Jameson76

We appear to be having a meeting / Q&A session next month with the Council, Scouters, Clergy to ask about the "evolving" relationship between the BSA and UMC.  

As noted the "Parents of XXX" would be fraught with liability and not a good path forward.  Unless the BSA agrees to insure and indemnify the CO, not going to work.  Of course with the track record of bankruptcy and tossing CO's under the bus, no CO will really take the BSA at their word.

Sad that an organization can have a great local reputation and a parent org that seems to not really follow their own Oath and Law.  Self preservation for the higher ups trumps doing what is right I guess.

Assumption is facility use agreement and some sort of Council Charter.  Or we pack our tents and sadly exit the campground.

22 hours ago, Bear456 said:

Hello,   My troop signed up for an Out Island Adventure in 202 at the Florida area Base.

 

I have a whole bunch of questions for those who have had crews out there.

lve found found a few threads from previous crews and I am grateful for them

 

What training did crews do for Out Island.?  Napping in hammocks, making snarking comments to adults, pretending to apply sunscreen then getting burned

How do you prepare for the boat trip out to Big Munson Island? Nothing special, it's an outrigger canoe (two canoes together).  Wear a lot of sunscreen, long sleeve shirts, extended brim hats (bucket hats)

what does the swim test consist of at Sea Base.  Our Scouts are all swimmer. But for some reason I think if some of our scouts are “barely” making swimmer, then other than putting scouts on a swim training program for this next year? - As noted, normal swim test

for snorkeling, is it just enough to have kids pick up any snorkeling gear? - Seabase provided this year, so not worries

 

for now I’ve been focused on logistics getting to from sea base.   Our crew is planning on flying into Key West instead of Fort Lauderdale.  We found a house on Big Pine Key to house the crew for the night before, hit up the Winn Dixie on Big pine Key for groceries for dinner that night and breakfast the next morning before then taking the bus/ public transit from Big Pine Key to Summerland Key to get to the Brinton Environmental Center at 1300. - Our 21 crew flew into Ft Lauderdale, then rented suburban to Brinton

 

or would it be better to rent a 15 passenger van from a rental company and park the van at the brinton? Is there place to leave our van at Seabase for the week? Instead of chartering a van from Key west to Big Bine Key and from Brinton back to Key West at the end of our trip? - Rental is about as cheap

 

I understand that sea base provides a camp stove for our 4 nights on Big Munson Island, but are we responsible for providing our food or what are we cooking? - Seabase provides all of this.  Neat thing with the food, you get a barrel of food, then Scouts decide on what to cook when

I saw the post that says it gets cold on the island at night and that it might be possible to have hammocks, and the smell…   So I am grate for any info - Depends on if you are front or back of the island.  Bring a hammock, though if it rains you can duck into the tent.

 

thanks in advance.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

After camp this year, Scouts are already talking about doing our own thing again next year...

 

Some of our Scouts asked the same thing, they really liked our week long Troop summer camp last summer.  The leaders all tried to downplay that option, running a troop camp is a lot of work.  Not enough time for afternoon naps, etc.

It does take an involved cadre of leaders and involved parent leaders

In 2019 out troop sent 3 crews to Seabase (6 leaders), 1 crew to Philmont (3 leaders), Summer camp in June (7 leaders) and Summer camp in July (5 leaders).  And as others have noted, 10 monthly campouts / events.  Good number of support leaders with reservations, medical form rechecks, finances, transportation, etc.

This does take independent planning by the crew and summer camp leaders.  With the Greenbard our outdoor chair initiates the items, but then a key leader runs with the actual event.

Traditionally we do two summer camps (June and July) and 1 HA trip (Seabase of Philmont) annually.

Not to downplay the outbreak, but if they had 750 - 1,000 Scouts (Youth / Leaders / Staff) in camp the % of the outbreak is 0.3% to 0.4%.  If the goal is 0% risk of Covid then no activity will ever take place.

Possibly a more directed action could have taken place.  Just suggesting that maybe apply the scalpel rather than the sledgehammer when situations like this inevitably arise.

On 6/16/2021 at 9:27 PM, 69RoadRunner said:

I have an Eagle scoutmaster conference and wondering if you do anything different? 

