Eagle1993

When did you quit? I'm talking now, not 2014 and prior. I would agree that during Dale it probably got rough. My ASM was clear when we discussed this recently .. it helps. He has talked with Harvard, Yale interviewers ... it helps. Notre Dame ... helps. We have had Eagle Scouts do well at Ivy through mid tier colleges. We have examples. That said, it won't help if you can't answer questions. He has said it show perseverance and achievement of a goal. I think parents make the mistake thinking their son/daughter just needs to get Eagle Scout on the resume and they're golden. If they go to an Eagle mill, I don't see the benefit. (Yeah, its on the resume, but did they really learn anything?) Now, if while earning Eagle, your son/daughter got over a fear, learned new skills, took on a role they wouldn't have been comfortable with, lead a team, failed, succeeded, etc. ... that is the real value. Then they take that value and explain it during an interview and its a winner. The rank on the app is really just a minor part of the story .. the value is what they did to earn that rank.

I tend to agree. The only value I see is that the trademark owner could charge BSA a fee to keep using Eagle Scout rank going forward. BSA knows Eagle Scout pulls in some recruits. Perhaps its paid by charging a fee when submitting an Eagle Scout application. Every ES app is charged $50 which goes to the trademark owner. That could be a $1M per year annuity. You might be able to get something assuming BSA survives and there is a 20 year agreement to use Eagle Scout as the top rank. Assuming a 5% rate of return and $1M of annual payment going forward and a 20 year agreement, the Eagle Scout Rank would be worth about $13M today. Again ... its only valuable if the BSA survives. If that rank transfers as an award for another organization, I think the value drops a ton as it won't be seen in the same light.

If a camp is sold and its used for camping or conservation, it makes bitter pills easier to swallow. I've seen a camp sold and all the trees cut for a lumber company. Yes, I know it has to come from somewhere, but there is nothing more sad then seeing a former scout camp clear cut.

I have a ASM who interviews for a top 10 school and talks with the interviewers from Harvard, Yale, etc. Eagle Scout is a BENEFIT. He is nudging his sons to get there as well. It can vary how much of a benefit based on the interviewer, but it is a benefit. Yes ... BSA organization was not looked on well by higher education when it excluded gay scouts, but for the most part that didn't tarnish the Eagle Scout rank. Internally we may question age or rigor but externally that is not questioned nearly as much as we may think. Trying to get this back to bankruptcy a bit ... it is a very valued asset. There are articles even today as Girl Scouts have yet to amplify their Gold award in the same way BSA has its Eagle. In terms of value ... how much would a GSUSA or even TrailLife pay for the Eagle Scout trademark?

One my my ASMs is an interviewer for an elite college (top 5 school for business, journalism, etc.) top 10 overall. Eagle Scout is a benefit on applications. How much of a benefit probably depends on who interviews you. I went to a state school, but apparently, elite colleges have one of their alumni interview you and they then tell the college what they think. I have never heard or seen any evidence it is a strike against applicants.

I would think most councils knew in 2018 of the financial peril of BSA. It was documented in their annual report. https://scoutingwire.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/2017-Annual-Report-Combined-FINAL-App-Version.pdf

I would be careful assuming those will be deemed valid. Take a look at the Milwaukee Archdiocese cemetery trust fund. You'll see some familiar names. 3 years before going into bankruptcy, the Milwaukee Archdiocese moved a large amount of $ into a trust fund to maintain cemeteries (and marked it as restricted assets). The OCC (think TCC) said it was an fraudulent transfer. So, expect the TCC or lawyers to sue to say those easements/deed restricts are not valid.... Note below that this case was headed to the Supreme Court (possibly) but a settlement occurred so the case was moot. Perhaps we are simply headed to a slugfest for the next 4 more years ... we will see... https://mediatbankry.com/2016/05/05/dont-let-this-happen-to-you-milwaukee-archdiocese-bankruptcy-part-three-the-in-court-slugfest/

