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Jameson76

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Posts posted by Jameson76

  1. 3 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

    we’re working on a program called The Shepherd Church,” said Steve Scheid, director for Scouting ministries.

    Other curriculum will be developed to complement with scouting activities like hiking, camping and rappelling, he said. 

    Would this be an addition to BSA Scout program OR instead of Scouts (BSA)?

    3 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

    “You pay a little bit to help the United Methodist Men organization continue to develop resources, and we provide those. You don’t know how to help kids start to pray? We provide prayer templates that help you to be able to reach a broad audience with the connection through prayer.”

    Wonder who "You" is and who are you paying?

  2. 11 hours ago, MattR said:

    This video was 2 people talking about the exciting things they saw or heard at NAM:

    #6, a presentation on what social media is.

     

    This could be part of the issue.  If BSA, with myriad of staff and volunteers on multiple levels still needs to inform key stakeholders (one would assume they are that as they are at NAM) what "Social Media" may be, BSA has missed the boat.

    BSA unfortunately uses social media as a billboard and not a reflection of the program.  They should be highlighting participants doing things, not just promoting events.  Social media should be a way to spark interest in (1) Families of young people (2) Actual youth.

    But, as BSA does little to no marketing or brand awareness any way, guess missing the social media juggernaut is expected.

    • Upvote 3
  3. 17 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

    I got concerns for BSA's future after all the recent new rules and NAM announcements. It appears to me that folks at national are clueless as to what is happening in the field.

     

    That sums it up.  One would think the goal would be to make it easier to add and retain members, not the opposite

    Many of the volunteer leaders that are at the national level have no idea what it takes to run a unit in the current environment.  Many have been actual unit leaders, but it has been a while.  I have a friend that does work on various national committees, last time he was on an actual campout with actual scouts in the actual woods was maybe 15+ years ago.

    Many decisions appear to be made in a vacuum.  Once you lose touch with your core customer, the battle is lost.  In our unit we have some good group of seasoned leaders, but, we are concerned as none of us have Scouts in the troop.  We do have leaders with active Scouts, but many of us do not have that connection to the middle school parent mindset, what drives them.  Even though we are active, go on outings etc, there is a knowledge gap.

    BSA has lost that connectivity.  The National volunteers, being so far removed from the field, do not fully grasp the current on the ground unit conditions.  The professional Scouts are fully focused on FOS, popcorn, camp cards, and whatever else raises money, that is used to fund the overhead (professional scouters), and then you add more professionals to raise money to have professionals.  Rinse, lather, repeat.

    • Like 1
    • Upvote 1
  4. On 5/13/2023 at 10:10 AM, 1980Scouter said:

    My LC SE salary and benefits are $290,000 for a council with 6,000 scouts. This equals almost $50 per scout to fund the SE. 

     

    This seems very excessive to me in that the council has lost 2/3 of youth members over the last 5 years. What are other councils paying per scout? 

    To quote Mel Brooks in Blazing Saddles....We've gotta protect our phony baloney jobs!.  Or in the BSA's case .... We've gotta raise money for our phony baloney jobs!

    • Like 1
    • Upvote 2
  5. I see both sides.  All the leaders in our unit have or had youth in the unit; but we always need assistance.  Random person comes in and wants to volunteer, that is all good, BUT, we as the unit do have a responsibility to vet volunteers.  

    After college I worked with my home unit for a couple of years, that was the connection.  Working in a new area I worked with the troop at my church, again that was the connection.  I another area I worked with a troop where I was good friends with the SM (we had been involved in Scouting activities).  The road to the volunteerism is smoother with some type of tangible connection.

    Good luck on your scouting journey and look for some connections to get that right fit.  

  6. 4 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

    IMHO. at just two pages, the Report to the Nation is brief to a fault.

    No financial information or list by name of National Board and Committee members as in years past.

    No mention of Youth Protection.

    No mention of BSA professionals.

    No mention of leaving bankruptcy (seems a significant "proceedings" to report)

    No mention of upcoming National Annual Meeting (also required by Charter)

    No photos.

    Of the "more than 28,384 participants went on treks at the BSA’s four national high-adventure bases: Philmont Scout Ranch, the Summit Bechtel Reserve, Sea Base, and Northern Tier", Even if all participants were Scouts this seems a small percentage.

    My $0.01,

     

     

     

    To add to some numbers observations

    1 - In addition to local camps, more than 28,384 participants went on treks at the BSA’s four national high-adventure bases: Philmont Scout Ranch, the Summit Bechtel Reserve, Sea Base, and Northern Tier

    Philmont (Pre-Pandemic) would handle 20,000 + in a year.  That would be mean less than 3,000 each for the other 3 bases, which is really low.  I guess the DisneyEsque Billion $ Bechtel Boondoggle is not packing in the Scouts

    2 - In 2022, 35,533 young men and women earned the Eagle Scout rank, joining more than 2.7 million Americans before them.

