do you think we can get carve out on the scout is trustworthy for this?

Technically declining. 2020 to 2023 had a little bump but basically is level, and comparing modern counts to the BSA peak membership in 1970 ... well looks like 2, almost 3 times the single parent households.