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Posts posted by Jameson76

  1. 1 hour ago, mrkstvns said:

    I keep hoping they'll revise it so that A and B fit on 1 single piece of paper (front/back).  It would make it easier for troops to maintain their set of forms and it would be half us much paper for camps.

    With all the legal clowns involved, surprised it doesn't run 12 pages, not including amendments and exhibits....

  2. 12 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

    Ask the organizer (might not be the Scout shop) because it depends on them. They usually have a plan for delivering the gift and many don't want it wrapped so they can verify the gift.  


    Agree on ask the organizer.  Hopefully they have a method.

    One of our Scouts Eagle projects was organizing with the local middle school a giving tree for Christmas.  A good bit of double blind so nobody knew who was getting the gifts, they shopped and then wrapped and labeled as per the school counselor instructions.  The Scouts had a fun time shopping.

  3. Typically the COR is not directly involved with the unit operations as a COR.  Seems this COR wants to be the CM or CC, he may want to be large and in charge because that's what he wants to do and NOT what you need or want him to do.

    The Chartered Organization Representative (COR) is the direct contact between the unit and the Chartered Organization. This individual is also the organization's contact with the District Committee and the Local Council. ... If the chartered organization has more than one unit, one representative serves them all.

    Nothing in that involves direct unit operations / program

    There is a pretty good guide - https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/04-113.pdf

    Below is sort of what they are supposed to do, run program is not really one of these.

    ❑ Serve as a member of the unit Key 3 team and meet together several times a year.
    ❑ Serve as a liaison between your units, your organization, and the council structure.
    ❑ Encourage unit leaders and committee members to take advantage of training opportunities and to regularly attend district roundtables.
    ❑ Promote well-planned unit programs.
    ❑ Organize units to serve the youth needs of your organization and the community.
    ❑ Promote the recruitment of new members.
    ❑ See that youth participants and adult volunteers advance from one program phase to the next.
    ❑ Assist with annual unit charter renewal.
    ❑ Suggest unit Good Turns for your organization.
    ❑ Encourage unit committee meetings.
    ❑ Encourage the pursuit of Journey to Excellence performance.
    ❑ inform and engage organization leaders and members.
    ❑ Encourage active outdoor unit programs.
    ❑ Emphasize advancement and recognition.
    ❑ Secure district help when needed.
    ❑ Use approved unit finance policies.
    ❑ Encourage recognition of leaders.
    ❑ Cultivate resources to support your organization’s units.
    ❑ Represent your organization on the council and district levels.
    ❑ Serve on your council’s relationship committees when asked

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  4. On 10/16/2008 at 11:12 AM, Buffalo Skipper said:

    --We interrupt this thread for a minor hijacking--This past summer we went to Skymont Scout Camp near Monteagle, TN.  On the way we passed through South Pittsburgh, TN, home of the Lodge factory (and only factory outlet store).  I could not convince the other leaders to stop, even though it was only 5 miles off the freeway.  More curious, however, one of the CITs for the new scout program, is a member of the troop from South Pittsburgh, and it is chartered by Lodge.  He assured me that ALL their "car camping" cookware was cast iron. Some troops have all the luck...  Also related, Skymont has a daily Cast Iron Skillet Award (dates back some 20 years, and they are all hanging in the dining hall).  Any guess where they get these?--We now return you to your regular scheduled thread--

    We stopped there heading back from Skymont  Got a replacement lid for a dutch oven

    Skymont clean site award is the Cracked Skillet award.  Much to our surprise we actually have won it a few time

    • Thanks 1

  5. 23 hours ago, dkurtenbach said:
    • Commissioner role is not commonly understood; Approach to unit service varies in performance and effectiveness    

    Again people speak of commissioners and the reason the role is not commonly understood is that so few folks / units have actually seen one.  They may file reports, but very few are seen in the wild.

    The commissioner should know the units leaders, the CC's of the units, the key unit leaders (not the leader or CC, but the ones who actually gets stuff done).  This would entail more than maybe an annual visit.  Honestly if you query most units about their commissioner you will get "who??" or "what??"

    Not saying it could not or should not be a useful role, but the execution is often times lacking.

  6. 7 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

    To answer my own question, from the 2017 Annual Report page 19

    Assets page 4 Notes to Consolidated Financial Statements($ stated in thousands)

    Note 5. Land, Buildings, and Equipment

    At December 31, 2017, land, buildings, and equipment comprised the following:

    National office, less accumulated depreciation of $19,212


    High-adventure bases, less accumulated depreciation of $30,383


    National Distribution Center, less accumulated depreciation of $6,948


    Summit Bechtel Family National Scout Reserve, less accumulated depreciation of $39,273


    Furniture, equipment, and software, less accumulated depreciation and amortization of $79,066


    Total land, buildings,and equipment, less accumulated depreciation and amortization of $174,882


    Depreciation and amortization expense was $21,634 in 2017.

