yknot

I would say that it's likely that some pedophiles are able to compartmentalize and have more normal relationships with children that are not suitable targets for one reason or another much the same way serial killers and other psychopaths do. Ted Bundy had a long time girlfriend. The BTK killer had a family, yet he killed a family. I would also say that those other relationships are also part of the pathology because the perpetrator uses them to help hide or cloak his or her true nature and intentions. Pedophiles are frequently cited by incredulous bystanders as someone who seemed to love chil

Do you have to provide a COI to meet in any of those places?

So true. Few understand how BSA works and few people get involved in anything outside of their kid or unit. I have been reporting to the units I'm involved with about some of these developments and they are humorously dismissive of it. They believe National and what they have been hearing from Council and can't envision anything happening to scouting.

I sit in the middle of three councils and get all their communications. They have all been saying that the National case won't affect local scouting and that funds raised would stay with the councils. A couple of them did informational sessions around the time of the filing and said something similar -- that there were a handful of cases they were concerned about. To be fair, the one council was proactive. They intended to sign on and had mapped out a plan as to how they could make what they thought to be a substantial and generous contribution if it came to that and still survive. They felt i

I understand what you are saying but almost all of us on this forum are looking at things from our scouting perspective when that is not the perspective that counts. We're different from a lot of volunteer programs because, fair or not, virtually no one trusts us and the coming headlines are only going to make that worse. We have to be like Cesar's wife.

What this thread illustrates for me is that it's clear that BSA's YP program is pretty problematic. I don't know if analyzing the program and any known statistics is part of the bankruptcy/reorganization process but any critic could easily prove that it's ineffective, inconsistent, and haphazardly applied. As important, if BSA does survive bankruptcy in some ways and continues to use a similar YP program without fixing it, there are bound to be more cases.

Can I just clarify, are you talking about if the scout is out running by himself without two leaders present or are you talking about if he is running with a scout buddy without two leaders present? Or both? Also, who do you think would be liable if a scout went out for a run without supervision or if two scouts decided to go on a run together without supervision? Would it be the SM and the Committee or the MB Counselor? Finally, in your unit, how does this policy get discussed? If you are the SM, do you tell your unit that scouts cannot independently work on MB or rank requirements without tw

Neither my Council nor any of the three Councils near me follows your definition of a scout activity. Individual scouts routinely pursue achievements and MB components on their own. They are also free to buddy up with a friend from the same patrol, a different one, another troop, etc., to work on advancement. If boy A jogs down the street to meet boy B to go for a run for Personal Fitness, they do not schedule it with the SM and two leaders do not trail them down the road during the run.

OK, well in my Council we can't do that. It's two deep at all times. We send four adults to summer camp. Under that definition, anything a scout is doing is then a scouting activity. A scout attends a town council meeting for Citizenship in the Community would then require two adult leaders to attend with him. Do your units send two leaders to town council meetings with scouts that are working on that merit badge?

Also, just to answer the second part. I know scouts leave scouting because it's more fun to do things without it but it's not just having two adults along that makes it a drag. Many components of the program, from the uniforms that a lot of kids don't like to the homework like aspects of many of the rank requirements and badges to the long boring meetings and ceremonies also contribute to that. It's not just because of YP. That's my point. I understand it's part of it, but it's not the only reason why scouts is losing kids. and if we continue to get stuck on that like a canoe on a dry river be

Is that for real, lol? Is there an actual reference for that in YP or G2SS? I know I am not supposed to be the lone adult with any youth as you note but I have never heard that kids can't ever do anything together with a friend in a non patrol group to work on requirements and have it count. Scouts in our units do it all the time. For example, the Cycling MB clearly states use the BSA buddy system and it's not unusual for older scouts to meet up for a ride and work on this. Friends working on Personal Fitness at the same time will meet up for runs without towing two adults in their wake.

So you are saying that once a kid joins scouts, he can no longer call up a scout friend and say 'let's go on a hike' unless two leaders accompany them? This is news to me, but if so, then yes I would say adult supervision is overdone, because a basketball team member can definitely call up a teammate and say 'let's go shoot some hoops' without having coaching staff accompany them. However, I don't think that's the case. If you are saying having adults involved is a demotivator for kids, that is also wrong, because plenty of kid activities have some degree of adult supervision. I am also

I don't know what it is like in your state but in my state we've had the best luck with the pharmacy program at CVS, Rite Aid, etc. CVS in particular seems to drop vaccine appointments at 4 a.m., 5 a.m., 5:30 a.m. We've been able to get multiple vaccine appointments for ourselves and others this way. I keep hearing people say they started checking early in the a.m. but in our neck of the woods even 6 a.m. can be too late to grab one. Just FYI for your scouter friends. I'm getting my second Moderna today. Hoping I'm functional tomorrow. Got a lot to do...

