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Posts posted by Jameson76

  1. 9 minutes ago, PACAN said:

    Sent to me by someone  from this area.


    Another example that maybe councils may not be immune from being added to the bankruptcy???

    Not sure the Council is liable in this case.  I would say unless they (The Council) had some prior knowledge to possible leaders past issues, and did nothing, then they are doing what needs be done.  When they were made aware they removed him from Scouting, turned the investigation over to police, and advised the unit.

    Main issue with the past cases was (that by 2020 standards) they were not handled correctly.  Also there were serial abusers and with the patchwork of notifications, they moved on to other councils and units.

    • Upvote 2

  2. 12 minutes ago, Pale Horse said:

    We had a professional marketing rep on staff, but fired her about 2 months ago.  I guess it makes sense. If we're not going to advertise or talk to the media, what do we need to pay a PR person for?

    Large council, we seem to have 3 folks among the cast of thousands over to the office that have marketing in their title.  Honestly have never seen anything out there in the local wide wild world about the BSA in our metro are that was in fact actually generated by the council office.  Another 6 have "development" in their title.  I am guessing that all of them are in fact involved solely with raising money so they, the SE, the Asst SE, the multitude of directors and specialists all can keep getting paychecks. 

    When in doubt and to balance the numbers just add in some of those In School units.  Gotta look good to the donors

  3. We put the crossover Scouts in New Scout Patrols, for the first few months.  They work with older Scout Guides on Scout / TF / 2nd Class / 1st Class requirements.  For summer camp they roll into mixed age patrols, helps them get to know all the other Scouts, moves them into the troop.

    First meeting of the fall they are rolled into our standing patrols.  As noted we have the mixed age patrols so the new Scouts learn from the current Scouts.

  4. The BSA, for all of it's marketing and development folks, is absolutely the worst at any type of marketing.  Basically it is non-existent.  This is at both the National and Local levels.  For them to be able to get out in front of something, they need to have a grasp of what that something may in fact be and UNDERSTAND why they need to get in front of said something.  They need to be able to TELL the positive story, but they may not understand why the story needs to be told.

    Yes Scouting is local, but it's like any franchised business.  The National office generates the buzz to drive consumers and the local shop delivers on the promise.  With BSA is seems that the local shop has to source their own customers, tell the stories, generate the buzz; then pay the money up the chain.  Think I saw that business model in Goodfellas.

    There should be marketing for the BSA that drives Youth to be interested in the program, to SELL the program.  Then the local units close the deal.

    Sadly if you are not involved in Scouts chances are you will never be aware we are around.  There are some units that have a presence on Social Media, but those are very few and most are not very good at posting regularly or putting out a good story.  As for any traditional venues like billboards, popup posters, etc; non-existent


    • Upvote 2

  5. Main question I would have is who is the beneficiary and is this log pile habitat core to their mission.  How many of these are being constructed?

    I also question the purchase of food to support the beneficiary, not sure I've ever seen that in a project before


    5 hours ago, Proudeagle said:

    The main questions are:

    1) Is this a feasible project?

    2) Does the Proposal contain the necessary information to show that the project is going to pass the "test"?


    Certainly feasible.  Maybe have the Scout expand on how this supports the beneficiary

    • Like 1

  6. 1 hour ago, fred8033 said:

    Your representation and reasoning is correct.  And I suspect the legal situations follow your reasoning.  exist.  The simple fact is many of these cases were not pursued back in the time when it happened.  Not by parents, police or society. 

    For that reason I have some trouble with some of the cases being pursued as noted above and as stated in the new reports.  Many were in fact never reported to family, police, councils.  Sadly that is the truth.

    Did this happen, we have to believe the account of the abused.  Is the Scout leader still alive?  If so pursue criminal charges.  Does the abused person deserve counseling and support, absolutely and that does appear to be happening if media reports and BSA National releases are accurate.  Does this make the abused one eligible to get a large cash settlement?  Not sure about that.  Many factors are in play.

    If the BSA and the local council was aware and did not prosecute, maybe.  But as many of these incidents show, some were reported but the authorities did not prosecute.  It is incredibly hard to look back 40 to 50 years and make the case that it was handled incorrectly based on 2020 standards.


    1 hour ago, HashTagScouts said:

    Exactly.  Any lawyer is going to make that a significant point that somehow the council chose now, this event, as the opportunity that they are trying to hide assets.  

    My understandings from what I have seen posted on social media is that the attorneys involved with the Abused in Scouting organization are focused on liquidating the BSA, and that includes any assets held by Councils.  I've seen comments on their SM over and over that "the world doesn't need the BSA", etc. My interpretation is that they believe that everyone involved in Scouting in the past, as well as those today, are all implicitly tied together in allowing any cover-up of abuse (in other words, if we wore/wear the uniform, the National/Council/Unit separation is insignificant).  I am not saying I agree with that point of view, but I can understand why they will attempt to argue that Chapter 11 is not sufficient and come after Councils and COs.   

    There is the actual rub right there, one group wants nothing more than to dismantle and sell of the valuables of the 100+ year old organization for profit and one group really wants to continue the mission.  