    That was running +/- 50,000 annually

    3 - 248 councils and 1,042,028 participants

    That averages only about 4,200 Youth members per council.  Assuming a Scout Executive for each council at is about $195K in expenses (salary / benefits travel), that is $48,360,000 or $46 per Scout just for Council Overhead SE management.  Definitely a lot of room for consolidation

    • Upvote 4
  7. Use the troop website for signup and paypal to collect any fees.  Leaders indicate who will attend also.  For the outing we can set a cutoff time, Scouts can add notes if they are coming later or leaving early.  Also we can enable for guests if appropriate.

    Scouts can see who signed up, etc etc.  Then Monday before the outing the patrols plan meals.  

    Transportation makes sure we have drivers

  8. Not to stir the pot too much, but

    • I was triggered they referenced Native Americans and not First Nation, or indigenous, or First Nation indigenous.  Though First Nation may be a Canadian thing.
    • Also, on the demographic questions at the end, only 2 sex choices, that is soooo 2015.  The survey folks need to take CIS merit badge apparently.
    • Haha 1
  9. 11 hours ago, Mrjeff said:

    I was traveling on I-75 and my mind drifted back to the days when I was a Boy Scout.  We climbed, went swimming, chopped down trees, built campsite gateways and lashed together camp gadgets.  We built fires, carved things including our fingers, slept in old canvas rents, played in the rain and snow and even went swimming in our skivies. If we got hurt someone fixed us up and we went back to what we were doing.  We stayed up all night and chased each other through the woods, and most of the time the only adult there was the ole Scoutmaster.  I also remember that our adult leaders were all part of "The Greatest Generation", sure there were a few very young baby boomers around who were JASMs but thats it.  Well, most of the greatest generation have moved on to their final reward and the boomers are all getting long in the teeth and after a while we'll all be gone to.  This leaves the job to X,Y, and Melinianials.   As such Scouting will reflect the values, ideas, social norms and opinions of those who are left to carry on and there's nothing that anyone can do about it.

    Interesting thoughts.  Our unit would be considered an "old school" traditional unit.  Camping, hiking, Scouts playing games in the woods, youth led, etc. etc.  Many families are opting for the units that are perhaps more new wave.  What Scout units are becoming is reflective of what the families EXPECT a Scout unit to be now.  That would be a unit that has evolved into Cub Scouts next level.  Dare I say AOL III.  Rather than adventures and challenges to overcome and the Scouts becoming more self assured, the expectations are that the unit will be more like a supervised classroom and leaders sort of run things.  Can't have anything to upset a youth.

    While this may work for the 5th - 7th graders, as they may still be able to be sent to Scouts, as the youths get older and want some independence, they just leave Scouts.  Mainly because due to the program not fulfilling expectations of adventure.  For out unit majority of Scouts stay well into High School because they run it and they have fun.  Over 1/2 attain Eagle.  For some of the new wave units, they have a goodly number of 5th - 7th graders, but no real older youth leadership cadre.  Once the Scouts leave they do not go to other units, they leave the program.

    Many parents now see the Scouts (the 11 -17 program) not as a 6 to 7 year program that a youth grows into, perhaps a longer term commitment that can be rewarding down the road through the challenges they encounter.  They want a managed club for a couple of a couple of years.  Move in lock step, more check the boxes, some campouts that are safe and heavily supervised and managed.  Can't have any confrontations or demanding situations impede the youth.

    Not sure what Scouts BSA will look like in 5 years.

    • Upvote 2
  10. 1 hour ago, fred8033 said:

    I'd ditch all the merit badge workbooks.  I have contempt for them.

    The Eagle project workbook though is different.  The proposal is very much a contract between all the parties.  The rest helps create evidence.

    The reason I like the workbook is because of what was going on before 2011 when the workbook was created.  Councils / districts were requiring large proposal submittals that were effectively large three ring binders of detailed project plans.  Way, way, way beyond what was needed. 

    KEY POINT - The Eagle project workbook exists not to force the scout down a path.  The Eagle project workbook exists to protect the scout from the scouting adult volunteers (unit, district, council).  

    I would agree the ES workbook is a good framework.  I think it gives the Scout guidance and also limits the scope of input or pushback

    Our unit averages 10 - 12 Eagle Scout annually.  My role is the Life to Eagle coordinator.  In working with Scouts on their proposals I want to see if they understand the scope of what they are proposing and what it will actually take to accomplish. 