Interestingly, elephants and a growing irrelevance to what audiences of today seek eventually brought about their bankruptcy.

That's interesting. To me though this means the BSA structure is organized around the wrong customer, because of course it has to be the scout. For example, Little League isn't structured around meeting the needs of local ball clubs, it's structured around meeting the needs of the players. It's rules are the rules, and the local clubs follow them. If a ball club has a hard time finding umpires or doesn't like using them, it doesn't get to still run accredited games just because they want to run their own program. Little League enforces its rules in order to provide a comparable experience for

A scout doesn't need an adult to call up a couple buddies and go for a hike, or go online to order something, or go to the scout store and buy whatever he needs to do a merit badge or requirement either. I'm not sure what you are talking about. There's no difference. Yes, high school captain's practices are one situation where kids are more on their own but even then they really aren't and that is hardly the norm for the millions of kids in sports. Most of the time there are multiple coaches, officials, parents involved in everything. And 4-H? I never did anything with less than two leaders ar

You could say that's due to YPT. However, you could also argue that's due to a host of other reasons like changing demographics, a rise in other youth activities, and BSA's own ham fisted reactions to emerging social issues. It could also be because of the nonstop marketing of advancement to Eagle over outdoor fun. A lot of older kids drop out once they Eagle or because they are not into advancement. I don't see how adult involvement is the deterrent because then how do you explain why things like sports, robotics or 4-H are so popular. If BSA hadn't implemented YP measures, we probably

True. But that is ancient history. Some version of two deep has been around since the 1980s. It predates me. Scouting was able to function fairly well for more than 40 years with it. I've never known scouting that wasn't two deep, but I've still seen plenty of units that are almost completely scout led. No, they can't go off and do Lord of the Flies in the woods, but they can still be fairly independent. It seems like a useless point to keep grumbling about. It's not like it's going to go away. It's not like it's going to become less restrictive. It's very likely that some additional requireme

I think we minimize YP at our peril. All the quandaries outlined here are why many critics claim BSA should not exist -- because it can't keep youth safe. I also don't understand the complaint that YP ruined scouting. What's the big deal about having at least two adults along and that they be trained. I think it's more G2SS that has clipped wings.

I think it would be easy enough to tie YPT to the recharter date for all perhaps with the caveat that you don't have to renew that first year if you've taken the training within the past six months. A lot of memberships, etc., have paperwork that has to be refiled by an annual date. Obviously, BSA needs to up the IT end.

That's what I thought. Surprised there are Councils that can get around it, but that would speak to how serious BSA is or is not about YPT. I think annual makes the most sense. However, that's another area where the BSA is not serious enough because a significant number of people had extreme difficulty accessing and completing the online training. It also needs to streamlined so that it is easier for people to take in areas where internet access is limited. I tried for two months to complete it and finally gave up since I was not being rechartered anyway. I had simply wanted to maintain it bec

I'm confused. Maybe it's just our council, but we cannot recharter unless everyone on the charter has a current YPT through the coming year. It will get kicked back. At the unit level, we further require every parent to have YPT or we will not accept registration. I would not hold us up as any great example though. There is a disturbing history of leadership not taking YPT or G2SS all that seriously. But at least everyone has been through the training. Parents have to take the training in order for them to understand the rules.

I don't think that's true. Otherwise we'd have 150,000 claims filed. Claims dropped once the BSA started putting YP measures in place although certainly plenty of abuse cases still occurred.

Social media is where it's at to reach families today. In our area, one Troop is up while a few others are slightly down. Packs have been hard hit though. A lot is going to depend on what happens with Covid. Lots of places opening up despite the fact that we've stalled at a pretty high level of community transmission. I just hope it doesn't come back around to bite us and ruin the spring and summer with another surge after Easter and Spring Break.

STOPit is utilized by a number of school districts in my area. Some have been hesitant to sign on with it for those reasons -- the implementation is not perfect. However, it does give kids an access point and a voice. It's been out several years now and the districts keep renewing it so it can't be that useless. I just used that as an example though. More than any specific app, there doesn't seem to be a clear communications channel for scouts to self report in BSA and given the history and the scope of the issue, I think it's a missing piece. All I've ever seen is "tell a trusted adult" or la