FireStone

I was thinking about doing video Den Meetings a while back, and now it seems like even more of a useful option to have. I've used free services like https://whereby.com for work, and I think it could work for doing a virtual den meeting (with a small group). Obviously some YPT issues come into play in a virtual setting. I'm not even sure if video conferencing services are allowed with scouts, need to research the YPT implications. But off the top of my head, if we used a service like this I was going to ask that a parent/guardian be present and visible on camera with their scout for any video meetings we hold.

We're also in NJ, nothing cancelled yet but I think we'll know more about what the schools are planning by early next week, and then we'll probably follow their lead. I think it would be weird if schools closed but we were still trying to get kids together for group scout activities. A lot of local schools are doing half-day or full-day closures on Friday for teacher training on virtual learning.

If that is the true intent, the slides aren't the problem, the neckerchief itself is. We need to go back to square neckers folded in half, and at a large enough size to actually be usable as a first-aid tool or other device. The knot really has very little to do with the utility of the neckerchief.

I love this. Glad this seems to be gaining more traction. Slides are awful, especially the metal ones the BSA sells.

I haven't seen it in the G2A, just keep hearing that Scoutbook is the official record in various places, like this Bryan on Scouting post: https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2017/12/21/scoutbook-lite-to-replace-bsas-internet-advancement-platform-in-early-2018/

I didn't mean which one is more practical, which I agree the printed book is more reliable for out in the woods. But my understanding is that the handbook is no longer the "official" record of scout advancement, Scoutbook is. Aside from the challenges of a digital record-keeping solution, and that the handbook is still a required resource along with the uniform, the line we've been getting at least here in our Council is that Scoutbook is the official record.

Is it? I've been under the impression that Scoutbook is now the official document/record.

Think about where we were a month ago with this thing. In one month, so much has changed. So thinking about where we'll be with it in July and August is impossible.

A lot of folks (myself included) were voicing concern about PR before the Chapter 11 filing. Now it just seems like it's too little too late. The BSA had the chance to respond strongly and convincingly to the accusations of continued abuse, continued failure to better protect scouts, and continued lack of vetting of leaders. All of which is absolutely false, but the BSA dropped the ball when given the chance to respond. Front-page news articles made these kinds of false accusations and the BSA offered up weak, canned responses. They could have (and should have) responded with the stuff they have come out with since the bankruptcy filing, about how scouting is safer than ever in the BSA, how we have come so far with expert-informed youth protection policies and training. Now it just looks like desperate replies to a dire situation. These responses all could have done some good back when we started getting beat up in the press. Now it might just be too late. It's hard to battle back from bad PR.

I think the logic is that this should have happened long ago, so if this process results in the BSA losing everything than it was just delayed, in essence taking something away from today's scouts and scouters that should have been gone long ago if these lawsuits had occurred back when they should have. I think that if we see another dues increase, it will be really hard for anyone to believe that it's not going to be used for lawsuit settlements. Whether that is true or not, it doesn't matter. The optics of this situation have always been the most challenging and potentially harmful part of the whole thing for the BSA. The more that it looks like current members are being hit repeatedly for funds to pay for the abuses of the past, the more we will start to see families leaving. Even for me it would take some serious thought and soul-searching to decide whether or not to stick with the BSA if they hit us with another dues increase. It's worth some added cost to me to continue scouting for my kids, but everyone has their limits. At some point if dues keep going up and it feels more and more like it's just going to cover legal expenses, I'll have a hard time continuing to support that.

Scouting already works in the US without the BSA. It's the Baden-Powell Service Association. All volunteer-run, no "National", other than a national Quartermaster for manufacturing and distributing badges and books, no Council, no District, just the local units and a handful of folks who oversea things regionally. Who are also volunteers. The units have to do a lot more on their own without the National resources, but they do it and they deliver a scouting program to their youth. Scouting exists around the world mostly outside of the confines of the BSA. It certainly could (and does) continue to exist here in the US without the BSA, as long as adults are willing to take on the added burden of being a mostly locally-run organization.

Precisely the issue I've had with this all along, and that the BSA has (until now) been pretty terrible at reassuring parents that things are not at all like they were 30+ years ago. The lawsuits should be heard, settlements made, compensation paid out. But when all is said and done, will there be a chance for the organization to continue? To survive? Unless the BSA can get ahead of the optics problem, the answer to that is probably "no". It's unfortunate. While I believe all victims should be heard and compensated, I also very selfishly look at it from the perspective of a parent who has kids just getting started in the organization and realizing that they might not have much of an opportunity to be scouts because of the actions of some horrible men decades ago. And then as a leader, knowing what we go through in the name of youth protection, and knowing that today's BSA is truly a top-notch organization when it comes to youth protection, it's saddening that all of it might not be enough to escape the stigma of the past. Recent articles have labeled the BSA as a "haven for pedophiles" because of past abuse cases. Between those articles, those kinds statements, and now this bankruptcy filing, I'm not sure how we can ever break free of the notion that we're this evil organization, a place for abusers to thrive. In June we had our annual Pack recruitment event/open-house, and attendance was less than the year before. I wonder what attendance/interest will look like this year...