Shouldn't this be as easy as a table that states: Entity Total Assets Total Unrestricted assets Amount provided to Trust Then fill in for BSA and every council. The TCC could then review and argue if they believe the asset amounts listed are incorrect or if the amount provided to the trust is not a sufficient percentage of the unrestricted assets. I agree its complex, but it sounds like TCC has already assessed 500 properties and could probably verify that table. Given TCC's response, it seems like either BSA isn't providing sufficient information or are not providing an offer sufficient to settle. While I agree councils in SOL states will be at high risk, given 11,000 claims since 2000, even non liberal SOL state councils could be at risk. There is a ton of variety with SOL ... this site shows details state by state. https://childusa.org/law/ (FYI, I feel creepy searching for statue of limitations sex abuse ... I'm sure I'll be added to a FBI watch list at some point.)

The problem is ... a single case can result in a very large verdict. For example, the 2010 Oregon case of a $18.5M verdict for 1 case is a warning. https://abcnews.go.com/WN/boy-scouts-pay-man-185m-punitive-damages/story?id=10463429 Most councils could face 10s if not hundreds of cases. I doubt they can handle the legal fees let alone 1 or 2 losses of this magnitude.

I question the need/pressure for new units ... unless they are in areas where there are no existing units. In my area, it seems like MOST of the new unit discussions I have heard of were in areas where there were existing units. I didn't understand it. Why not simply identify a good unit in that area and help then recruit members from the other school. It seems like we spread recruits too thin when we add too many units. Then, there are areas (primarily inner city) where there are no nearby units. I've had parents contact me from the inner city but decide they were not interested as it would be tough to get their kids to my unit. I always pondered if BSA would work on getting funding (from grants, UnitedWay, etc.) and partner with inner city churches if they would see their minority ranks grow. I know their current path is ScoutReach, but I think churches may be a better partner. I don't know much about ScoutReach so perhaps that is a good model.

Seems to be fixed! Site it flying again! Thanks!

I see no path where there is an agreement to protect LCs and COs. The complexity is just too great. National BSA declared bankruptcy. Settle out their assets. Let the lawsuits against COs and LCs to proceed. They can declare bankruptcy if appropriate. I see now other path given how complex. It’s interesting to see the $102B estimate.

So ... I'm guessing the intense mediation session this week is not likely resolving the differences.

There have been several rejects to the BSA plan filed by various lawfirms. See one example below. https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/884597_2497.pdf I've noticed an interesting trend. All include this information: So, it seems clear that on the claimants side, the belief is that given out BSA is structured, if national liquidates, it will mean the liquidation of the entire BSA assets (all councils). I(This is only one side of the legal argument I am sure, but it does indicate ALL councils could be at risk, regardless of their individual claims or SOL laws).

I love the idea of rapid testing at summer camps. The temperature checks are a joke as many people (especially kids) do not have fevers with Covid-19. All summer camps should be open this summer, end of story. Its not just a matter of what mitigations you have to take, depending on Covid rates in the community. We have a year+ of experience and should know how to handle it. Great to see the news coming in!

Very interesting article. Looks like a research firm (not sure if paid by BSA) looked into why BSA is not more popular among Black, Latinx, and Asian populations. This is just one study, but I found it interesting. https://www.kpcnews.com/opinions/article_2e2ebb7c-a04c-5286-b4e5-22a6dbbd9b09.html

That is interesting as it is AFTER the Disclosure Statement Approval Hearing. So essentially, after BSA's updated settlement offer. That makes me think the estimation will have more impact on the insurance claims than on the BSA offer. Any idea when info will come out from the mediation session to be held tomorrow - Thursday this week? I wonder if it will give a key reading on how assets will be confirmed as restricted (or not) and which LCs are (are not) participating. I have my PLC meeting today and we are discussing high adventure trips in 2022 and 2023. At this point I will be telling them that I recommend avoiding the National BSA bases ... but I really hope I don't have to tell them all BSA bases are off limits. It would be great to know as planning can take years for the bigger trips. I'm trying to read the tea leaves....