    As we have all noted, this will not and cannot end well.

    • Upvote 3

  7. As an interim step, and to begin the process, what about a backpack and a duffel bag?

    The backpack can get your personal gear, food, small stove, tent, etc easily to and from the vehicle.  Then your large duffel can have chair, sleeping bag, pad, etc.  You have two bags and easy to transport and handle

    As you migrate and advance to more backpacking you go from say a normal camp chair to a backpacking chair; move to a more compressed sleeping bag, more of a backpack sleeping pad.  Then suddenly everything fits in the backpack

  8. Speaking of DE's and the professionals. 

    The local ones have had the bonus helping of BSA kool aid following the Chapter 11.  Now the group is Dallas is "Our National Affiliate", let's distance ourselves from them guys.  All is great, this Chapter 11 thingie is a good step, Council assets will not be part of this, they (assuming lawyers) will not come after local Councils, etc

    It's a tough sell, but really.  Also if the discussion is membership and units, they all talk about how the year ended, adding girls, good growth..but no detail about how things shook out after recharter.

    God love them, but man, they remind me of candidates spokes staff hitting the positives after their candidate finished 6th in a 5 person race.  

    • Haha 1
    • Upvote 3

  9. 2 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

    Here is Arrow WV, INCs latest 990.


    They are claiming it is worth $385M (after depreciation).


    • Land - $121 million (how much is there like 10,000 acres??) - $12,000 per acre?
    • Buildings - $136 million - Assuming a very generous $135 per SF for space - do we really have 1,000,000 SF of space there??
    • Leasehold Improvements - $108  million that seems like a lot for infrastructure
    • Equipment - $13  million that is equivalent to 130 of the most expensive 2020 Corvettes (C8)

    Philmont must be undervalued

  10. 1 hour ago, Jameson76 said:

    Note due from Summit?  Is that indicating that Arrow WV basically borrowed money from BSA and that is "due" at some point as retired debt from operations and donations?

    Thus BSA is listing that "receivable" from Summit (Arrow WV) as the asset for the site?


    46 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

    Correctamundo.  Do you think we can get out of this whole thing by transferring that "receivable" to the victim's fund? Good luck collecting on that.

    I also noted that they specifically noted that they did not include Oil & Gas Royalties or the Artwork - Original Rockwell paintings on their asset list.  I wonder why they could do that.

    That's insane - The Summit high adventure facility is in a separate legal entity, Arrow WV.  BSA has a note receivable due from Arrow.  The note due from Summit is $345M.  Did I mention that's insane?  The folks responsible (Professional BSA / Volunteers / Board Members / etc) they should be in court for being insane.

    No way on God's Green Earth that patch of WV is worth anywhere near that amount of money.  So Bankruptcy is what happens when you throw all your money down a rathole

    • Upvote 3

  11. 11 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

    They listed HA values here:



    Northern Tier - $6.6M

    Sea Base $16.7M

    Philmont $40.1M

    The Summit high adventure facility is in a separate legal entity, Arrow WV.  BSA has a note receivable due from Arrow.

    The note due from Summit is $345M

    So, total for HA bases = $408.4M out of total Assets of $1.01B


    Note due from Summit?  Is that indicating that Arrow WV basically borrowed money from BSA and that is "due" at some point as retired debt from operations and donations?

    Thus BSA is listing that "receivable" from Summit (Arrow WV) as the asset for the site?

    • Confused 1

  12. 12 minutes ago, JoeBob said:

    I'm curious as to the relative value of the 4 HA bases. 

    Northern Tier is a medium sized outpost.  Not a lot of real estate.  BSA does not own the Boundary Waters.  (Sorry lawyers.)

    I can guess that Seabase would have about the same value as Northern Tier, for the same reasons.

    Bechtel, because of the mortgage , may be a negative.  Especially since BSA paid more than the land was actually worth.  

    But Philmont...  That is acreage.  Who wouldn't want to retire to the 'Tooth of Time' retirement community, where age really bites?

    It's in the annual report, but too lazy to look it up.  Way way down in the financials.  Philmont is the main cash value. 

    Summit only needs like 50,000 attendees annually to get out of the red

    • Confused 1

  13. 14 minutes ago, Jackdaws said:

    I have also been curious to the profit margin on KK.    In our district there are 2 standing KK stores that do pretty good business so customers have the availability for fresh doughnuts if they get the vouchers. 

    Way Way back in the day we bought them for Fraternity fundraising.  We had to buy like 200 dozen, and we paid $1 per dozen and sold them for $2 per dozen.  Not sure we ever sold the entire 200 but we did sell about 175 or so, thus turning a pretty good profit

    Also if you leave the remainder in the chapter room for a couple of days they get hard and you can have an epic donut war....