    I had one Scout that was looking at building a footbridge for a school's cross country course.  Estimate was 4' bridge.  Seemed very straightforward, but, in our discussions he had taken input from the school on length needed.  I advised him to do a specific site visit.  The creek was in fact only 4 feet wide, but, the banks were sloped and to build a safe bridge at the level of the trail the bridge would need to be 15'.  A big change in scope and engineering.  He did the bridge, but the scope was much larger. bigger crew to haul lumber, 2 x 8's for the span, etc etc.  

    The proposal is just that, a proposal.  Does the Scout understand what is needed and what it will take.  The plan is where the rubber meets the road on costs and other needs.

    All it takes in one WB trained tinpot dictator with an over inflated sense of worth to make what should be a good learning and experience process descend into a bureaucratic hell and never ending pointless rounds questions that have no real value.

    • Like 1
    • Upvote 2
  11. 3 hours ago, fred8033 said:

    @skeptic  Wishing you the best.  It's not easy.  I fall on both sides of this.  A lone scout has access to council camps and activities.  If they were previously a concern, how does the council not know they will be a concern again.  My heart goes out to these scouts.  

    I would agree.  We are all volunteers and Scouts should be welcoming.  That being said, this is the concern - Challenged youth has meltdown due to meds issue and harms an adult counselor.  The SE is concerned about liability, if the Scout has harmed an adult counselor, in a camp or program setting, what safeguards are in place.

    As noted, even if admitted into a Lone Scout program they Scout could register for a provisional troop at summer camp, or for a merit badge event.  Not sure there is a good solution here and in many cases, the SE may not be the bad person.  In this case there may not be a bad person.

     

    • Upvote 2
  12. Interesting wording - He accidentally violated the no adult-youth one on one contact rule - If it was indeed an accident, why were the parents upset?  Seems a quick conversation with the parents could have allayed any fears and life moves on.

    I am assuming once National is looped in, sort of takes on a life of it's own.

     

  13. On 2/10/2023 at 12:27 PM, Eagle1993 said:

    Their top paid employees total comp:

    SE = $326K

    Deputy SE = $331K

    Dir. Major Gifts = $191K

    Dir. Field Ser = $182K

     

    We are at close to $650K for our SE (sorry CEO) for salary and benefits.  For the top 5 staff it is north of $1.6MM

    Over 1/3 of the council staff is development (fundraising), marketing (figuring out how to fundraise), program management (running fundraisers)

    • Upvote 1
  14. Our council is charging $2,400 for the Jamboree. 

    The actual fee is of course lower.  Effective November 1, 2022, the price for a Contingent member registering for the Jamboree will increase to $1,500 (14% or $215) due to economic conditions such as fuel, food, and supply issues. It is strongly recommended that Councils modify their advertised pricing to reflect this change. The payment plan is being revised and should allow both BSA Members and Councils additional time to transition member payments to councils and council payments to the Jamboree.

    Still, that seems high for what is basically 2 weeks of summer camp (10 days).  If council fees for summer camp are $450 for the SUN - SAT experience, basically 6 days, that is $75 per day.  A 10 day Jamboree would be maybe $750.  Effectively National has doubled what may be effective.  I am assuming they will have creative book keeping to show they barely made a profit.

    Then the councils are adding their profit to the mix.

    Philmont is now (2024) $1,575 for a 12 day trek, so $131 per day.  BSA is mighty pricey.

    • Like 1
  15. 1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

    3. BRING BACK LIVE TRAINING FOR WEBELOS DLs AND REEMPHASIZE TRANSITION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ( emphasis for you, Screaming at the top of my longs at National). Transition from Cubs to Scouts is hard, especially for parents. The earlier they get onboard, the better it is. Also If the Cubs are prepared, they will stay longer. In prior posts I've talked about how one den that began transition 1 month before Cross Over  had all but 2 Scouts leave within 2 years, whiel the den that transitioned in 4th grade had 100% at the 3 year mark, and 80% currently.

    Agree.  I do see many of the AOL patrols (dens??) that have no prep and expect Scouts to be just more cub scouting.  The whole independence, youth led is lost.  Parents seem to have culture shock that there is not hovering and social promotion.

    Also grades 3 - 5 is all that is needed.  Do you really need to go to the fire station leventy nine times??

  16. 16 hours ago, curious_scouter said:

    Maybe a bit more back on topic... how have your units handled this scenario:

    New scout joins, often via crossover from cubs but sometimes as they move into town from away.  Parents want to join us on a few outings.  On the one hand as a parent - I get this.  I don't really care how much training and YPT a bunch of adult volunteers have had... I'm going to find it very difficult if not impossible to get comfortable with the idea of sending my child off into the outdoors with a bunch of people I don't know at all.  On the flip side, my established leadership is not wild on the idea of unregistered adults who could end up not understanding/espousing the idea of letting the Scout do and being "helicopter parents".  I get this also.