The BSA instagram account is a case study in uniform policing gone wild. The BSA posts a photo and the majority of the comments seem to be about badge placement, tucked in shirts, sashes, and various other pieces of the uniform that are identified as incorrectly placed, out of place, or otherwise lacking in some way. An Eagle Scout was recently harshly criticized for having a Star rank patch on his uniform. How about congratulating the new Eagle instead of criticizing his uniform? My Pack has some uniform police among the leadership, and it's infuriating. They're the same folks who show up half the time in jeans but then are quick to point out a uniforming misstep on someone else when they just happen to have showed up with the official pants on that night. We do Pack meeting uniform inspections. Again, this is a Cub Pack, kids as young as 5 years old. It's absolutely ridiculous, and I refuse to participate. I've pulled away from the uniform over the years and I think it's partially because I refuse to abide by the high standards that others impose. The uniform is important, it serves a purpose, and it is one of the aims of Scouting. But like all of the other aims, when taken to excess it can do more harm than good. There is a time and a place to encourage better uniforming, and that time and place is at a Pack meeting subjecting a Tiger scout to a full inspection. Nor is it taking to Instagram to publicly mock and criticize photos of scouts. At the last Pack function I wore a BSA sweatshirt and neckerchief (I'm a fan of the Bear Grylls look). 😁 I'll continue to minimize my adherence to the uniform policies as long as it remains a tool to unnecessarily criticize others within the organization and hold kids to an unnecessarily harsh standard of wear. I'd rather be out of uniform than have to think about whether someone will comment on some small part of my uniform being out of regulations.

Wonder how many of us would fail it. Likewise, how many of us would fail a written driver's test if we had to take it today. When you're about to take one of these tests, that's when you are studying the material and have the ability to pass it. The goal is to retain some of the information, not all of it, and to just have a good general understanding of the subject. I really don't believe it's any indicator of current civic aptitude if a lot of people couldn't pass the test. It's a very specific test, with a lot of information that people past school age really aren't being regularly exposed to. So if the question is if we should modify the MB to cover the citizenship test material because the country seems to not do well with the test other than at the time people are actually taking the test, then my opinion would be "no". There may be a good reason to include the material in the MB, but this "1 in 3" survey isn't a good reason, if you ask me.

A local scouter recently told me that "stolen valor" exists in scouting, he knows a leader in our district who wears knots he did not earn. I'm still kind of shocked that this happens in scouting, but I guess that's why we have restricted items.

This pretty much gets to the heart of the matter. Simple steps, verify the MBC, and act accordingly. My guess is that you're not going to be able to verify this MBC, though, not for all 9 badges. How many counselors cover at least 9 badges? And it would be extremely coincidental that this scout just happened to hit up the counselor for the exact 9 badges that he/she covers. I'm not even faulting the scout here, this was probably all done on some poor advice from the "counselor", a parent, etc. Someone saying, "Hey, I can sign those for you, no problem," and the scout just figures it's all well and good.

Well if that's the case, you really can't accept the cards. Even if the culture of the troop has been to operate fairly loosely with this kind of thing before, even this has to be too much. 9 MBs, 6 required for Eagle, all signed on the same date by a guy who isn't a MB counselor at all, let alone a counselor for one or any of the particular badges in question, is that right? And I'm only saying that about the troop culture with any confidence that it's accurate because the sheer number of badges we're talking about has me inclined to think that the only way a scout would even attempt to put through so many questionable blue cards is because the troop has operated this way for a while, it's not that unusual for the scouts in this troop to do this. Either that or it's just one really brave scout, trying to jam 9 badges through like this.

There are 2 questions I always ask when I hear about a troop struggling with membership numbers, and neither one of them has anything to do with Eagle Scouts. I ask, "What kind of marketing and promotion does the troop do?", and "How is the troop's relationship with the local Cub Scout Packs?" There are 3 troops in my area close enough for the scouts from my Pack to consider when they cross over, and each troop has 50-70 scouts. We have very close relationships with those troops, we get Den Chiefs from them, we go to their events when invited, they attend out meeting and activities, and also attend our annual recruitment night event. A healthy Pack recruitment program contributes to a healthy troop program. I find it rare that troops do any marketing on their own. I applaud the troop in that article making flyers and getting the word out to the community, but it seems like they probably only did that because of dwindling membership. Troops should be doing that regularly, regardless of the number of active members they have. I'd also suggest that the image portrayed in the flyer isn't ideal. They're using their own photos, which is fine if they're good photos, but I don't think most troop-level flyers and marketing materials really "sell" the program in a way that appeals to kids. Photos of scouts in uniform are nice, to adults, but does that really appeal to kids? I think most kids would prefer not to wear a uniform, it's why scouts always ask us if they can where Class B to whatever upcoming event/activity. I know packs and troops often like to use their own photos, but the stock photos in the BSA Brand Center are better suited for this purpose. Sure they aren't photos of your scouts, but they are professionally shot and styled in a way that is designed to look great and appeal to potential new members. Less emphasis on the uniform, more casual images, more fun, more beautiful scenery, more color, etc. Also, try selling more than camping, cooking and leadership. The BSA offers over 130 merit badges, most of them have little to do with camping. I think it's a missed opportunity to present the Scouting program as a place to try things you don't do in school, including camping but certainly not limited to that. I got my first taste of what would become my career in scouting (graphic design) and I'm not a professional camper (although I kind of wish i was). 😀 I know people don't want to think about scouting like we're selling a product, but the reality is, we are selling a product, and we should use any and all available tools to do so. I just don't think the image of dragging a trailer out to a dirt field to sit around a small metal fire ring is going to convince many kids to ask their parents if they can join.

