On 10/21/2021 at 9:58 AM, tnmule20 said:

 

 

• Appointing DEI leads for each of our 16 National Service Territories to partner with the leaders and troops within their territories to implement and advance our commitment to DEI. As part of this effort, we are also implementing new programs to increase recruitment and retention of diverse employees. 

• Expanding and further supporting our five Workforce Resource Groups for employees – for members of the affinity and their allies– APACK for our Asian Pacific workforce, BSA View for our LGBTQ+ workforce, LISTOS for our Latino workforce, RISE for our women’s workforce, and The Village for our Black workforce. Each Workforce Resource Group aims to cultivate an environment where employees can seek support, mentorship, networking, and opportunities to educate, generate awareness, and foster a culture where everyone has a sense of belonging.

Some observations (Similar to what others have noted)

- BSA National laid off tons of staff and continues to eliminate actual program facing staff, but they are going to add staff for DEI.  Assuming basic expected pay and benefits this will be likely over $3 MM annually in expenses

- Note that there are 5 workforce resource groups.  I guess if you are disabled, indigenous persons, or white you are pretty much not welcomed.  Interesting that the DEI head would support exclusionary and segregated groups within the workforce.  I guess my definition of inclusion must be different

35 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

Question to current scout leaders. What do you tell current scouts and or their parents if asked about the current bankruptcy and the child sexual abuse in the past?

If asked we advise that BSA National is in litigation, the landscape is fluid.  There were abuses in the past and BSA continues to strive to correct.  Locally with our unit, to our knowledge, there are not any cases.  The goal is to keep it that way and be aware that not being aware can lead to problems.

On YPT out unit does adhere to the standards and all leaders understand the why of the standards.  If someone is meeting with a Scout prior to a meeting for some reason, we have another leader there and the meeting is out in the open.  After the troop meeting we always have 2 leaders stay until all Scouts are picked up.  Same for outings.  For outings leaders camp a distance from youth, when we wander the site to check on things, usually it is two of us.

For communications we attempt to include others, challenge is on e-mails most youth have no idea how to Reply all.  Easier with text.  Our Social Media platforms are open, no tagging, and any comments are public as are any questions.  Multiple leaders have admin access.

We have the families review the pamphlet in the Scout handbook and advise they have covered this with their Scouts.

It means someone spilled a cocktail in the server room

Smoke, sparks, general mayhem, weird red x's appearing in the lower right corner, the forum is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions, Old Testament real wrath-of-God type stuff; Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies. Rivers and seas boiling; Forty years of darkness. Earthquakes, volcanoes…The dead rising from the grave; Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together – mass hysteria.

We sometimes have the conversation with our Scouts "Why do we camp in the rain?"  Their first responses are we're dumb, we can't read the weather maps, etc etc.

The discussion leads to that if you are planning to have an outing, and if you wait for all the conditions to be perfect, you will likely never leave the porch.  It is sort of like that in life; not the perfect time to attend that school, not the best time to start that business, maybe a better time to take that job, make that investment, marry that spouse, take that trip; etc etc.

Rather than look for reasons NOT do something, look for reason TO DO something.  It may not be perfect, you may have to change or update plans, but action is better than no action.

At the end of the day, you may end up camping in the rain (or snow, or heat, or ice)...and having a great and memorable time.

There was a call this week for our council area on UMC and Scouting.  To say that the input was muddled would be kind.

UMC has very real concerns and will not commit to anything until there is clarity from the BSA.  The BSA, at least locally, has no real plan.  Maybe units go find another CO, maybe not, maybe it will work out, whatever.

Sad truth is, at least in our council, the concern for the actual units that are doing Scouting does not exist.  Our feeling is they would be fine if we all just faded away, they could run the Scout units in the inner city neighborhoods (which are good thing and service that area), with the hired leaders (Scouting Program Specialist) and drive on.  They can still raise money, still have Scouts, but don't have to worry about the pesky troops out in the woods.  Do you have Scouts to be able to raise money OR do you raise money to have Scouts?  In our council it is definitely option 1.  Looks good on paper

When asked about what our next steps for recharter, no real input.  Maybe don't have any outings in January until this shakes out.  What a joke

3 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

WARNING!   Warning!   Tangent !!!

I really wish the program went back to that.  Younger siblings can be friends of the pack, but Lions and Tigers are killing have killed the cub program.  

