Jump to content

Treflienne

Members
  • Content Count

    385
  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    5

Everything posted by Treflienne

  1. Treflienne

    When was 4th Aim added?

    As a new scouter, I found the Aims and Methods helpful as a summary of the current focus of BSA. Yes @qwazse the 3 aims are mostly a restatment of what is in the oath. But (as an outsider) I wanted to know whether the oath was regarded as just a historical relic or whether it was really still emphasized. And really, the aims of citizenship and character development (and even fitness) go back to the beginning, to Baden-Powell. Scouting for Boys, p 337 "Peace Scouting is suggested as an attractive means towards developing character and good citizenship" Aids to Scoutmastership, p21 "The Aim of Scout training is to improve the standard of our future citizenhood, expecially in Character and Health; to replace Self with Service, to make the lads individually efficient, orally and physically, with the object of using that efficiency for service for their fellow-men" And as far as enumerating the methods, it can be a helpful reminder that, for example, the Outdoors is a method not an aim. We are not primarily motivated by producing excellent outdoorsmen, but rather using the outdoors to produce excellent citizens. I did find it a bit jarring when I learned that "Leadership" had also been promoted to an aim.
  2. Treflienne

    Scouts BSA implementation for girl troops

    Is there any better way? Alternatives I have seen are: storing everying in a trailer parked at a different location than your meeting place, and storing everything in someone's garage. Both seem worse.
  3. Treflienne

    Scouts BSA implementation for girl troops

    I agree about patrols having their own gear and being responsible for it. But why not put a wolf on it? or a cobra?
  4. Treflienne

    Scouts BSA implementation for girl troops

    Not necessarily. None of our girls had brothers already in our linked troop. (Several had brothers in several other troops, one of these brothers has since switched to our linked troop.) I forsee more boy-girl sibling pairs in the two troops in the future, as more kids come up from cubs.
  5. Treflienne

    Great Examples of Girl Troop Successes

    Assuming that these experienced parents will continue volunteering, it sounds like mostly what you need is more girls -- who will likely come with inexperienced but willing to help out parents. Anecdotes are just that -- but in our troop we have no Venturers, no highschoolers, and no crossovers from cub scouts. Only 6th-8th graders. (Our area did not have early-adopter cub packs.) And yes, about half the girls in the troop are there because they were invited by a friend who was already planning to join the troop. If you want to be sure that the new local girls' troop is conveniently at your CO (and not in the next town) you might not want to wait a year and a half. Do any of the Cub Scouts or Boy Scouts have sisters (age 11 and up) interested in scouts? Has anyone asked? (All the troops/packs in our school district did this for us, and yes it turned up girls.) And if the interested 11-14-year old girls only have dads willing to camp, and not moms willing to camp, you could consider double-registering with the new girls troop, and occasionally camping with them.
  6. Treflienne

    Great Examples of Girl Troop Successes

    Does that mean they'll be crossing over to scouts in two years time? Hopefully by then there will already be a troop going that they can join. Consider critical mass. Are there other girls troops starting in your town or school district? It might make sense to join with them instead of getting another new troop going. (Or maybe there will be enough interested girls for another new troop.) About this "stated commitment to start a linked female troop". What is backing this statement? General goodwill? A willingness on the part of the troop committee to help with the administration of the new troop? Experienced scouters with daughters who want to be scouts? A daughter who really wants to be a scout can be *very* motivating to an adult to put the time into volunteering.
  7. Treflienne

    Scouts BSA implementation for girl troops

    We were caught by surprise by the requirement that all the committee members submit a new adult application to be on the committee for the "linked" troop. As things now stand, some committee members are registered as committee members for both troops, some just for the girls, and some just for the boys. (Why? because of the paperwork hassle.) The committee (committees?) does (do?) meet as a single entitiy with a single meeting each month. I suppose if it ever came down to a vote on a contentious issue it might matter who was registered for which troop. I agree. Maybe the BSA can improve their application process in the future.
  8. Treflienne

    When was 4th Aim added?

    Also the online training at my.scouting.org was still listing only three aims of scouting as of spring 2018 when I took the training.
  9. Treflienne

    When was 4th Aim added?

