johnsch322

I have heard others from the beginning saying that the plan is unconfirmable.

Now that it has been over 90 days that we have been waiting for confirmation. Why do you all think that the hasn't been confirmed?

I also believe there should be no double dip. The firms you are talking about belong to the coalition and they are not presently billing hourly instead there are millions that BSA has agreed to pay them if the plan is approved. This was in order to get there yes endorsement on the plan which kind of sounds like bribery to me.

It is my opinion that BSA would not have spent anywhere near $185M if they had chosen to have National only in the bankruptcy. How many of those millions were spent in mediation with insurance companies, LC's and CO's? How much was spent in valuations of LC's properties etc. etc.? BSA National and/or their lawyers made this into a bigger boondoggle than it needed to be trying to salvage as many of their business relationships as they could.

I am going to try to keep this response as scout like as possible...but I just might cross that line so my apologies to moderators if I do. @skeptic you are wrong on so many levels. The trauma of CSA cannot in anyone's world be compared to the little childhood traumas that all of have endured. Childhood Sexual Abuse changes the course of one life. It deprives you of being able to deal with life's smaller problems. It causes depression, anxiety, drug addiction, alcohol addiction, and impulse control. It causes homophobia, the ability to have normal to have normal relationships and it can lead to victims victimizing others. youth who have been traumatized by CSA have a higher rate of criminal behavior. In the worst case it causes one to take their own life. Some of us have been luckier than others, one of them being myself. I was able to compartmentalize what happened to myself, yet I was unaware of what devastating effects it was even having on my life. Not all of us have been so lucky. I believe I have never reached my full potential as a human being because of one night where I was abused by two different men. I have endured multiple other traumas in my life. My brother was involved in a murder/suicide (he killed his wife and himself. I suffered a Traumatic Brain Injury while serving my country. On a flight from JFK to Philadelphia the little turboprop I was in got to close to the jet wash of a jumbo liner which caused us the plane I was in to go 45 degrees and I watched and screamed as I could see the river coming closer as we plummeted. Luckily the pilot got control back at about 300 feet. I was a front seat passenger on the freeway in a vehicle when a tire, wheel and axle crashed thru the windshield without touching the ground. I watched it come down when it was about 100 feet in the air. From all of these incidents I have had nightmares, fear of flying (next flight I was on had engine issues and we had to do an emergency landing), Trash in the air while still causes me panic but thank god it is not as it used to be. What I am trying to get at is all of these other traumas never affected me to anywhere near the degree as the sexual assault against my body. Nothing has changed my life as much as that incident did. Yes when you talk about the trauma of teasing and charred electrical outlets and imply that they are comparable to CSA I and many others will take umbrage. Especially when that same person keeps saying that compensating victims is taking away from the youth of today. And thank you for wishing me good luck in dealing with my personal issues but frankly it takes more than good luck. It takes a therapist, a psychiatrist and a daily dose of Prozac and for some money for all of that plus psychiatric hospital care. It also took a surgeon to repair physical damage Oh yes and by the way even the Prozac causes issues such as constant dry mouth, sleep issues.

I do not find my comment misguided at all. You have been in multiple discussions where you downplay Child Sexual Abuse, the reporting of, the handling by authorities and families and now you are trying to make case for teasing and sticking bobby pins into electrical outlets to being equivalent to the effects of Child Sexual Abuse. I can assure as someone who was teased by a sibling and was told by my parents of charring electrical outlets by various means that the trauma of my sexual abuse has left far bigger scars and caused much issues in my life than a compulsion to tell people about kid proofing homes.

I hope with all my heart that you are not comparing being raped by another human being to putting a bobby pin into a socket or that understanding what happened will make the trauma go away like yours did from a teasing brother.

Please read the summation of the first study (published in 1990). The sexually abused men were significantly more likely to have manifested compulsive behaviors such as chemical addiction and abuse, sexual acting out, compulsive spending, compulsive overworking, and compulsive overeating. They were more likely to have had problems with truancy in school and later to have been involved in criminal behavior. Overall, the victims were more psychologically disturbed than the nonvictims. 3 figures, 5 tables, and 38 references

Sexual Abuse of Boys: A Study of the Long-Term Psychological Effects (From The Sexually Abused Male: Prevalence, Im Child Abuse—A History | Encyclopedia.com Federal Legislation against Child Abuse In 1974 Congress passed the Child Abuse Prevention and Treatment Act (CAPTA; Public Law 93-247). The law stated: [Child abuse and neglect refer to] the physical or mental injury, sexual abuse, negligent treatment or maltreatment of a child under age eighteen, or the age specified by the child protection law of the state in question, by a person who is responsible for the child's welfare under circumstances which indicate the child's health or welfare is harmed or threatened thereby, as determined in accordance with regulations prescribed by the Secretary of Health, Education, and Welfare. pact, and Treatment, V 1, P 137-152, 1990, Mic Hunter, ed. -- NCJ-128859) | Office of Justice Programs (ojp.gov)

@fred8033you were not part of the group that I was commenting on. I believe in your willingness to look at everything from a broad perspective and your sincerity. My apologies if you felt this was directed to you.