    High-adventure bases include Philmont Scout Ranch, Florida Sea Base, and Northern Tier

    If I read the financial statement correctly, it appears a $446 million line of credit  mortgage would be the full value of Philmont and then some .  Going for broke?  :(


    Wait - Summit Bechtel Family National Scout Reserve is valued at $371 million dollars?  The site is maybe 13,000 acres, that would be $28,500 per acre.  Seems a bit pricey.....

  7. It all depends on how you approach STEM, you have to work it into the program

    - We were at a canyon hiking the rim, we posed the question, if we throw Timmy off, how long until he hits the bottom if the bottom is 700 ft?  That lead to the speed and acceleration discussions.  Also how much force would be needed to get Timmy out far enough

    - We spotted the International Space Station on an outing, good discussion points on the station, geosynchronous orbits, etc

    - Time to get to an outing..if the campsite is XX miles away, and we drive XX miles per hour, when do we arrive?

    - How hot does the fire need to be to melt glass?  (surprisingly not that hot)

  8. 16 minutes ago, PACAN said:

    @ValleyBoy  Returned to council with letters yes.  Sent to National no.  Application is electronically sent to national 99% of the time.   SEs like to flip through their project binders prior to signing the application.

    We have never turned in the project book with Eagle application.  Our unit completes 12 to 14 Eagles annually.  The initial project is approved at the district, then reviewed at the EBOR, but that is it.  

    Pre-EBOR we turn in 2 page application to service center and contact list, then post EBOR application with signatures

  9. 3 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

    Elon Musk?  Steve Ballmer?  Kevin Plank?


    2 hours ago, dkurtenbach said:


    Robert Gates?

    Sadly they (BSA National) does not seem to look for outside talent.  You have to be part of the club, raised in the club, dedicated to the club, in order to be anointed to run the club.  Likely some of the issues with finance and direction, currently impacting the organization, may have been lessened if leaders with some outside experience and different professional path had been in charge.

    • Upvote 4

  10. Just now, Jackdaws said:

    Hmm sounding like a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul then.   Hopefully not though. 

    Sadly it has been ongoing for a while.  This really stems from several items

    1) The cost for the Summit, this is a huge drain

    2) Pension Liabilities that are not fully funded for the professional Scouts

    3) General overhead not full contracted for current size of the organization

    4) Sub part of the that is the current Council Structure may not be the best to deliver Scouting to the local community

    5) General Medical Health Care costs, actually this impacts pretty much every business and organization

    6) The liability portion (not abuse cases) that are more prevalent, see above, due to everyone's rise in premiums, a lot of high deductibles, makes more sense to file on BSA insurance for a  sustained injury

    7) The abuse case money issue


    • Upvote 2

  11. 15 minutes ago, Jackdaws said:

    Anyone know recent years attendance #'s?   The fires out there effectively cancelling one year and this years Jambo had to have hurt attendance. 

    Banner year for the ranch.  You had normal traffic, those that signed up in 2017 for a 2019 trek.  Then you have some of those cancelled in 2018 who filled in for 2019.  Maybe 25,000, (typical is maybe 22,000) but that may not be accurate.  Much of the loss will never be recovered.

    In our case we had 24 Scouts and Leaders signed up for 2018.  Many did our hurried up Adventure Trek and called it good.  We had 4 from the 2018 group plus 4 others not signed up for 2018 attend this summer.  We will have 2 of the 2018 attend in 2020.

    So in a very small sample, of the original 24 - 6 will do a 12 day Philmont trek.  That is 25%

  12. I don't think one could disagree with this statement:

    “The reality there is we didn’t really leave them; they kind of left us,” said M. Russell Ballard, acting president of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. “The direction they were going was not consistent to what we feel our youth need to have ... to survive in the world that lies ahead for them.”

    One could certainly argue whether they agree with stated positions of the Mormon Church, but they are what they are.  Fact is the BSA has made changes in membership requirements.  

    The BSA felt they needed to make changes to be more inclusive, the Mormon Church feels they need to adhere to their values.  In this case both groups are in many ways correct.  The outcome (in my opinion) is not good for either group.  BSA is losing 20% of their membership while the Mormon Church is becoming more insular and interacting less with non-Church groups.

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    • Upvote 2

  13. Just now, Pale Horse said:

    Then they probably should have consulted a real-estate attorney to explain it to them instead of publishing a story they don't understand. This transaction appears to be nothing more than updating and increasing the Line of Credit that BSA has been able to draw upon (with Philmont being the collateral) since 2010.


    Question is - what is the plan (if there is one) to rather than live on a Line of Credit, actually be somewhat revenue neutral.  Agree with the Summit burning money like a drunken sailor

  14. 4 hours ago, MattR said:

    Are there Cliff notes for this? I got 30 seconds into it and it reminded me of talking to my 92 year old dad when he has something really important to tell me, but Can't. Get. To. The. Point.

    I skipped and sampled and all I got was kids can pick what they want to work on.