    The 2017 printing of the Troop Leader Guidebook (which BSA was still selling in 2018) lists only the three aims, not including leadership.
  10. The Girls' Guides and Journeys books are available to anyone willing to shell out enough money at a girl scout shop. (Or at your local library). But worse are some of the plans for, for example, how to do the Junior Camper Badge in two meetings without ever going camping. See Junior Planning Guide | Girl Scouts River Valleys Volunteers and in particular the documents it links to such as Camper Activity Plan 1 and Camper Activity Plan 2 Admittedly this is from a council website, not from national, but since I am not currently a junior girl scout leader I cannot see what national has in the volunteer toolkit for the Camper Activity Plan 1 and the Camper Activity Plan 2. It might be truly embarassing to GSUSA to see these compared side by side with BSA materials. I found it frustrating when local G.S. leaders cut corners on badge requirements. I found it even more frustrating when our local council set a bad example by doing similarly at council sponsored events. But when I realized that national was encouraging this behavior, I lamented the direction that GSUSA was going. Then came the news (Oct 2017) that BSA would soon be admitting girls into Boy Scouting. Yup. My daughter, back in October 2017, picked up a recent Boy Scout handbook, and began comparing it with the current Cadette materials (and with old Girl Scout books from the 1920's) and told me that this (Boy Scouts) was what she wanted to do. I have certainly recommended to people wondering about the differences between the two organizations that they compare the published program materials.
  11. Treflienne

    When To Elect SPL in Brand New Units?

    We have a one-patrol troop. PL and APL but no SPL or APSL. Initial terms of office were for three months. Next elections in May. The scouts did dole out most of the standard positions of responsibility. Some of the scouts are growing into their roles. (The instructor is enthusiastically studying the scouts BSA handbook so she can teach the others.) Some of the roles we probably should not have had. (The librarian has nothing to do yet because the troop owns no books -- but since no one is first class yet, no one is getting advancment credit for a bogus job.) The scouts may want to organize things a bit differently next time. (For example, split the quartermaster job into two, since it is large.) For a one-patrol troop, should we have both a PL and an SPL for summer camp? Or can the PL fill in for the non-existent SPL when the summer camp has a task for the troop SPL?
  12. Non-disclosure of what? the contents of the volunteer toolkit? In my service unit, there seems to be continuous attrition from about 3rd to 6th grades. Some troops hold together long enough for the girls to transition into the "older girl" troop (A local 6th-12th grade troop) but others troops just fold leaving their girls without a troop. It will be interesting to see how many of these girls will try Scouts BSA. I haven't been to any service unit meetings (as a parent) since Scouts BSA started in February, since I've been too busy with Scouts BSA, but prior to that I did not see hostility. I did see people in Girl Scout circles who thought cubs/scoutsBSA would not be interesting to girls - and this was from families that had children in both programs. I actually could imagine a family choosing Brownies followed by Scouts BSA. (If you ignore the journeys, stick close to Girl Scout traditions, and actually take the Brownies camping, the program works. And you can take them camping without their parents And, as "girl led" the girls get the fun of actually choosing what they are going to do.) I cannot imagine choosing to do cubs followed by Cadettes/Seniors/Ambassadors.
  13. The link was specific to the person taking the survey -- so yes the respondant can be identified. If I remember right, they said that your answers would not be shared with your daughter's troop leader. It will be interesting to see if my family gets any further surveys, or marketing targetted to the dual registered group. Another survey question, if I remember correctly, was whether the survey respondant's daughter was planning to re-register with GSUSA for the coming year. (It is currently early-bird reregistration season). Since the GSUSA registration year starts in October, any girl who decided to switch to Scouts BSA in February will still be a member of GSUSA through next September. A big question for GSUSA is whether these girls will continue dual registering or whether they will stick with only one organization next year.
  14. Moderaters, please move my post if you think it is in the wrong forum but . . . GSUSA is now, perhaps inadvertantly, advertising Cub Scouts and Scouts BSA to at least some of its member families. I was, as a GSUSA parent, sent a link to a survey for parents asking a lot of questions about my family's opinions of and experience with GSUSA. One of the questions was "Which other activities or organizations will your girl be busy with? (Select all that apply.) . . . Cub Scouts or Boy Scouts (Scouts BSA). . ." So if I had not been aware that Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts were admitting girls, I would be now.
  15. Treflienne

    Great Examples of Girl Troop Successes

    I can see three possible styles of camping that need three different types of equipment 1) backpacking. lightweight backpacking stoves. 2) front country camping where you want lots of time for other activities, and so want to cook quickly, using a propane stove, which is boringly similar to cooking in the kitchen at home. 3) front country camping somewhere you can build a campfire for cooking, on a trip when you have time to build a campfire for cooking. And then you need to keep this stuff organized. For #2 or #3, any do you have any recommendations between a) classic wooden patrol box that neatly organizes stuff and opens up into a work surface but weighs a ton (when empty) b) some kind of plastic rolling tool box So far we have been using equipment borrowed from troop families and a local boys' troop, and dumped into plastic tote bins, and returned to their respective homes after each trip. We'd like to be a little better organized. Also have it better set up so that our (very young) quartermaster can better manage the gear with less adult help -- a patrol box would seem managable for a 6th grade quartermaster to keep in order. Recommendations?
  16. Treflienne