There are those on this forum that are skeptics when it comes to facts. They tell us that the IV files are full of innuendo and hearsay and that the info should have never been published. I bet dollars to donuts that the skeptics never read the files or choose to disregard what their own organization kept files on.

Delays only take trust money that would come from BSA National which is not the largest component. Survivors at some point of time (to be determined) will still get paid (amount to be determined).

Nor did anyone within the BSA advise you to sue. The BSA knew that you could since they had a legal team and insurance coverage in case you did. Of course if you or your parents were aware of that and took that path it would have cost the BSA money (increased insurance and legal costs and possibly less in donations).You could have used that money for counseling, medical issues and other things that arose from your CSA. Also this being the late 90's when you were molested the effects of the molestation were well known at the time so no one can say it was how things were.

One major thing I can't get out of my mind is what was ever done for the victims? I have not found any evidence of the BSA extending a helping hand to those who were damaged while in the care of the BSA. Does anyone have any knowledge of what the policy to victims were?

You are correct. Not everyone was covering up crimes or hiding knowledge in confidential files. CSA was illegal, immoral and was punishable in the 40's, 50's, 60's 70's and up. Many men including scouters went to prison for CSA. The IV files have clippings and arrest reports of such scouters. After reading many files what impression I have is that if the parents went to the police first there was a higher probability of arrest and conviction vs if parents went to BSA authorities first.

In one letter it mentions no newspaper publicity, In another it says committee worked hard to keep away publicity for victims and BSA. from the tone I would say that the committee (BSA) did not want the publicity. PS page 4 is missing...I wonder what that mentioned. Something else is also curious there are three perpetrators mentioned.

I did not read this in the IV files, but you piqued my curiosity and read a couple that were not my own. I came across this gem and I quote from Scout Executive James E Houck "From the date this was found out, there has been no contact made by the three men to the boys to my knowledge. The committee worked hard to overcome this situation and to keep it from getting to much publicity both for the boys and for scouting. They were able to get the services of a State Trooper, John Simms, who obtained the rank of Eagle" I may not be the smartest man but the fact that a committee worked hard to contain publicity and recruited a State Trooper to help speaks volumes about concealment. We can't let the public at large know what is happening.

It seems I read from someone posting that once an incident from a local council was reported to National that all records of the incident were to be destroyed (including correspondence) at the local level. Tried to find the post does anyone know if this was true?

The one consistent theme that I have seen from the BSA is the notion that there is nothing to see here, deflect, deny and minimize. Certain aspects of the above can also be seen thru the bankruptcy and from current members.

I am amazed that no one talked to you. I also was not asked and one of my perpetrators was in the IV files and was suspected of having 11 plus victims.

There was a court order and they fought it all the way to the Oregon Supreme Court. I am not a lawyer either.

Yes it is sad that the BSA did what they did (concealment). I am glad you agree with me @skeptic

The BSA is in the mess that they are because of rampant Child Sex Abuse that they kept away from the public i.e. withheld/concealed. Only two things could have kept BSA from this issue, 1. no CSA (not probable) 2 not concealing the records. It is not the lawyers fault, the parents fault nor the survivors fault. Nor was it was poor judgement in the society of the day it happened (concealment) and no one is trying to revision history except those who constantly float the blame to others or to a society at whole.

If it was not concealment than why did it take an order from the Oregon State Supreme Court to make the IV files available to those outside of the BSA?

The anger I feel as a survivor is not hatred, but my anger is at various people (my perpetrators') the organization that recruited my perpetrators knew there was a good chance I had been abused (BSA) and chose not to offer help, the bankruptcy itself where it seems certain entities are downplaying the value of my claim. I honestly feel more hate is directed at myself and my fellow survivors from active BSA adults who want to mitigate what happened and are worried more about what assets the BSA and LC's may have post bankruptcy then they care about what happened. I feel that there must be a ruling on the confirmation soon so we can can get closer to more certainty for both survivors and for members of the BSA. This cannot happen soon enough.