It looks like BSA is selling through Amazon now. https://www.amazon.com/Scouts-BSA-Handbook-14th-Edition/dp/B084JG9PQ2/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Scout+Book&qid=1617027806&sr=8-1 https://www.amazon.com/sp?_encoding=UTF8&asin=&isAmazonFulfilled=1&isCBA=&marketplaceID=ATVPDKIKX0DER&orderID=&protocol=current&seller=A11OJQXOR06UFM&sshmPath= Looking at details, it appears some BSA items are Shipped through Amazon & Sold by BSA.

We had a situation at a summer camp a few years ago. Storm hit middle of night, constant lightning. Camp had us stay in tents as they felt the run/walk across an open field was more dangerous. It was nearly four hours of constant lightening... scouts were able to play cards without flashlights in their tents. One of the worst lightening storms I was in. Nearly no wind. It was a tough call either way. I think they probably should have evacuated us before the storm hit but who knows how quickly it ramped up.

USC has a $5B endowment. They can pay this without bankruptcy or selling buildings and firing anyone. I think that is the big difference. BSA has made large payouts in the past $19.9M to a single victim. I think the current situation has more to do with the mass claims and limited assets instead of who the actual victims are.

I think the $300M comes down to ... restricted vs non restricted assets and which councils are contributing. In terms of restricted vs non restricted ... I would think the mediator should be able to help. Are the assets councils consider "restricted" truly restricted. For example, Three Fires Council indicated ~$3M of restricted assets. Does the TCC in their review agree and if not, that should go to mediation. Now multiply by 200 - 300 councils. The few councils I have heard from, are indicating they are providing nearly all of their "unrestricted assets". So the other question I would have is ... which councils are not participating. There could be a fair number that are not and if their assets are high, that could end up scuttling the settlement. I have no idea of $300M is far off anymore. My initial hunch was it seemed very low ... but now that I see a great camp being sold just to meet the $300M commitment I begin to wonder. I also know BSA has been selling camps for a decade plus and have seen major donors drop off. Perhaps each council is in financial stress and all that is left is a bunch of camps, already mortgaged and or donor restricted that are left.

I wonder if the tides turn on this as Boy Scout camps are sold and then clear cut. Local news interviewing young scouts about their sold camp, followed by loggers clear cutting old growth pine forests make an emotional appeal and will be grabbed quickly by Republicans as an example of “cancel culture” stopping legislation. I don’t know which way this goes... is the story Larry Nasser/organizational negligence or loss of current youth activities over generation old claims and tort big business. It could go either way. The question is if LCs from closed states are willing to take a bet.

Very little is being shared; however, my understanding is that there are a very low number of individuals in each council under NDA who know the plans. I doubt LCs would pull in their COs. Perhaps National is in talks with larger COs, I doubt this is occurring at the LC level.

To add an example from one council.

There seems to be three big questions that must be answered in the March mediation. What will be the National, LC and CO contributions to the fund. I think the insurance aspect cannot be covered until the estimates are complete for District Court. In terms of National, it’s pretty simple. Are the four HA based restricted assets. To me, it should simple be a matter of law. Are there clear deed/donor restrictions, does the JP Morgan debt take precedent on the claim and is Arrow WV separate. I expect the mediator should be able to help here and by simple I mean relative to the next to. LCs ... while very little is shared, due to NDAs, from digging through Facebook, a council presentation and Reddit comments it appears the $300M is nearly all the unrestricted assets from many councils. The questions I have... is that all councils or just councils at risk to further litigation. Also, how valid are the restrictions. This will be tougher to move as it involves either pulling in councils that might not be at risk of much litigation (for example from limited SOL states) or restricted assets. The Ad Hoc committee better be ready with a final number. At a certain point they may be better off walking away and allowing individual lawsuits. COs.... dead silence. I don’t see CO protection as part of the settlement. I just don’t see any COs feeling much risk. Just a hunch but we haven’t seen anything from them so far so I’d be surprised if we see movement. They may be better off not contributing and simply saying this is a BSA issue. I guess I don’t have much hope for mediation outside National BSA’s contribution. You might see some minor movements in LCs. I was surprised the $300M was so low, but for the council that I am close to it meant selling their best camp property. If it is already coming to that at $300M I would be shocked there is a ton of unrestricted assets out there. This might just be a council by council legal fight going forward. We will see...