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Posts posted by Jameson76

  1. 24 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

    The article I read including photo of EBOR.


    "Those present for her Board of Review were NOW-NYC President Sonia Ossorio, Scout Leader Jim Nedelka, Assemblymember Harvey Epstein, NOW-NYC Board Chair, Judi Polson, and Taylor Abbruzzese, MSW, she said."


    Not to be all technical, pretty sure some of the basics were not covered.  Maybe the middle on, they all looked over 21, not sure that have an understanding of the rank.

    - if conducted at the unit level, at least one district or council representative, who is not affiliated with the unit, must serve as a member. If the unit requests it, more than one may do so.  

    - There shall be no fewer than three and no more than six members, all at least 21 years old. They need not be on an advancement committee or registered with the Boy Scouts of America, but they must have an understanding of the rank and the purpose and importance of the review. This holds true for Eagle boards of review held in any unit, whether troop, crew, or ship.

    - A board of review shall not occur until after the local council has verified the application. In the case of a board of review under disputed circumstances, the council must verify all the information that is not in dispute before the board of review is scheduled

    • Upvote 1

  2. 7 hours ago, yknot said:

    I'm just wondering if the problem is that they can no longer get liability insurance. I know they were fighting with their insurers who were balking. Bankrupt or not, if you don't have insurance, I don't think you can operate. That could leave all of us nowhere. Anyone know more about insurance than I do and have a learned opinion? 

    Travelers listed the extension of the statute of limitations in New York as an exposure on their 10Q  (that is a quarterly report mandated by the United States federal Securities and Exchange Commission, to be filed by publicly traded corporations recently, not sure if that is specifically related to coverage they carry on BSA or possibly other youth / religious groups

  3. 1 hour ago, walk in the woods said:

    Golfing, I'll probably go golfing.  Or maybe camping with friends just for fun.  Maybe guitar lessons.  

    Now there's some cash outlay....golfing.  $500 for clubs (yeah I know cheap set), $50 for green fees, $20 for a dozen balls...not to mention fees at the 19th hole


    • Haha 1

  4. 5 minutes ago, carebear3895 said:

    I'm on the $49 train. We currently have a poll going on our office. 

    Well let's do the math

    2,500,000 (Youth / Leaders / All in / Rounded up for ease of math) @ $33 = $82,500,000

    less 525,000 LDS folks departing (yes yes I know, they may not have paid the full fees, lot of neat deals made, but let's press on)

    1,975,000 (remaining) @ $33 = $65,175,000

    Basic projected shortfall of $17,325,000 OR $8.77 per remaining participant to cover.  That does not factor in the insurance increase, Summit Bechtel Reserve Tax, Scouting Professional Pension shortfalls, liability to abuse cases holdback, and a myriad of other financial woes hanging around out there.

    $49 may be the number

    That would be close to $97MM in revenue

    • Thanks 1

  5. 4 minutes ago, 5thGenTexan said:

    I can not speak for everyone, but $100 recharter fee is a deal breaker for me,  I have a Bear, I have a daughter who I am working on creating a Scouts BSA Troop in town, I am a leader as is my wife.  We are not paying $400 a year just to send to National.  

    The question will be, or National will try to push, is what is that breaking point?  Is it $50, is it $60??  When will the frogs in the water in the slowly warming pot say "Wow, it's getting HOT" and jump out of the pot?

  6. 20 minutes ago, Buggie said:

    My council is notorious for losing paperwork. Most often, it isn't lost per se. More that the form is lacking some information or something is incomplete or not checked off, so instead of communicating the situation back to the unit/individual, they toss it and you have to figure it out months later and submit new paperwork. And likewise, even when it is received and processed, that isn't always updated on the right systems. Add the fact that some committees are horrible at following the status of things online and you can have situations where a leader is not official registered for over a year, even after paying rechartering etc. 

    So ask me how I feel this whole re-do of background checks are going to go? My troop wasn't aware it was going to happen and as of last week, they didn't have a plan for a mass collection of the forms etc. I can see units having big problems with lost background checks. 

    Agree on the incomplete.  As a unit we take the Eagle applications to the office, (pre-EBOR) then hang around until completed.  We review them prior and even so, there is sometimes a date that does not work out right.  We correct it right there.

