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Posts posted by Jameson76

  1. 9 minutes ago, walk in the woods said:

    I for one would very much like the G2SS be a one-pager that says, use common sense, talk to your parents, follow the oath and law.  But, it doesn't.  It's however many hundred pages with inclusions by reference, appendicies, and pictures with circles and arrows.  Since that's what we have to work with, we'd like them to be clear and consistent.  Here on this board you have what I'm going to assume is an honest question asked by a typical scouter.  The responses to that question are showing some confusion with the wording of the various documents and web pages and local practices.  Nobody wants more documentation, but a simple answer would be awful nice.  

    Does overnighter mean just one night?  

    It's a yes or no question.  So, how bout you add some value and answer it.

    Didn't you mean - 

    Twenty-seven 8-by-10 color glossy pictures with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was, to be used as a Guide to Safe Scouting – even including some aerial photography.

    • Haha 1

  2. Is there a creek or lake nearby you can use for fire, etc?  Typically it's about 1 gallon per person per day.  If you are staying maybe 48 hours (2 days) with 30 people, I would take 60 gallons.  We have camped at sites that do not have potable water there, but it is accessible.  So we can refill.  Hard part for toting 30 gallons of water is the weight, weighs about 8 lbs per gallon.

  3. 2 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

    The questions I have are A) will they actually publish the results and B) Will they actually read the responses and act accordingly.

    94% was against instapalms, and yet here they are. And an internal membership polls result still have not been released.

    Pretty sure we know the answers.  Surveys are taken to justify and support decisions already made

    • Upvote 1

  4. 22 minutes ago, malraux said:

    Found where it came from: https://www.scouting.org/programs/cub-scouts/activities/cub-scout-camping/

    “Packs may not conduct campouts longer then overnight. “

    that said, I’m not sure how binding those pages are. I know the pages on the ranks gets interpreted incorrectly about how the webelos program works. 

    So reading the referenced "Pack Overnight Campout Site Appraisal Form", assume you can camp in your backyard, if it's astroturf like the Brady Bunch and nobody is throwing a ball.  Anywhere else would be tough.

    Wonder what the actual definition of "hazards" may be.  Would a footbridge, lake, or hill be a hazard??

    1. The camping site is clean and safe from hazards. __________ __________
    2. The site is not located near any natural or manmade hazards. __________ __________
    3. Campsite areas are available for tents. __________ __________
    4. Facilities are available for proper sanitary disposal of garbage. __________ __________
    5. Drinking water from an approved source is provided at convenient locations. __________ __________
    6. Emergency medical services (EMS) are available within 30 minutes from site. __________ __________
    7. Cellular phone service is available. __________ __________
    8. If fires are permitted, an adequate fire lay area is provided. __________ __________
    9. Any individual site hookups provided for electricity, water, or sewer meet
    all appropriate local and state health codes. __________ __________
    10. Each family site is located within 300 feet of a sanitary toilet facility. __________ __________
    11. Shelter is available for program activities during inclement weather. 

  5. 12 minutes ago, JasonG172 said:

    I round ours up to 34$, lol I like whole numbers haha.  I really hope no more than $20, I don't want to see more than $10 but noone has asked me. 

    Myself, 14 year old and now my new Lion, it would most certainly make me start considering what to do. I agree YES it is still much cheaper than other sporting activities in our area but we also have on going events (campouts, summer camps) that figure in to our "yearly" expenses which I promise would exceed those other programs. 

    My pack camps almost every other month, the troop camps every month. Average cost of event for the Pack $12ea, for the troop $25ea 


    Agree it could be a cause for concern.

    Our troop charges $100 annually for dues (no fundraisers), then pay as you go for outings.  

    9 regular outings that run about $15 each, 1 winter trip that runs about $50, 2 summers camps, each about $350.  If a Scout attended all events, it would be $935 annually.  Note that most of our leaders contribute the gas used for outings.  Meals for outings would be extra.  That being said the Scout would have 15 to 16 nights camping for weekends, 12 nights camping at Summer camps.  It is a good value. 

    Admittedly if the National Fee goes up maybe $50, that would be a 5% increase if you attend everything, but a 50% increase in our annual dues.  It would still be a tough pill to swallow.

