yknot

That is exactly the kind of approach that is needed. I don't see where the system worked here other than at the most minimal level.

How is this remotely relevant to scouting? We're talking about kids who are supposed to be in a protected, supervised scout camp operating under the gold standard of youth protection in 2021. The more interesting question to me is how did this person manage to set up the camera. Didn't anyone notice there was an adult hanging out in the kids bathroom or during kids hours? And the really dismaying part, according to other accounts I have read, is that he recorded scouts engaging in sexual activity in the bathroom. What parent will want to send their kid to that kind of camp?

No BSA has been coasting on that perception for decades and that's why so many COs never thought twice about signing that recharter agreement that the nice scout person brought to them once a year. The bankruptcy case, depending on what happens with the COs, really has the potential to completely change that. If BSA had taken a fraction of what it spent on Summit and invested it in becoming the Mossad of Youth Protection, we likely wouldn't be here today. They had the data. They had the money. They had the opportunity and compelling need but chose to focus elsewhere.

Anything can happen anywhere but I haven't noticed climbing wall gyms being sued en masse for rampant cases of child sexual abuse. Or canoe outfitters. Or shooting ranges. The waivers for those activities generally match the expected risks.

Well, they are not at risk for that on the climbing wall. Not in the canoe. Not on the shooting range, etc., etc. But back at camp they are. Scouting is presented as a physical and adventure activity by BSA. Parents are thinking of broken bones and cracked heads, not rape and molestation, but that's a risk you say they should accept. If so, BSA should spell that out on the waivers.

One positive result that could come out of the BSA bankruptcy is if it sparks a broader conversation on CSA in society. There are scattered CSA statistics and studies but they compare apples to rocks to feathers. It's hard to draw conclusions about what kinds of settings are most risky and what prevention works other than under the broadest of generalities. I think that might come, but it would be more likely after the BSA process, not as part of it.

It is a societal problem. Trying to deflect and exonerate yourself by pointing that out, however, isn't at all useful. BSA is the organization that has been identified in lawsuits as having a significant issue. BSA has to do and be better. Simply doing a better job of living up to its own advertised and aggressively promoted oaths and laws would be a start. BSA has access to decades of its own internal data that it could be using to produce incident reports that could inform leaders when, why, where, and how incidents of CSA are occurring. There is no transparency however. And regardless of what you want to argue about where else CSA occurs, the reality is that it is BSA that has the public perception problem. As long as egregious cases like the one this month in Missouri keep occuring, BSA is going to have an issue. Being angry that others are "getting away with it" because they are not BSA doesn't serve any purpose.

I wish you patience and strength of spirit. The knot orientation alone gives me a headache.

It's not lack of scouting experience that is the problem it is lack of common sense and leadership ability. Plenty of great scouters have been born in the camp fire of just jumping in feet first when no one else would. I don't know why but scouting seems to attract a lot of people with big egos, big mouths, big opinions and little common sense. It's the other ones who make putting up with those kind worth it.

Yes, I'm aware of that form obviously. What I am saying it that nowhere on that form does it say your child is at risk of being sexually abused while in scouting. That's what I'm talking about.

The system didn't work if it keeps happening. Parents aren't looking at this and thinking, hey, I'm OK if my kid is within the percentage of scouters who are victimized, they are thinking Holy Cow scouting still can't get it's act together despite all that has happened. I don't want that to be my kid. There may be a statistical defense for CSA cases still occuring in scouting but it is meaningless and irrelevant in the face of the visceral emotional response.

I hear you but we've been saying that scouting is so much better at YP than the public swimming pools. locker rooms, etc. What we need to be saying is that we can't protect your kids any better here than anywhere else. Our YP is good but your kids could still be victimized. BSA is at this moment trying to market safety which is something we can't provide. Where is the waiver, like the ones you sign at the climbing wall or the tubing outfitter or wherever, that says scouting is an inherently risky activity when it comes to youth protection and you as the parent accept those risks? And apart from all that, look at this report. We are in the middle of a bankruptcy because of CSA. That guy is wearing a boy scout t shirt espousing On My Honor for his perp shot. The irony cannot be lost on you. If the wrong (right?) media outlet picks up on this, it could be a meme to end all memes for scouting. If AIS has a PR arm, they will make hay with this. I think we have to hope that BSA has become so irrelevant, that most media don't even notice it and pick it up.