 

Start with

"Let me talk with you about a great Multi Level Marketing opportunity with Amway..." and see what transpires 😀

1 minute ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

My experiece is similar to others, if you have a good program, that thr Scouts have ownership of, they will stay. Our 2 last Eagles have stayed around doing stuff. In fact one is at camp now, taking some fun MBs.                                                                                     

Agree

I had some 17.5 year olds come to camp with us.  Just enjoying their last time at camp as a youth

1 minute ago, Eagle1993 said:

We recently had a camp out where there were no activities planned during the day.  Just camp and figure it out.   During the day, the scouts went on a hike, bike ride and had fun in camp.  When we asked the adults at the next meeting how the outing went, another leader who was present complained that we didn’t have enough activities.   This was from someone with no youth scouting experience.  The PLC liked the outing and had no concerns or complaints… they had fun.  
 

Many adults seem to think that if you don’t have an agenda of activities and advancement then the outing wasn’t fully useful. 

So true.  I was our outdoor chair for many years and would work with the Greenbar on where we would camp and what we could do on outings.  When the SPL would develop the plan for the weekend I always mentored them that have some things to do, but never to much.  Leave time (especially in the afternoon) for downtime, wandering, etc.

With summer camp I have to talk some parents down and explain that their Scout does not have to come back with forty leven merit badges to have a successful summer camp.  Yes we schedule them in the morning classes (mainly so the leaders can have a nap and quiet time in the site) but leave the afternoon open for free period to go swimming, hiking, or just hanging out at camp.  

It is a balance to have some direction but also to let the Scout self determine what to do.

Couple of observations

1) Actually that is pretty good summation that BSA has sort of lost the focus on it's core constituency, the boys or now the youth.  If you look over a councils program offerings it's all about families (not that families aren't important) and adult training, etc. etc.  For those of us that have been around for a long while we can remember that the focus used to be how do we get more Scouts out and about and camping in the outdoors.  Not really sure what the focus is now.

2) Not really sure that TL is a viable alternative at this time.  Yes BSA has lost membership, but even now it is 25 - 30  times larger than Trail Life.  That certainly may change in the near term, but they have a ways to go to be really relevant.

On 7/1/2021 at 2:48 PM, fred8033 said:

Probably re-hashing a really old argument yet another time.  ... I agree that we don't need to keep re-imaging BSA and the programs.  I would say though that I disagree on the strengths.  I feel like a church member who still has faith, but is now questioning one of the long-promised values. 

Leadership.  I just don't think troops teach it well.  I question focusing on leadership.  I question encouraging adults to teach leadership.  Scouts will learn leadership naturally by trying to get their scouts out doing things.  Be active, etc.  

I never wanted my scouts to be in scouting because of "leadership".   Sure it might become a side benefit.  I wanted them in it to do things I would not do with them on my own.  Or skills I did not have at that time.  ... To also build life-long friendships.   To get experiences.  To be more independent of me.  But, "leadership".  I'm not sure I would join BSA to get my kid to learn leadership.

I don't disagree on "teaching" leadership.  My definition would the experiential leadership learning that occurs when a troop functions.  As a patrol leaders how do you get things done, what works and what doesn't work.  When do you have to involve the SPL, when do have to go through the woods and involve the adult leaders?  That is the leadership I was referring to.

When Scouting is done correctly in the wild, Scouts (the youth ones), learn how to manage and get things done in their group of peers.  They learn if they do not adhere to some type of timetable stuff does not in fact get done.  They learn to assign tasks, to divide duties, that working together can be successful.  They learn that not everyone can do every task to the same skill.  Timmy may can cook, Tommy can tie knots, Davey can figure out where to setup tents, Joey can start a fire, etc etc.  Together they can accomplish more than they can do separately.  That is the leadership I was referring to.

Organizing a police line, fixing a tarp in the rain, determining how to cook a meal when key ingredients are left at home, and working with the new Scout as they learn the ropes.  That is the leadership I meant.