  6. 26 minutes ago, 69RoadRunner said:

    At summer camp last year, there was a troop of all boys with just 2 female adult leaders.  I have no problem with that, but saying 2 adult male leaders for a group with 1 or more girls is gender bias.  

    Having different rules for men and women seems like something that will result in legal challenges.  

    You are assuming the male leaders identify as male...one cannot assume in the this brave new world.  I do actually wonder how that would play out.  All female troop, one male leader identifying as male and one currently biological male that identifies as female; is this in compliance with YPT?

  7. 51 minutes ago, Treflienne said:

    Would I really want to send a small group of teenage girls on a camping trip to be supervised by young men in their early twenties?  Sorry.  Not a good idea in my mind. 

    That is an interesting sentiment.  Is the world really that dark?  A predator behind every tree?  If YPT guidelines are followed there should not be any issue.  With all the gender inclusiveness it should be "youth" and then "adults (over 21)"  End of story.

    • Upvote 1

  8. I wonder if he had worked at the local Auto Parts store if his employer would have been included in the story?  

    Many Scouts and those that work at camps do not realize they are in fact held to a higher standard.  

    2 minutes ago, TravelerJoe said:

    Is this really surprising to people?  Maybe people need to re-read the philmont article in Outside from the late 90'/early 00's.

    Forgot about that one, sort of read like a Grateful Dead experience.....

  9. The possibilities are endless:

    • Prettiest Fish caught
    • Cutest fish caught
    • Slimiest Fish caught
    • Most fish dropped on the ground
    • Falling in the lake award
    • Dropping rod and reel in the lake award
    • Most hooks in your clothes award
    • Most worms/bait lost to fish 
    • Furthest cast
    • Shortest cast


    • Haha 1

  10. Surprised it took this long for the issue to be acknowledged by the Wizards in Dallas and "shocked face" they made an exception.  His claims of gender bias is spot on and will not stand for much longer.

    I found this quote, that was attributed to Jeannine Szatkowski, who writes the Scouter Mom blog fascinating "Girls may have issues they only feel comfortable talking about with women, so it’s important they have a leader to go to, she said".  Not saying it does not have validity, but Wow, can you say double standard?  2 women can lead a boys den, but 2 men cannot lead a girls den.  Can you imagine if the same quote was used for justifying having a male requirement for the boys (or actually I guess those that identify as boys)?  People's heads would spin

    • Upvote 3

  11. 1 hour ago, walk in the woods said:

    Yep.  It's never been about gays or girls or atheists.  It's a postmodern requirement to "deconstruct" everything that contributes to what they perceive as immoral power hierarchies.  The BSA, by kowtowing, has signed it's own death warrant.  They will drive traditionalists from the program and pin their hopes on people who would rather see it dismantled. 


    I made this observation years ago, the groups that do not like the BSA will not be pleased until there is no BSA.  The organization is operating from the viewpoint that there will be compromise and we will move on with the program.  Many who advocate for "change" do not want the program to move on and continue, they want it gone.  The groups do not in fact have the same goal.

    The basic concept is that an organization should never attempt to please everybody; it’s simply impossible. They should try to please your constituency, your fans, your close friends; they will win over the unbelievers.

    • Upvote 2

  12. 19 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

    Why not just tell them that the boys will start as a group and it will be up to them if they want it to stay that way.

    Explain that the boys choose their own patrols - so if they want to remain as a group, just choose to stay together as a patrol.  Explain that advancement is at their own pace and you'd be happy if the boys all helped each other and advanced at a similar pace.

    Of course, we all know that once in the troop, friendships will change and interest levels will vary.  But, as parents of a den that's been together for years, they don't see that yet.  They are more worried that you're going to force the group to split up.  Explain that this isn't the case and that as a Scout led troop you'll do no such thing.

    Funny part is we sort of do that.  When the Webelos cross over in the spring they have a new scout program April and May.  Then summer camps, when we start back to regular meetings in August they are rolled into the existing patrols.  For our troop we have found success in keeping a set number of patrols then add new Scouts to these as needed as they older Scouts age out.  That works for us and provides continuity and encourages the older and more experienced Scouts to actually work with the new Scouts.