    My compromise thus far has been 1) require YPT to attend 2) meet with said parent to set expectations, giving them the benefit of the doubt that they are adult humans and if I express my expectations and desire for adult behavior on an outing they will respect that.

    I'm too new to know how naive this is :)

    Our unit welcomes ALL parents to come to outings AS LEADERS, not parents.  If a new parent wants to come, great.  You must take YPT, we make clear the scouts camp in one area and we as leaders camp in another.  This is not a parent kid campout that the troop happens to be at.  If said kid comes over to the adult area for X or Y, one of the leaders will likely speak with them and guide them to their PL or SPL.

    We take very seriously the Scout areas and the leader areas.  Yes we stroll through, usually in groups of 2 or 3 to converse and observe, but they need to work as a group and they are handling and working all activities.

    The adults main responsibilities are to drive Scouts there, make sure no gross safety violations occur, occasional headcount confirmation with SPL, remind youth leadership what time it may be at points during the day, bandage as needed, BOR as warranted, conflict resolution if needed, judge the cooking contest, show the Scouts how to pack the car / trailer, and drive them home.

    • Upvote 2
  17. 3 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

    The BSA will still be in existence in 10 years? 

    Yeah - that's probably a really good question.

    Agree that BSA pros have no idea on how to move the organization forward.  I will put National Volunteers in that group.  Challenge is that what made the BSA great was in fact the Boy Scout program (11 -17 year olds) and the experiences those Scouts had.  Autonomy, adventure, self reliance. making mistakes and learning how to work through them, actual life skills like cooking, cleaning, taking responsibility, managing your patrols and troops, learning how to make things happen, etc. etc. 

    These skills and effectively managing Scouts can be difficult.  The BSA moved into the 100+ page GTSS, scaring volunteers, and focusing more on family scouting than the individual.  The Scouts BSA is, to many families, viewed as Web III and let's just keep the group together.  The real genius of the Scouting program is the way it challenges the youth and, done properly, let's them grow as individuals.  Yes girls can gain from this.

    National seems to want to focus on MB universities, STEM, Tech, whatever keeps Scouts out of those treacherous woods, which may be OK, but that is not what keeps Scouts in the programs.  Cubs you can rope in the parents and they will bring the kids.  Scouts BSA you may can force the kid to participate, but after 7th grade or so, if they are not having fun, no dice.

    Too many councils are fundraising on what Scouting was, not what it is.  The people donating may have a nostalgic view, maybe that will continue to pay dividends, not really sure.

    To keep Scouting going

    • Make it fun
    • Focus on a game with a purpose
    • Let YOUTH run the program
    • Units should not have pages and pages or rules and regulations
    • Go outside and have adventures, yes youth are pushed out of their comfort zone, which is the method
    • Did I mention to make it fun?
    • Do some marketing to bring the national level of consciousness and awareness surrounding Scouting to a higher level
    • Long-term Scouting can be way more beneficial to youth than travel sports. make that a cornerstone
    • Scouts, should be positioned as part of what can make youth successful; along with family, school, faith, hobbies, friends, sports, and Scouting
    • Upvote 3
  18. 6 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

     I do not know about other councils, but in my council the perceived attitude is you are on your own. Not only is there no support helping existing units that are struggling, but there is no support for creating a needed second girls' troop in my district.  There is a lot of interest for a girls troop in one section of my district, but instead of the pros helping start the unit, instead they send them to a units 45+ minutes away one way. It doesn't work like that.

    In our council unless you are raising money, they could care less.  No marketing, no support to new or old units.  Remember, Scouting is about the cash and keeping the pros paid.  As long as they can keep cashing in on the cache and history of BSA, they are happy

    • Sad 1
  19. With all the camping / nights camping requirement the "intent" is for the youth to be active over a longer period rather than just coming to week long camps.  The weekend outings are critical to develop leadership skills, interact with other Scouts, overcome obstacles, make decisions (like where will my tent go) etc.  A week at summer camp is important, but the monthly outings are harder.  Planning menus, packing for that weekend weather, working the outing into other responsibilities.  These outings are what makes a Scout a Scout and how we as an organization differentiate ourselves in the market for youth time and attention.

    The Scouts develop, plan, pack, unpack, execute, have adventure, repack, then unpack back at their home on these weekends.  Don't try to short change the Scout on this vital opportunity for individual development by gaming the system.  

    If you sit on BOR's and especially EBOR's, the outings and nights camping are why Scouts stay active.  Program Program Program, deliver it don't short change it.

    • Like 1
    • Upvote 1
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