Maybe Self Confidence / Self Determination / Self Reliance could be a better description.  Understanding they can be in charge of their own destiny and are ultimately responsible for the CHOICES THEY make

That is what we are selling and the benefits of Scouting (and having fun and not realizing they are getting some learning)

22 hours ago, 1980Scouter said:

Wow that must be a well funded LC. The SE salary is crazy!!!!!

We have said the same thing

6 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

What is typical first year percentage?

Typically at summer camps 30% - 40% and I would assume the same for Philmont.  Our council camp was the same as most staff typically work +/- 3 summers.  This year about 2/3 new as opposed to 1/3

4 hours ago, elitts said:

The problem I see with that list isn't so much the number of employees, it's the amount of "senior leadership".  There are 22 people with titles that would indicate "senior leadership" out of a staff of 56, and that excludes the District Executives.  To my eyes, that's WAY to many leadership positions for a staff that size.  Of course without salaries and job descriptsions it's hard to know if they are truly "executive level" staff or if the councils simply suffer from title inflation the way banks do.

But to provide some contrast, I work in a similar sized organization.  It's a local government unit with a full time staff of like 53-54 and our monthly leadership meetings include a whole 9 people, including the Township Manager. (and that includes the part time fire chief)

On the salaries - From the 2019 - form 990

(CEO/Secretary) Base, Bonus, other compensation $459,042 - Total compensation (retirement / nontaxable) - $622,731
(Deputy Scout Executive) Base, Bonus, other compensation  $189,411 - Total compensation (retirement / nontaxable) - $261,6901
(Director of Development/) Base, Bonus, other compensation  $155,602 - Total compensation (retirement / nontaxable) - $177,294
(Director of Field Service) Base, Bonus, other compensation    $151,268 - Total compensation (retirement / nontaxable) - $194,938
(Director of Support Service) Base, Bonus, other compensation    $146,684 - Total compensation (retirement / nontaxable) - $185,891
(Accounting Manager) Base, Bonus, other compensation     $101,634 - Total compensation (retirement / nontaxable) - $165,897

For 2019 revenue of $14.3 MM and salaries and other compensation $6.5 MM

3 hours ago, Arkie said:

Long time lurker, first time poster who attended summer camp for the first time last week as an adult leader (son attended for his first time as well).  

20+ Scouts and 5+ leaders from our troop with a total of around 400 Scouts in camp. 

I would echo almost every one of your points based on feedback from the other more experienced leaders and my own observations.  Our main issue was with inexperienced/first year staff, some with what appeared to be extremely limited Scouting experience.  Lots of bickering among staff in front of the Scouts; requirements in the Green Bar area not being completed due to staff deciding not to instruct the rest of the session time; merit badge requirements being signed off without actually being completed and/or requirements being completed but not signed off.  

However, Scouts enjoyed it and felt the week was an overall positive, so all of this is just adult grumbling.  Wouldn't trade the experience and look forward to many more.   - Arkie

On the experience of staff, feedback is that at Philmont, which has about 1,500 - 1,800 seasonal staff, they were indicating that 2/3 of the staff are first year.  Lots of staff did not return and the "institutional knowledge" has not been passed on due to the pandemic gap.

We had discussion with the camp director in the later winter at the council camp concerning Block Schedule or Cohorts, that was NOT in their plan.  They wanted to have a NORMAL camp or maybe not at all.

They are in week 4 of 8 now.  We went week 2.  Maybe 1,000 scouts a week.  Basically ran like normal.  Maybe more emphasis on hand washing before meals, but no real changes.  Scouts had a great time.  Very very few masks, but we are in the Southeast.

If they had programmed with block schedules or required cohorts we would have run our own summer camp like we did in 2020

Interesting questions and one we have asked many times in our council.  It is a rather LARGE list of characters.  Honestly do not know what they all do.   With the advances in technology most of the mundane items should be automatic.

For our Council 56 professional / hired staff

Several Development and Marketing. Only about 25% are actual unit facing staff (Sr DE, DE or the apparent title District Director).  I keep hearing recruitment but honestly, the local DE does not even know who the unit leaders are as we try to coordinate with the packs.  Guy has two districts, maybe 30 units TOTAL and we've never really seen him.

Amazing all the overhead.