I fixed that for you

Lions and Tigers...oh my

22 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

There was an infamous program scoutpower of 1976 I think it was called where hundreds of scouts and dozens of units were created on paper.

as long as the checks cleared to pay for the scouts registration people didn’t care. Inflated numbers worked just fine.

Boypower 76 - Heralded by CSE Alden Barber.  Big old Crash and Burn. The resignation is sort of underscored in the following article snippet.  Left the profession "to pursue other interests"  The plan was for 1/3 of all boys to be in Scouting by the Bicentennial (1976).  This led to widespread phantom units.  The epicenter was Chicago, but the impact was in all councils..  Took many years to shake out.  Sort of rinse lather and repeat with Scouting for Life issues in the Early 2000's

In October 1967, he was appointed by the BSA National Executive Board as Chief Scout Executive. During his tenure, there was a strong membership development emphasis called "Boypower 76" which stressed the goal of reaching a representative one third of all boys in the country by serving more minority youth and urban youth. He worked with volunteers and staff to reshape program elements for the core Boy Scouting program during a major 1972 revision. These major changes included a completely new Scout Handbook, complete revision for Boy Scout rank advancement requirements, addition of "skill awards", and multiple uniform options (including the introduction of the visor cap and beret). Some of the program changes were well received, but other changes, particularly those that emphasized urban activities over camping and out-of-town trips, were criticized. He resigned his position before the normal retirement age, due in part to BSA experiencing membership declines and internal issues.

5 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

I’d did and it looked bad. I will say I have been more impressed with people like Bryan Wendell, Richard Bourlon and Anthony Berger.  I’ve found them more accessible than most professionals and while in some cases I don’t agree with all decisions at least I see some transparency and communication from them.  I’ll also argue that BSA has been doing a great job improving their IT.
 

That said, BSA needs to improve their transparency, reduce their board and hold members accountable, get inspirational leaders (inspirational for youth) who are held accountable by members.   This is not just an issue since bankruptcy.  I’ve been impressed by other scouting orgs who seem to have more transparency and get to hold their leaders accountable.   
 

Hopefully after bankruptcy we will see change, but I’m not holding my breath based on what I am seeing now.  

I continue to be underwhelmed by the BSA professional leadership at the National and Local levels.  Transparency is not in their vocabulary.  Neither is communication.

Noticed a random note on our district e-blast (which typically has "no new content") about cub recruiting and the Field Director who assisted.  Apparently our DE, which is number 5 (maybe 6??) in the last 8 years has left.  No notice from council on that occurrence.  Then they wonder why the turnover is so bad as they don't regard them very highly and we do not get attached to them.

In our district we are roughly 50% UMC units, but little to no direction or leadership from the council.  But hopefully you'll fill in that FOS and sell that popcorn.

UMC and the council of Bishops is recommending / strongly advising / instructing local churches to NOT sign the charters.  At this point it's not a NO, but remember that the ministers are assigned and are under the direction of the conferences that roll up to the main UMC.  As this moves along, a local UMC church may want to charter a troop but it may be not allowed in the book of discipline.  Side note: To actually update the UMC Book of Discipline would be a major thing, but you get my drift

Candidly, the BSA will need to get a path forward without the Charter Organization model.  The BSA (National) pretty much tossed the CO's under the bus during the proposed bankruptcy settlement.  No group will likely want to be a partner with BSA as the question is;  can they be trusted? 

Yes the January 21 CO agreement denotes insurance as a responsibility of the local council (note this is local council and not National BSA)

• Provide primary general liability insurance to cover the Charter Organization, its board, officers, Charter Organization Representative (COR), employees, and adult volunteers for authorized Scouting activities. Indemnify the Charter Organization in accordance with the resolutions and policies of the National Executive Board of the Boy Scouts of America.
• “The general liability policy issued to the Boy Scouts of America provides primary liability insurance coverage for all chartered organizations for liability arising out of their sponsorship of a traditional Scouting unit. Evanston Insurance Company provides the first $1 million per occurrence coverage. Additional policies, all providing primary coverage to the chartered organization, have been purchased so that more than $10 million in primary coverage is provided. There is no coverage for those who commit intentional or criminal acts. Liability insurance is purchased to provide financial protection in the event of accidents or injury that is neither expected nor intended

However, will that be enough and once lawsuits against CO's crank up?  May be game over for the CO model

We, as a UMC troop are seeing what the landscape is and what out future may or may not hold.