I haven't read to scouts at a meeting or anything, but I've suggested books to scouts and parents that are scouting-related. Some favorites of my scout are The Last Badge by George McClements, and the entire Bear Grylls Adventure series, in which each book puts a fictional character in a survival situation with Bear and applies what they learned while getting through that situation with something that the character is struggling with in their personal life. They're really fantastic.

We're kind of in a weird place in this organization when it comes to obedience. In some ways we're sort of military-adjacent when it comes to rules and procedures. If a leader tells you to do something, you do it. In the military, the logic is that orders are followed without question so that the unit runs smoothly and without hesitation in potentially life and death situations. And in the BSA we include "obedient" right in the law. But we're not the military, and we pride ourselves on being a youth organization that develops leadership abilities, making kids into solid leaders and critical decision-makers. Using the broken leg example, if a soldier is ordered by his superior to move another soldier with a broken leg, they do so without question, regardless of whether they are in a dangerous situation or not, because they are taught to obey orders and assume that their superior is giving them orders based on their knowledge of the situation, their understanding of what is happening and the information that a superior would have. In scouts, we teach them to proceed as they feel is correct and safe, and to potentially question an "order" from an adult if they believe it is not the best course of action. A scout can and should defy an adult if they feel the injured party should not be moved. I've often wondered if the "A Scout is Obedient" part of the law still fits with modern norms, even in the context of scouting itself and teaching kids to be leaders (and potentially people who can and should question if what they are told is right). I wouldn't suggest removing it, but I wonder if maybe there's just a better word that says "smartly obedient" or something to that effect.

I don't think I'll trust any numbers for 6 or 7 years. Between all of the variables, the new girls programs, LDS, etc., it's just too volatile a situation to really read anything in to any numbers.

Where are the effective responses then? As already mentioned in this thread, BSA social media and blogs are basically silent, for weeks or months at a time. Even through the official channels that the BSA controls, they're not saying anything. And I get the whole "can't comment on pending litigation" thing, but that doesn't mean they can't comment on the absolutely falsehoods being portrayed in the media. Like the idea that they don't vet volunteers, which was mentioned in the original article I posted. Why not do a blog post about the YPT program and outline exactly what volunteers go through when they sign up? They don't need to even mention the lawsuits, just put some info out there about what the BSA is doing right now, what YPT is, the background checks that leaders go through, etc.

Excellent ideas. You're right, the BSA needs to define itself, not just offer comments when asked (and apparently delay responses, too, based on the article I mentioned in the original post). Not only are they reactive, they're slow about it, too. They need to get ahead of it. There is so much good going on in the organization when it comes to YPT, and that story is just not getting told. I'd venture a guess that we're actually among the best youth organizations when it comes to youth protection policies. I can't think of another organization that requires adults to do so much so often when it comes to learning about abuse prevention and adhering to policies and best-practices to police ourselves from within (2-deep, etc). And they need to correct the current narrative. I know that locally, we have some parents that think we just fill out a form and buy a tan shirt and that's how we become leaders. Nationally that idea is probably just as common, and National isn't fixing it. Now more than ever we should be telling parents exactly what the process is for becoming a leader, everyone should know that we're background-checked, trained, and follow youth protection practices at every single meeting, outing, and activity.

Pinewood Derby is kind of the premiere event for our Pack each year. We try to really do it up, with the decorations, snack bar (with hot and cold food for sale), 2 tracks set up (one for official races, one for fun races), race-themed banners on the walls, winners' circle podium and backdrop for photo opps. We have the local press come out and take pictures, interview scouts and parents, invite local dignitaries, etc. As the event approaches, we are always looking for ways to improve on what we do or add something new. Does your Pack do anything interesting or unique for the derby? Any suggestions or new ideas?

I'm generally the last person to criticize this kind of thing. I've sewn stuff on my son's uniform that I know wasn't regulation, but I like that the kids embrace some of these elements of the uniform, the badges, beads, etc. If it makes them want to wear it more, I'm all for it. But within reason. The uniform isn't the place to show every little thing you've done. You don't put every camp patch on the pocket, you pick one and wear just that one. Adults now are supposed to limit square knots to 9 (3 rows of 3). So I think a general rule of "keep it subtle" is key here, don't over-do it. So this, to me, is overdoing it. Those segments look like they were designed to work best in one or two rows at most, so that's probably where this should have stopped. If a scout really wants to display them all, put them on a pack, a camp blanket, back of a sash, etc.