The old question holds true in our council - Do you raise money to have Scouting OR do you have Scouting to be able to raise money.  We are definitely in the latter part of that with the council holding actual leaders that do actual Scouting in low regard.  We are polite and reciprocate that feeling, basically ignoring them.

COUNCIL STAFF - Seems to be 56.  Professional staff and hourly non-professional.  There are 5 rangers but the councils does have 3 large properties.

Scout Executive/CEO    1
Deputy Scout Executive    1
Director of Safe Scouting & Support    1
Safe Scouting & Operations Director    1
Director of Camping and Customer Service    1
Director of Development & Marketing    1
Senior Development Director    1
Development Director    3
Development Team Coordinator    1
Marketing and Communications Director    1
Director of Field Service    1
Senior Field Director    1
Assistant Director of Field Service and Scoutreach Director    1
Program Director    1
Field Director    2
Senior District Executive    1
District Director    3
District Executive    11
Field Service Administration Support    1
Program Specialist    4
Program Specialist and Brand Ambassador    1
Program Center Manager/ Registrar    1
Accounting Manager    1
Accounts Receivable & Fundraising Specialist    1
Assistant Accounting Manager    1
Camping and Program Assistant    1
Customer Service Specialist    2
Building & Print Shop Manager    1
Camp Ranger    5
Executive Assistant    1
Executive Assistant Field Service    1
Executive Assistant to Scout Executive/CEO    1
Maintenance    1
 

1 hour ago, FireStone said:

Interesting (although not surprising) to hear that so many units share the same struggles and lack of district/council leadership on keeping meetings going during the shutdown. I'm less than enthused lately about many council-related topics and lack of support, so I guess this shouldn't have been a surprise either. My council comes around when they want money. When we need them, forget it.

Our local Packs and Troops have held meetings outdoors and done pretty well despite having to go it alone and figure things out. I don't know exactly what I expected from council but it would have been nice to see them make an effort. All they did around here was organize a virtual district Pinewood Derby and then never delivered the trophies they were supposed to get.

I agree about "don't know exactly what I expected from council but it would have been nice to see them make an effort".  It seems the council felt virtual was the best thing ever and the less they had to do.  Could still raise money, still pay salaries, close the camps so money saved there but no real PROGRAM input.  Candidly we don't really need them, so over the years we don't look to district or council for anything but filing paperwork.

And they wonder why we don't sell popcorn or really care about FOS

Troop was at summer camp last week.  We had 20 + Scouts and 5 leaders.  Total of about 1,000 Scouts, 150 leaders, 125 staff (+/-) in camp.  Nice to be back after running our own camp last year

• Program ran like normal, which was good
  • No cohorts or group requirements
• Some changes to food service, but not onerous
• The camp was somewhat short staffed
  • Main challenge was college aged Scouts as colleges had reduced tuitions for the summer
  • Also pay challenges with other businesses paying more and jobs plentiful
• Talked with leaders and most (like our unit) felt the virtual meetings were not a good replacement to move Scouting along
• All seemed to have found a way to meet during the pandemic and with CO's shut down
  • NOTE - none mentioned (including our unit) of any district or council proactive leadership on this 
• All units seemed to have lost some newer Scouts during the crossover and shutdown of Mar 2020 - June 2020, most have reached out to those Scouts but not much traction
• Many units are concerned for the health of the Cub Packs they work with
  • Some not meeting
  • Some are down 50%
  • Will be an issue on progression of youth in the program next several years
• Camp has a leader dinner on Thursday, would have been good to have SE there acknowledging the struggle is real with COVID and bankruptcy
  • Maybe acknowledging the future is charted but not 100%
  • Maybe thank the leaders not only for being at camp but also for in fact still being in Scouting and still working to bring the promise of Scouting to youth
  • A missed opportunity though not unexpected as the Senior Professionals on the Council seem to have a disdain for the lowly unit leaders
• The property was in decent shape despite not much use for the last year
• Scouts had a great time

I was at our council camp last week.  Wandered around picking out my potential new home site.  Mountain and lake view preferred.

Just kidding but sad that the properties are clearly in the discussion.

5 hours ago, karunamom3 said:

This is our newer units first summer camp. (Last year we did virtual).