55 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

The encounter could create a time paradox, the result of which could cause a chain reaction that would unravel the very fabric of the space-time continuum and destroy the entire universe! Granted, that's worst-case scenario. The destruction might in fact be very localized, limited to merely our own galaxy.

I would posit it would be a logic paradox rather than a time paradox.  It would be localized at first, then as more logic is questioned; the Zero tolerance rules at Schools, mattress tags that can't be removed, and 5 screens of signing up with websites just to buy something; that paradox would grow, sucking in the local area.

As it grew, sort of like a hurricane, it would become a logicnado, absorbing all light and matter into the event horizon.  Only by solid reasoning and calm deliberation could be logicnado be defeated.  As we are painfully short on both, our destiny would be sealed, only the billionaires with their personal spaceships would survive, for about an extra 15 minutes.

1 hour ago, CynicalScouter said:

The rule pertaining to no one on one contact between scouts and adults is a youth protection standard.

YPT is not a “game”.

And adult scout leaders keeping secrets is exactly how we got into 82,500 sexual abuse claims

Never said YPT was a game, it is not.  The comment Or you can just not play the game is related to the obviously overreach in the YPT requirements.   I was pointing out the position the YPT rules (note - not a game) puts leaders wanting to be compliant,  The rule "outside of scouting" is vague at best and a CYA by BSA at worst.  No other youth group, sports team, etc has compliance rules (likely short of arrests) that cover the same thing.

Nor is there a legitimate way to actually enforce said rule.  Great point on the 18 YO texting his 17 YO best friend about something.  Clear violation.  

Or you can just not play the game and sort of don't ask don't tell.  BSA National did that for years with girls in units, good for the goose, good for the gander

It's an option

The whole outside of Scouting is an interesting over reach and while it has good intentions, that is what the road to Hell is paved with

I think the best thing would be to rename the current Scouter Forum .... The Bankruptcy Forum.  (Honestly it's sort of that now) Then form a NEW forum called Scouter Forum Part 2 . 

Then those that want to diver deep into the  minutia, blue sky thoughts, what if's, and pure speculation of the bankruptcy and what may, may not, may never happen will have a home.  Put on the tinfoil hats and go to town.

Those that want to discuss and review actual Scouting program topics will have a home.

Just a thought.

We appear to be having a meeting / Q&A session next month with the Council, Scouters, Clergy to ask about the "evolving" relationship between the BSA and UMC.  

As noted the "Parents of XXX" would be fraught with liability and not a good path forward.  Unless the BSA agrees to insure and indemnify the CO, not going to work.  Of course with the track record of bankruptcy and tossing CO's under the bus, no CO will really take the BSA at their word.

Sad that an organization can have a great local reputation and a parent org that seems to not really follow their own Oath and Law.  Self preservation for the higher ups trumps doing what is right I guess.

Assumption is facility use agreement and some sort of Council Charter.  Or we pack our tents and sadly exit the campground.

22 hours ago, Bear456 said:

Hello,   My troop signed up for an Out Island Adventure in 202 at the Florida area Base.

 

I have a whole bunch of questions for those who have had crews out there.

lve found found a few threads from previous crews and I am grateful for them

 

What training did crews do for Out Island.?  Napping in hammocks, making snarking comments to adults, pretending to apply sunscreen then getting burned

How do you prepare for the boat trip out to Big Munson Island? Nothing special, it's an outrigger canoe (two canoes together).  Wear a lot of sunscreen, long sleeve shirts, extended brim hats (bucket hats)

what does the swim test consist of at Sea Base.  Our Scouts are all swimmer. But for some reason I think if some of our scouts are “barely” making swimmer, then other than putting scouts on a swim training program for this next year? - As noted, normal swim test

for snorkeling, is it just enough to have kids pick up any snorkeling gear? - Seabase provided this year, so not worries

 

for now I’ve been focused on logistics getting to from sea base.   Our crew is planning on flying into Key West instead of Fort Lauderdale.  We found a house on Big Pine Key to house the crew for the night before, hit up the Winn Dixie on Big pine Key for groceries for dinner that night and breakfast the next morning before then taking the bus/ public transit from Big Pine Key to Summerland Key to get to the Brinton Environmental Center at 1300. - Our 21 crew flew into Ft Lauderdale, then rented suburban to Brinton