    • Haha 1
    • Upvote 2

  14. Interesting take from Philmont on the Bankruptcy...pretty much - yep BSA filed Chapter 11, but we have meals to pack for summer treks (and I expect they sort of implied that The woods are lovely dark and deep. But I have promises to keep, And miles to go before I sleep,)


    Today the Boy Scouts of America filed Chapter 11 Bankruptcy (Learn more: www.BSARestructuring.org). At Philmont, we continue to prepare for 22,000 Scouts to hike our trails this summer. We are happy to report that our food packing team is hard at work packing more than 700,000 trail meals

  15. 32 minutes ago, HashTagScouts said:

    Assets: I would argue that as lovely and wonderful as.....Summit is are, they  it is are not essential for program delivery.  We made do without it them, and sooo few Scouts ever actually want to visit it them.  

    First - rarely hear Summit / Lovely / Wonderful all in the same sentence...😀

    That may be the one that BSA can kick to the curb and there will be little angst among the minions.  You pour $750,000,000 into a BSA National Vanity project, you sort of reap what you sow. 

    You lose Philmont, you've lost the legacy of 80 + years of multi-generational High Adventure.  That would be a gut punch to the organization

    • Upvote 1

  16. 6 minutes ago, desertrat77 said:

    the rallying cry that National issued last fall:  "Sell More Popcorn."

    So....if all the Scouts in all areas (1.8 million) sold like 4 billion dollars worth of popcorn, the profits would put the BSA in the black.  Each Scout just needs to sell (on average) about $2,500 worth of popcorn, and if all sold the $60 tins of chocolate covers popcorn that is really only 42 of these each.

    That's really only 67 million tins of chocolate covered popcorn....so LET'S GET SELLING 😁

  17. The optics are going to be the hard part.  The group that BSA needs to sell (and continue to sell) is the new families that traditionally join as Cubs.  Those of us in units that are functioning, this is sort of a non-event

    How do we (BSA as a whole) bring in new Scouts (Cubs / Scouts BSA / Etc) when the families not invested in the BSA see the Bankruptcy of the Boy Scouts and the driving reason for Chapter 11 is sex abuse cases.  That is going to be a hard sell....just saying

    • Like 1
    • Upvote 2

  18. 1 hour ago, njdrt-rdr said:

    I gotta vent. I have to say that the decision by National to allow a girl troop and a boy troop have the same troop number in the same district is idiotic and then to preference with one is Troop 187 B and the other is Troop 187 G..... But, in my opinion I guess it won't matter in a couple years when all troops are co-ed anyway.

    And that (the co-ed) factor is the reason.  The endgame plan is co-ed.  That will be denied by National folks, but that is the plan.  With CO's running Boy and Girl units with the same number, the same number makes that so much easier.

  19. 12 hours ago, fred8033 said:
      • Re-partner with "Walgreens" or another vendor to sell scout shirts again.  ... I really think scout shirts and stuff in neighborhood stores was a big-time marketing tool.  My first exporsure to scouts was at the local five & dime with their four/five feet of scout stuff.  

    Now you are into National Supply which is another whole deal.  

    My council has generated a CSP for the summer camp.  I was at the office and went to the Scout store, but had to buy the CSP at the program desk.  Seems that (in our council) the large Scout Shop is not the council's deal, but is National Supply run.  The folks who work there are not part of the local council, but are National employees.  My assumption is that National Supply pays rent to the local council for the footprint.

    Now, when I realized this, I wondered what the overhead for this must be for National.  The footprint in my council is probably 2,000 SF.  Assuming 2 staff for 8 hours - 6 days per week and rent, just the overhead would be easily $150K annually.  Assuming a profit of 10% on sales, that would mean the store would need to generate $1,500,000 annually or $600 in sales per hour every hour the store is open (assuming 6 days per week and 8 hours per day) JUST TO COVER OVERHEAD.  Also I am likely under estimating overhead and over estimating profit.

    National Supply should have everything on-line.  With one DC you could greatly reduce inventory and have a higher fulfillment rate for scout uniforms ordered on-line.  The local council could have 100 SF of shelving for the patches and awards.  

    • Thanks 2

  20. 52 minutes ago, carebear3895 said:

    Larger councils that are able to fool unsuspecting people into take DA jobs.  Only council that I've met that used them is Northern Star in Minnesota. 

    Our council has Program Specialists - 11 of them, they seem to be the ones paid to be Scout Leaders from what I can gather.

    Also the council has these 10 folks on staff

    • Marketing Coordinator
    • Director of Outreach
    • Director of Development and Marketing
    • Development Director
    • Development Team Coordinator
    • Major Gifts Director
    • Senior Development Director
    • Development Assistant
    • Senior Marketing and Communications Executive
    • Development Executive

    Seems to be a lot of Development going on.....

    Of the (on the website) 74 staff noted only 20 have District Executive in the their title (27%).  There are many directors / ect - not sure what they all do

    • Confused 1
    • Upvote 1

  21. 34 minutes ago, mashmaster said:

    OK, so what happens if on a campout we need to take him for medical attention?  I am not trying to be dense, I just want to be sure I do the correct thing.

    I would presume parents would need to be guarantors for payment at any medical facility.  The hospital will likely not decline to treat, but they would be in contact with the parents on who is paying for the treatment.  Maybe have your medical form person (if you have one) or CC have that conversation with the parents on what process they may want you to follow.

    I do not think we have run into that one before

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