    First - the, I am assuming very nice gentleman, that started means well, but not sure if he is explaining or preaching.  There is a great deal of Mormon (LDS??) speak and their own language.  Not sure non LDS folks have the needed frame of reference.

    Quorum of 12 disciples?  Ward and Branch councils? You have been prompted?

    I wish them well as they progress along the covenant path.

  15. 28 minutes ago, Cubmaster Pete said:

    Yes, parents are going. And I would rather cook out there than eat freeze dried stuff, or sandwiches.

    I sat down with them (boys) and I asked what does everyone enjoy the most, they all said camping. I suggested a "backpacking" trip and they flipped out. Parents are on board too.

    This all stems off my oldests AOL experience that has been less than stellar. That's a whole other topic (If you ask nicely, I might tell you) Anyways, he was jealous of what we are doing, and told me he wants to come be in our den. He crosses over in February, and he is very much looking forward to Scouts BSA



    I remember (during the Reagan years) taking a Webelos den with my Explorer post on an overnight camping trip.  We did hiking, rapelling, and climbing.  Great chance for the Explorers to do instruction and move from doing to teaching.  They had a blast (Explorers / Webelos / Parents).  As the Webelos and parents talked with the Explorers we talked about an upcoming outing (the next month) which involved a ferry to a barrier island, hiking up the beach a few miles and camping behind the dunes for a couple of nights.  They tagged along and very much enjoyed the experience.

    Go have adventure, THAT is what will make Scouting continue to be great.

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  16. Sad part is that we feel the question has to be asked, or needs to be asked.

    Challenge is that scouting (universal) is local and rules are made at National.  There are Scouts BSA troops out there that likely do not have the wherewithal to do a mile hike and overnight camping.  On the flip side there are many Webelos (AOL??) groups that have enough depth of experience to do an effective backpacking trek

    My input, but then I'm a bit of a pirate, would be that if you feel the group can handle this adventure, go forth and enjoy.

    • Upvote 1

  17. Saw this and wonder where the breakdown was.

    The troubling detail (and it is only alleged) - 

    • The abuse allegedly took place “on multiple occasions”
    • at Boy Scout retreats and meetings
    • between January 2018 and November 2018

    This implies this is not a one incident issue, it happened at meetings (assume that was the weekly Troop meetings), it happened at retreats (assume that is outings), and it took place over a 10 to 11 month period.  Not sure what may be occurring with that troop and how is the 1 on 1 apparent access not being noted. 

    Meetings could be the guy gave the kid a ride to or from, which would be a violation, but could be how it happened.  Outings possibly the same. 

    Just wow, you certainly want to trust and rely on other leaders; with that being said, it is important to be situationally aware of what is occurring.


    • Upvote 1

  18. On 11/9/2019 at 9:58 PM, mashmaster said:

    Of course, I get a text from Mom and Dad today about how they needed to be present if I am ever to reprimand him again.  And that while he understood what I was saying, I didn't listen to his side of the story. Sigh.....

    We had something along those lines from some parents, "hey you are being unfair, not listening to their kids side, we should have involved them, etc etc".  Honestly was surprised because we, as you seemed to have done, approached the issue (and it was not the first one) as a teaching moment, this was leaders to Scouts and the NEXT step if this persisted would been to have a sit down with Scout and Parents.

    Sooo they came in and we sat down, talked about some prior challenges, they asked why they were not looped in.  We reminded them we had in fact touched on some of the challenges with Dad at a few of the outing return times...Mom looked at Dad...dad looked at the floor, but again we wanted the Scout to grow and take responsibility.  They had some pushback, Scout sort of looked smug like he may be winning this and we were being put in our place (honestly my opinion of the Scout changed through all of this process).

    We then pivoted on the family and explained that we understood their concerns, going forward one (or both) obviously needed to be at meeting, outings, summer camp to be available if there were challenges, no phone would not in fact work.  They would need to get back with us.  A few weeks later moved to another troop and actually got tossed out of that one for some behavior.  Understand from some of the Scouts he had some School challenges also

    • Upvote 1

  19. 9 hours ago, MikeS72 said:

    Yep.  We are camping next weekend, and I am sure I will hear a few comments about how cold they are, as it is supposed to drop down to 68 Friday night!

    There with you...we are camping this weekend, and it will get down to 34 on Friday night, 36 on Saturday.  For us, that will be like Siberia.   That being said, some will be in shorts.

    Honestly, we rarely have days where it does not get above freezing for some portion of the day.  In the last 20 years we have camped where some snow came down maybe 3 times, accumulation once.  We had to head to the mountain to experience that

    10 hours ago, mrkstvns said:

    Before you go to bed, turn your water containers upside down (assuming they don't leak).  Water tends to freeze from the top down, and if you turn your water jug upside down, the layer of ice will form on the BOTTOM of your water jug, not at the top, so you'll still be able to get water out of it in the morning when you wake up and start fixing breakfast.  Try it at home with a water bottle in your freezer....it works!


    Yeah...if the water's freezing in the tent, we would be waaaay out of our element.

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