    Great Examples of Girl Troop Successes

    Well I guess it would be. At your suggestion I went looking and found that Bryan on Scouting had already thought so: https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2019/03/05/what-do-you-do-if-a-leader-is-too-quick-to-sign-off-requirements/ Revocation of authorization really sounds like the nuclear option. Have you ever seen it done?
  17. Treflienne

    Great Examples of Girl Troop Successes

    How to "flex their position of leadership muscle" while still remaining on good, cooporative terms -- that could be tricky. I think another go-round of attempted gentle persuasion first may be in order. I am still learning the interaction styles of the other scouters, and how hard I can push and have it still perceived as friendly, not hostile. Have you ever heard of the "tact-filter" theory? ( http://www.mit.edu/~jcb/tact.html )Nerds (scientists, engineers, etc) apply the appropriate amount of tact to everything they hear -- and when nerds interact with nerds everyone is happy. "Normal" people apply the appropriate amount of tact to everything they say -- and when normal people interact with normal people, everyone is happy. But "normal" people think the nerds are downright rude, and nerds think that the "normal" people beat around the bush in an infuriating way. And I don't know the other scouters well enough yet to know where they fall on this scale.
  18. Treflienne

    Great Examples of Girl Troop Successes

    That sounds like it may be a helpful approach.
  19. Treflienne

    Great Examples of Girl Troop Successes

    I agree. Now, to implement this -- helping new and inexperienced scouters see the importance and benefit of requiring a full demononstration of skill mastery. Suppose you want to convince an ASM, new to BSA, about how rushing through shortchanges the scouts. About how cutting corners on demonstration of skill mastery shortchanges the scouts. Do you have, say, any recommended reading to suggest? (This is not a hypothetical question, I would like to bring someone around to this point of view and have not succeeded yet.)
  20. The article is so confused that it is difficult to tell whether or not the scouts are confused. A few examples from a single quote why I think the reporter did not know what she was talking about: 1) Girl Scouts has no ranks 2) One does not "graduate" to the gold award. 3) Their troop disbanding is not a direct consequence of their completing the gold award. 4) "will be considered a girl scout for life and will be able to start their own troop". In my area, moms with absolutely no scouting background are pressed into becoming troop leaders, has nothing to do with what experience they had in scouting as a kid. 5) "will be considered girl scout for life? Very unclear whether this is referring to the old idea of "once a scout always a scout" or whether it means that they are planning to purchase lifetime memberships in GSUSA as adults.
  21. https://sippican.theweektoday.com/article/rochester-girl-scouts-try-boy-scout-ranks/40541 has a great picture of Girl Scouts, wearing Girl Scout uniforms, holding their newly acquired Scouts BSA handbooks for girls. If I understand it correctly (and the article is a little confusing) a whole troop of girl scouts has joined the boy scouts. They plan to finish up their GSUSA gold awards, and also work on Boy Scout ranks.
  22. Treflienne

    Terminology

    Hi Barry, Sorry, I don't mean to "rub sand in the wound". I am genuinely interested in learning what the BSA differences are. Every so often I feel like I am in never-never-land when something that I thought was common to all parts of the scout movment turns out not to be. I really appreciate that you are helping me learn the BSA way of doing things.
  23. Treflienne

    Terminology

    Absolutely, context matters. But since @Cburkhardt was talking about scouting, "the movement" seemed perfectly clear to me. Anyone else care to comment about how common and recognizable this "movement" terminology is currently in BSA? I have been learning that in some cases BSA is just different from what I am familiar with in that other branch of the scout movement, WAGGGS. I keep encountering things that surprise me, especially in areas that BSA is just different, even different from other WOSM scout organizations. (Scout sign with hand at shoulder height, or with upper arm horizontal? Scout sign as part of the scout handshake? Scout "Oath" rather than "Promise? The third part of the scout Oath/Promise, symbolized by the third finger of the scout sign is what?
  24. Treflienne

    Terminology

    Hi Barry, I don't know how common the "movement" terminology is in BSA currently, but it goes way back. The preface of the 1911 BSA handbook starts "The Boy Scout Movement has become almost universal . . ." and the first chapter of the 1920 Scouting for Girls starts "When Sir Robert Baden-Powell founded the Boy Scout movment in England . . ."
  25. Treflienne

    Terminology

    The scout movement, or perhaps more specifically the "World Organization of the Scout Movement".
×