    If we weren't there, I can see that application being put aside, e-mails sent (maybe), etc etc and it getting buried

  7. 6 minutes ago, desertrat77 said:

    the math that units are working through now is sobering.  

    The sobering part may be all the units that have NOT begun working through the math.  They got the note but are assuming it will be another $10 - $12 increase.

    Suppose you are a NEW unit, just bee bopping along, planning for next year fun and adventures, etc etc.  You know the fee is $33 now, you've got 10 Scouts and maybe 6 leaders, so you have the $528 ready, possibly hedged about $160 for the increase.  BUT WAIT - you will actually need (worst case) $1,600 or an additional $1,072 in total.  This will be a shock to the system.  

    Also if it does go to worst case, now new Scouts will need to pony up a big chunk.  If you join Tigers with your young-un, and want to be a leader, that will be maybe $200.  More if there are Unit dues.  Will be tough.  Family Scouting will be replaced by Ghost Leaders.  We'll sign up the minimum, everyone else is a visiting parent.

    • Like 1
    • Upvote 1

  8. 25 minutes ago, desertrat77 said:

    I've heard nothing in our council except this:  "it really doesn't matter how high the fee is, scouting is still a bargain."

    While I agree in theory, in real life it isn't going to work that way.  Families are already squeezing budgets to the brink.   For many, scouting might be the first thing jettisoned in the coming months.

    We are supposed to recharter around the first weekend of November.  Concern is we will not know the fee until maybe a week prior.  I know they have said we will hear something about 10/23, but that is the earliest.  Our unit has about 100 Scouts and Leaders.  Currently that is maybe $3,300 for recharter.  If the fee goes to (and this is worst case) $100 per Scout (*Hey - still a bargain!!) we will need to somehow come up with another $6,700.  Many families may decide not to continue.  Will take a minute to sort all of this out and determine a path forward.

    Not good planning at all.  Between the UNKNOWN FEE and the REVISED BACKGROUND CHECK FORM and the DEPARTURE OF THE LDS UNITS my assumption is that CSE Surbaugh's Bonus and those of the National Staff is clearly tied to how many leave the program 2019 to 2020

  9. 51 minutes ago, Calion said:
    I find it very odd that BSA seems to provide very little guidance on how to start new units. Isn’t one of the most important jobs of the Scout Executive to work to start new Scouting units?

    Nope, the Scout Executive of the Council is there to raise money first, insure no bad issues make it to the press, meet their own goals for their bonus plan.  Waaay down the list is start new Scouting units.  The local DE is more in tuned to that effort.  The SE (or CEO in many councils) would not be bothered with that.

    Main help should be the district volunteer staff, but that effectiveness varies widely from district to district.

    • Upvote 1

  10. 9 minutes ago, walk in the woods said:

    I for one would very much like the G2SS be a one-pager that says, use common sense, talk to your parents, follow the oath and law.  But, it doesn't.  It's however many hundred pages with inclusions by reference, appendicies, and pictures with circles and arrows.  Since that's what we have to work with, we'd like them to be clear and consistent.  Here on this board you have what I'm going to assume is an honest question asked by a typical scouter.  The responses to that question are showing some confusion with the wording of the various documents and web pages and local practices.  Nobody wants more documentation, but a simple answer would be awful nice.  

    Does overnighter mean just one night?  

    It's a yes or no question.  So, how bout you add some value and answer it.

    Didn't you mean - 

    Twenty-seven 8-by-10 color glossy pictures with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was, to be used as a Guide to Safe Scouting – even including some aerial photography.

    • Haha 1

  11. Is there a creek or lake nearby you can use for fire, etc?  Typically it's about 1 gallon per person per day.  If you are staying maybe 48 hours (2 days) with 30 people, I would take 60 gallons.  We have camped at sites that do not have potable water there, but it is accessible.  So we can refill.  Hard part for toting 30 gallons of water is the weight, weighs about 8 lbs per gallon.

  12. 2 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

    The questions I have are A) will they actually publish the results and B) Will they actually read the responses and act accordingly.