Who decides patrols and tent mates? I have read that units have either adults or scouts choose for summer camp. Seems like its more the adults choosing for summer camp. What do you do?

Give me your best summer camp advice.

Thanks

Good questions.  If your whole troop is attending maybe let the patrols be the patrols.  We typically build on the existing patrols and get an even number in each patrol.  Then there is a duty roster for the day / week and each patrol has assigned responsibilities that vary by day.  Flags, waiter duty at the dining hall, site trash haul out, latrine cleanup, filling the water and gatorade.  PL's lead that.

On the tent mates we let the Scouts select who they will tent with.  Honestly about 95% or our Scouts sleep in hammocks, so the tent is more of a warehouse.

Look over the forms from the camp.  Work with your SPL or Camp SPL on activities the troop can do together as part of the program.  DO NOT OVER SCHEDULE.  Sometimes Scouts hanging out playing card games is the best thing.  Most camps have free or open activity time, let them select.

Also we have them days for the troop so out Scouts have similar things they wear.  Favorite sports teams day, Superhero day, Camouflage day, College Booster Day, Merica Monday etc etc

Above all, HAVE FUN

The challenge we had with cell phones was that it limited actual social interaction.  A few years back it was did not want to see them out, use them for music in the tent, etc.  As leaders we did not want to be the cell phone police.   It was a decision that worked for us.  With no phones there were more group games, short hikes, cornhole games, and group interaction than a bunch of Scouts hunched around phones.

Basically we do not allow them at meetings or actually at the outing.  To and from yes.  If we are someplace that may be of photo value absolutely.  Scouts leave them in glove compartments of cars or in a box we have.  Had one Scout working on a PE class for school last week at summer camp, he came and got it, did his work and exercise thing, dropped it back off.  We even lent him some battery power to charge.

14 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Ditto.

Here, our district has two major challenges.  

1.  No Commissioner Corps to speak of...  (There is no one to help units know what "right" looks like.)

Never really seen commissioners, concept is great, just never really seen on in many many (oh so many) years as a leader

14 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

2. The District schedules too many events, if you can believe it...  

Who really cares.  Do what is BEST for YOUR unit.  The most poorly attended events for our unit were the camporees and council events.  They did not resonate with our guys, so, the Greenbar leadership dropped them.  They did ask if they could and we advised they decided on the program, so that's what we did.

14 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

And you are castigated if you don't attend/support the events.  It is like the district is planning a whole Troop program year so the Troops don't have to.  When I am asked why we weren't at such and such an event, I simply say, "Because the PLC decided they wanted to do something else."  And, unfortunately, that answer is not acceptable to most in our council.  smh

Who actually cares what the district or council thinks about how YOUR Scouts run THEIR program.  If you get grief at roundtables, don't attend those events.  Who needs that in their life.  

Our focus is on the Scouts in our unit.  

$72 for youth.  Yeah yeah, great value etc, but it is getting pricey

Over the last year, we have seen the Scouting community come together, even while being physically apart, to bring solutions, relief and comfort to those in need. Scouting continues to be a vital partner for communities across the country.

The value of Scouting is undeniable for those within the program and the greater public, and the Boy Scouts of America is committed to continuing to offer this unmatched opportunity to young people and families nationwide. It is important that we all reach out to Scouting families who might have left the program due to pandemic reasons and invite them back. We should also be thinking about how to invite new families to join.

The Boy Scouts of America (BSA) has worked to keep the membership fee as low as possible. Unfortunately, operating costs have continued to rise, and COVID-19 has compounded the need to increase the fee to maintain the program.

To ensure we have the resources to fulfill the promise of Scouting, the updated national membership fee is

• $72 for Cub Scouts, Scouts BSA, Venturing and Sea Scouts participants
• $45 for Exploring participants
• $30 for council-paid memberships
• $45 for all adult volunteers (includes cost of background check)
• $75 for a unit charter fee

The membership fees will take effect August 1, 2021, for the 2021-2022 program year.

The one-time $25 joining fee for new program participants in Cub Scouts, Scouts BSA, Venturing and Sea Scouts is still required; however, there is no joining fee for Exploring participants, participants previously registered in any BSA program, those transferring from one program to another, council-paid memberships, or adult volunteers.