    They sort of wanted a guarantee of keeping them together, making sure they were lockstep.  One parent in particular want to know when their Scout would be at X rank and what our "plan" was for advancement.  Also wanted to know what specific requirements would be worked on at which outings so they could plan accordingly.  I got the deer in headlights look from them as we explained that outings were not for advancement, they were for fun and adventure.  IF a Scout needed to work on something, he certainly could, but that was up to him. 

    She asked if we "allowed" a Scout to go for a few years and not advance a rank...we said yep.  We don't monitor.  You can lead a Scout to an outing, but you can't make him advance.

    Not sure she appreciated the humor.  We explained there were many good units in the area.

  13. Are any other units seeing the Web III syndrone as you have Webelos come visiting troops?  We had the some come visit, the parents wanted assurances that their den (patrol??) would be kept together and "allowed" to progress together.  They have been friends since whenever blah blah blah

    We had a conversation that in our unit we roll the new Scouts into the patrols, this helps them become part of the troop and function within the troop.  As they work with the more experienced Scouts they will learn Scouting Skills, group dynamics, etc etc.  We explained that while they will work with their patrol, they will be on outings with the troop, so they can be with their current friends, they can hang their hammocks together, etc. 

    Also I made the comment that many boys who are close friends in 5th grade may not be as inseparable by 7th or 8th grade and time in middle school.  Expanding their ability to interact outside their close friend group is a positive trait.  Not sure my input was believed.

    When we discussed that Scouts move through the ranks at their own pace, and not as a group they wanted to know who monitors their advancement progress.  We explained that the troop has many resources to assist and we are there as needed, but each Scout moves at their pace and is responsible for their own progress.  They explained that another unit would keep their Webelos den together as a patrol and work with them to make sure they advance, up to and including Eagle Scout.  Our feedback was that our main emphasis was to have Scouts plan and attend the outings, to have fun, to have challenging rewarding activities, and to have personal growth.  Advancement comes as a result of these activities and does not drive the activities.  We noted that we have a good number of Eagle Scouts annually (maybe 35% of the ones in the district) because we have an environment that keeps older Scouts engaged and active.

    This is not the first group of families to express this...was wondering if other units were seeing this.  "Can you mold your program to what I need?"

  14. 19 hours ago, desertrat77 said:

    Do scouts even read BL any more?  The youth are the intended audience but I don't hear the scouts speak of it.  Ever.  My Venturer would never look at it, and she's a certified bookworm and outdoorsy type. 


    When National raised the rates last time (by $12) our annual dues had always included BL for all Scouts.  Moving forward we kept the dues the same and let the Scouts choose Y or N for an additional $12 if they wanted BL.  Not sure if any of the Scouts take BL any longer

    • Upvote 1

  15. 1 hour ago, HashTagScouts said:

    I share some pessimism on whether we are headed to some great rebirth or massive membership increase.  Scouts Canada went through similar progressive reshape of their organization, and for many of the same reasons that many are citing today as to why the BSA "is on the right track".  The result? Membership of youth participants is on the decline yet again for Scouts Canada: 

    2013-2014  88,453

    2017-2018  58,881



    But but...we've been told that Scouts Canada is the success story that Scouts BSA is following??  Was the entire story not revealed?

  16. 1 hour ago, walk in the woods said:

    I should add

    • BSA has a relationship with the NRA
    • BSA teaches scouts to murder and butcher fish
    • BSA promotes scout Sunday thereby disenfranchising their open/closeted atheist members

    to my second list of bullets above.  The list is almost endless...

    Also BSA may have issues with these activities

    • Firebuilding - which contributes to global warming
    • Citizenship in the Nation - which continues to support the capitalistic dogma the country was founded on
    • Knife basics - which promotes use of (yikes) a knife
    • Fingerprinting - Which supports the overreaching police state
    • Swimming - which promotes class separation as not everyone has equal access to a pool
    • Automotive Maintenance - which also promotes class separation as not everyone has equal access to a car
    • Upvote 3

  17. 10 minutes ago, carebear3895 said:

    Does your council not have an executive board? 

    Oh yeah.  But with a CEO SE that makes close to $500 grand and a Deputy SE, other various directors, multiple development directors. multiple field directors, it is pretty obvious who calls the shots.  Council President changes every 2 - 3 years, so the continuity lays with the pros.  

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