 

or would it be better to rent a 15 passenger van from a rental company and park the van at the brinton? Is there place to leave our van at Seabase for the week? Instead of chartering a van from Key west to Big Bine Key and from Brinton back to Key West at the end of our trip? - Rental is about as cheap

 

I understand that sea base provides a camp stove for our 4 nights on Big Munson Island, but are we responsible for providing our food or what are we cooking? - Seabase provides all of this.  Neat thing with the food, you get a barrel of food, then Scouts decide on what to cook when

I saw the post that says it gets cold on the island at night and that it might be possible to have hammocks, and the smell…   So I am grate for any info - Depends on if you are front or back of the island.  Bring a hammock, though if it rains you can duck into the tent.

 

thanks in advance.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

After camp this year, Scouts are already talking about doing our own thing again next year...

 

Some of our Scouts asked the same thing, they really liked our week long Troop summer camp last summer.  The leaders all tried to downplay that option, running a troop camp is a lot of work.  Not enough time for afternoon naps, etc.

It does take an involved cadre of leaders and involved parent leaders

In 2019 out troop sent 3 crews to Seabase (6 leaders), 1 crew to Philmont (3 leaders), Summer camp in June (7 leaders) and Summer camp in July (5 leaders).  And as others have noted, 10 monthly campouts / events.  Good number of support leaders with reservations, medical form rechecks, finances, transportation, etc.

This does take independent planning by the crew and summer camp leaders.  With the Greenbard our outdoor chair initiates the items, but then a key leader runs with the actual event.

Traditionally we do two summer camps (June and July) and 1 HA trip (Seabase of Philmont) annually.

Not to downplay the outbreak, but if they had 750 - 1,000 Scouts (Youth / Leaders / Staff) in camp the % of the outbreak is 0.3% to 0.4%.  If the goal is 0% risk of Covid then no activity will ever take place.

Possibly a more directed action could have taken place.  Just suggesting that maybe apply the scalpel rather than the sledgehammer when situations like this inevitably arise.

On 6/16/2021 at 9:27 PM, 69RoadRunner said:

I have an Eagle scoutmaster conference and wondering if you do anything different? 

 

Start with

"Let me talk with you about a great Multi Level Marketing opportunity with Amway..." and see what transpires 😀

1 minute ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

My experiece is similar to others, if you have a good program, that thr Scouts have ownership of, they will stay. Our 2 last Eagles have stayed around doing stuff. In fact one is at camp now, taking some fun MBs.                                                                                     

Agree

I had some 17.5 year olds come to camp with us.  Just enjoying their last time at camp as a youth

1 minute ago, Eagle1993 said:

We recently had a camp out where there were no activities planned during the day.  Just camp and figure it out.   During the day, the scouts went on a hike, bike ride and had fun in camp.  When we asked the adults at the next meeting how the outing went, another leader who was present complained that we didn’t have enough activities.   This was from someone with no youth scouting experience.  The PLC liked the outing and had no concerns or complaints… they had fun.  
 

Many adults seem to think that if you don’t have an agenda of activities and advancement then the outing wasn’t fully useful. 

So true.  I was our outdoor chair for many years and would work with the Greenbar on where we would camp and what we could do on outings.  When the SPL would develop the plan for the weekend I always mentored them that have some things to do, but never to much.  Leave time (especially in the afternoon) for downtime, wandering, etc.

With summer camp I have to talk some parents down and explain that their Scout does not have to come back with forty leven merit badges to have a successful summer camp.  Yes we schedule them in the morning classes (mainly so the leaders can have a nap and quiet time in the site) but leave the afternoon open for free period to go swimming, hiking, or just hanging out at camp.  

It is a balance to have some direction but also to let the Scout self determine what to do.

Couple of observations

1) Actually that is pretty good summation that BSA has sort of lost the focus on it's core constituency, the boys or now the youth.  If you look over a councils program offerings it's all about families (not that families aren't important) and adult training, etc. etc.  For those of us that have been around for a long while we can remember that the focus used to be how do we get more Scouts out and about and camping in the outdoors.  Not really sure what the focus is now.

2) Not really sure that TL is a viable alternative at this time.  Yes BSA has lost membership, but even now it is 25 - 30  times larger than Trail Life.  That certainly may change in the near term, but they have a ways to go to be really relevant.