Ugh. This is why Kosnoff might be right. If this kind of thing is still happening despite gold standard YP, perhaps BSA should not be trusted with children. This isn't something that kind of happened sort of tangential to scouting but right in a summer camp under the noses ofprobably dozens of other adults, If we can't keep kids safe there, where can scouting keep them safe?

"Ryan, some things in here don't react well to bullets." ALEC BALDWIN, as Jack Ryan, quoting SEAN CONNERY, as Capt. Ramius. Things could indeed get very messy.

Ka Boom. What does this mean for folks in the weeds? More 'keep your head down and keep going' for another couple months? Kids trying to get to Eagle? Victims hoping for some kind of resolution?

Nothing specific to scouts but staff and, in particular, lifeguards have been lacking. A number of camps/swim clubs/recreational parks haven't been able to open their pools/beaches or have had limited hours. There are also a number of surprising shortages. Most people know about institutional foods, largely because of missing ingredients, but some resident camps that needed mattresses and linens weren't able to get them. A lot of mattress/linen manufacturers converted over to making masks and are still getting back online. Camps that rely on busing can't get buses fixed because parts are unavailable, etc. It's been a tough summer for many.

I'm not clear how insurance will play into that. If BSA is still able to provide insurance and it is affordable and adequate, perhaps a parent CO group wouldn't need additional liability insurance? However if something happens you know the Parents Of CO would be named in any lawsuit. Would you gamble your house on BSA at this point? There are insurers who work just with people who start up sports teams but I'm not aware of any entity that does that with scouting.

Pretty much all the churches are doing this. For units that had a very close relationship with a sponsoring chartered org, it will be more difficult, but the reality for many is that this facilities use agreement will simply formalize the already existing status quo. Many COs, if not most, merely provide space and benign support. If you've had more, you've been very lucky and I'm sad for you. For most of us, it's a yawn.

It's worded a little differently in my state -- should not charter/recharter prior to December 31, 2021 -- but I guess the meaning is essentially the same...?

We've been discussing this somewhere else, too, although I can't remember where. Our state conference is telling Methodist churches not to charter or recharter prior to Dec. 31 as they are investigating what to do. It appears they will simply shift to the facilities use agreement although I found it interesting that the wording seems to have changed slightly over the past few weeks. Instead of saying sign the facilities agreement instead of recharter, they now seem to be saying don't do anything at all just yet.

I think most people do but remember these kids can be 8 to 12 when they get their first period, often unexpectedly. This is not a situation where you say, oh well, you forgot to pack lunch, go hungry and you'll learn for next time.

It's an easy rewrite: Bless our Moms and bless our Dads... Moms and Dads, you should know... Then it includes anyone who just has a mom or a dad or plural of both. Don't know what to do about kids who are being raised by grandparents, other relatives, or guardians, but this would make it more inclusive. The supplies issue is a miss. I'm sure they are at the health office but since it's not a medical problem, you should just be able to just buy them in the store. And although it is not a medical problem it is a good idea to add some to the list for the camp first aid box.

The loss of these properties is tragic from a historic, legacy, and conservation standpoint although I get the economic realities. I so hope many of them can remain undeveloped and in some kind of public or resort use.

I had worked a lot with kids as a teen and young adult and then sort of took a hiatus until my own kids came along. It was a break of maybe 10 years. In that time, the world went from touch to no touch.

We have some patrols who use them a lot. Not all, but some. They have a group chat or text and instead of using meeting time to organize campouts, etc., they prefer to do it that way. They can order food, have it shipped or ready for pick up, pay each other via Venmo or whatever they are using. It can be efficient and independent. Don't assume they're all doing Reface or whatever. Well, most of the time they are, but not always.