    94% was against instapalms, and yet here they are. And an internal membership polls result still have not been released.

    Pretty sure we know the answers.  Surveys are taken to justify and support decisions already made

    • Upvote 1

  13. 22 minutes ago, malraux said:

    Found where it came from: https://www.scouting.org/programs/cub-scouts/activities/cub-scout-camping/

    “Packs may not conduct campouts longer then overnight. “

    that said, I’m not sure how binding those pages are. I know the pages on the ranks gets interpreted incorrectly about how the webelos program works. 

    So reading the referenced "Pack Overnight Campout Site Appraisal Form", assume you can camp in your backyard, if it's astroturf like the Brady Bunch and nobody is throwing a ball.  Anywhere else would be tough.

    Wonder what the actual definition of "hazards" may be.  Would a footbridge, lake, or hill be a hazard??

    1. The camping site is clean and safe from hazards. __________ __________
    2. The site is not located near any natural or manmade hazards. __________ __________
    3. Campsite areas are available for tents. __________ __________
    4. Facilities are available for proper sanitary disposal of garbage. __________ __________
    5. Drinking water from an approved source is provided at convenient locations. __________ __________
    6. Emergency medical services (EMS) are available within 30 minutes from site. __________ __________
    7. Cellular phone service is available. __________ __________
    8. If fires are permitted, an adequate fire lay area is provided. __________ __________
    9. Any individual site hookups provided for electricity, water, or sewer meet
    all appropriate local and state health codes. __________ __________
    10. Each family site is located within 300 feet of a sanitary toilet facility. __________ __________
    11. Shelter is available for program activities during inclement weather. 

  14. 12 minutes ago, JasonG172 said:

    I round ours up to 34$, lol I like whole numbers haha.  I really hope no more than $20, I don't want to see more than $10 but noone has asked me. 

    Myself, 14 year old and now my new Lion, it would most certainly make me start considering what to do. I agree YES it is still much cheaper than other sporting activities in our area but we also have on going events (campouts, summer camps) that figure in to our "yearly" expenses which I promise would exceed those other programs. 

    My pack camps almost every other month, the troop camps every month. Average cost of event for the Pack $12ea, for the troop $25ea 


    Agree it could be a cause for concern.

    Our troop charges $100 annually for dues (no fundraisers), then pay as you go for outings.  

    9 regular outings that run about $15 each, 1 winter trip that runs about $50, 2 summers camps, each about $350.  If a Scout attended all events, it would be $935 annually.  Note that most of our leaders contribute the gas used for outings.  Meals for outings would be extra.  That being said the Scout would have 15 to 16 nights camping for weekends, 12 nights camping at Summer camps.  It is a good value. 

    Admittedly if the National Fee goes up maybe $50, that would be a 5% increase if you attend everything, but a 50% increase in our annual dues.  It would still be a tough pill to swallow.

  15. 26 minutes ago, 69RoadRunner said:

    At summer camp last year, there was a troop of all boys with just 2 female adult leaders.  I have no problem with that, but saying 2 adult male leaders for a group with 1 or more girls is gender bias.  

    Having different rules for men and women seems like something that will result in legal challenges.  

    You are assuming the male leaders identify as male...one cannot assume in the this brave new world.  I do actually wonder how that would play out.  All female troop, one male leader identifying as male and one currently biological male that identifies as female; is this in compliance with YPT?

  16. 51 minutes ago, Treflienne said:

    Would I really want to send a small group of teenage girls on a camping trip to be supervised by young men in their early twenties?  Sorry.  Not a good idea in my mind. 

    That is an interesting sentiment.  Is the world really that dark?  A predator behind every tree?  If YPT guidelines are followed there should not be any issue.  With all the gender inclusiveness it should be "youth" and then "adults (over 21)"  End of story.

    • Upvote 1

  17. I wonder if he had worked at the local Auto Parts store if his employer would have been included in the story?  

    Many Scouts and those that work at camps do not realize they are in fact held to a higher standard.  

    2 minutes ago, TravelerJoe said:

    Is this really surprising to people?  Maybe people need to re-read the philmont article in Outside from the late 90'/early 00's.

    Forgot about that one, sort of read like a Grateful Dead experience.....

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