Eagle1993

I think in terms of the bankruptcy settlement, a long lasting legacy that is appropriate given the large number of victims, is for the insurance companies involved to agree to fund an independent agency like the IIHS but for youth protection. This could improve safety not only at BSA but all youth serving organizations. (Note: if you would want to discuss what BSA can do to improve youth protection, that could be in the linked topic above.)

I just started a new topic about ideas to improve safety. To me, outside of the camp property loss, is the other major outcome to expect from the bankruptcy.

Ok .. .that Chapter 11 topic drifts a lot, so I thought one area I struggle with is how we can actually reduce abuse in BSA (and youth organizations). I went to websites of BSA, GSUSA, Trail LIfe, 4H, Boys and Girls Club, AYSO and the BSA is the ONLY organization that talks about Youth Protection on their main page. I volunteer for sports teams, GSUSA and BSA ... BSA is the only one that required me to sit through 2 hours of training. These are not complaints, they are just brief comparisons as I am attempting to see what is out there that BSA is not doing. My one thought on how to improve safety comes from industry. In particular, the automotive industry. Over the last decades, cars have become more safe. There is no debate ... a crash that would have killed you 20+ years ago may leave you with minor injuries today. So, how did they do this? Was it lawsuits ... somewhat. Was it standards ... a bit. Was it legislation ... not so much. The number one reason cars are more safe today, is the IIHS. The IIHS is funded by insurance companies who have to pay claims when their drivers are hurt/injured. The IIHS safety ratings help drive insurance rates of cars ... but more than that ... they are public data that tells consumers which cars are safer. Do we need a IIHS for youth organizations? Essentially, an independent body of experts that can review the training, procedures, etc. for all major youth organizations that buy insurance and rate their safety level and have that publicly available. To be clear, each youth organization is not the same. Having a STEM team work on computer code is less dangerous than having a patrol go for a hike in a mountain range. So, it would be good to provide categories just like IIHS does. Think truck, sport car, van, SUV vs Outdoor/scouting, sports teams, STEM. I think, over time, this could improve safety protocols across all youth organizations. Just a thought on something that worked in another industry.

Your post stated "Youth Protection Training protocols used today were enacted" which is what I quoted. I did not re-word a post. We use different protocols today than in 1990. If you stated "when no one on one youth and adult contact started" I would agree. Youth Protection Training protocols are far beyond no one on one contact and two deep leadership. For instance, BSA only recently decided that 18 year olds are not considered adults in terms of Youth Protection Training.

This is incorrect. The training used today is new (~3 years old). Yes, that was when 2 deep leadership and no one on one contact started but BSA has been making various updates since. There was also changes to the background check process recently. This has been an evolving area for BSA and most youth organizations. Claiming there was a hard line in 1990 and no changes since is false.

I honestly don’t think that will be the trade off anymore. I used to think giving up an HA base may save a local council camp... but I doubt that is true. If BSA can prove it’s a restricted asset they should keep it. If it isn’t restricted then it should go to the trust.

Its disappointing that they are not more specific. What is missing in today's YPT and B2A. I have various sport and Girl Scout leaders who have taken BSA's YPT and are impressed. I'm sure there are improvements, I just haven't heard anything significant that says the whole organization should be destroyed and today's youth should not have access to any High Adventure camp or scout camp. Perhaps some of these individuals should talk with the hundreds of thousands of scouts that will be robbed of this opportunity. So, is she promoting Trail Life? Is that what she and Kosnoff want? Destroy BSA and promote Trail Life? Or Ben Carson is talking about starting Little Patriots. If I were them, I would take her statement as an endorsement.

https://thecirclenews.org/environment/the-boy-scouts-land-grabs-sexual-abuse-and-bankruptcy/ Native American News and Arts article ... a bit of everything ... but a big point that if Boy Scout Camps that were native lands have to be sold, they should be given back to Native people. Example camp listed above.

To me, that is why the BSA should be open book and show how much each council will contribute. If the low/no contributions are all coming from councils that are at low risk, perhaps that is acceptable. Or, perhaps, those councils are left out of the settlement. That way, the TCC is not removing future claims from councils with no payment in return. I'm not sure if that is an option, but I think you hit the real issue in this case which may be why a settlement is extremely difficult if it includes protection for all councils.

To be clear to all ... the Milwaukee Archdiocese was appealing. They won the lower court ruling but then lost on appeal. The courts ruled the transfer was illegal. They appealed to the Supreme Court and likely realized they would lose so they settled. We will likely see an example of this with Summit. Is Arrow WV a separate organization or is it really a shell organization fully operated by the BSA. TCC appears to be preparing to file lawsuit against JP Morgan about Arrow WV. That may be the test case of all of the council property ones that exist.

When did you quit? I'm talking now, not 2014 and prior. I would agree that during Dale it probably got rough. My ASM was clear when we discussed this recently .. it helps. He has talked with Harvard, Yale interviewers ... it helps. Notre Dame ... helps. We have had Eagle Scouts do well at Ivy through mid tier colleges. We have examples. That said, it won't help if you can't answer questions. He has said it show perseverance and achievement of a goal. I think parents make the mistake thinking their son/daughter just needs to get Eagle Scout on the resume and they're golden. If they go to an Eagle mill, I don't see the benefit. (Yeah, its on the resume, but did they really learn anything?) Now, if while earning Eagle, your son/daughter got over a fear, learned new skills, took on a role they wouldn't have been comfortable with, lead a team, failed, succeeded, etc. ... that is the real value. Then they take that value and explain it during an interview and its a winner. The rank on the app is really just a minor part of the story .. the value is what they did to earn that rank.

I tend to agree. The only value I see is that the trademark owner could charge BSA a fee to keep using Eagle Scout rank going forward. BSA knows Eagle Scout pulls in some recruits. Perhaps its paid by charging a fee when submitting an Eagle Scout application. Every ES app is charged $50 which goes to the trademark owner. That could be a $1M per year annuity. You might be able to get something assuming BSA survives and there is a 20 year agreement to use Eagle Scout as the top rank. Assuming a 5% rate of return and $1M of annual payment going forward and a 20 year agreement, the Eagle Scout Rank would be worth about $13M today. Again ... its only valuable if the BSA survives. If that rank transfers as an award for another organization, I think the value drops a ton as it won't be seen in the same light.

If a camp is sold and its used for camping or conservation, it makes bitter pills easier to swallow. I've seen a camp sold and all the trees cut for a lumber company. Yes, I know it has to come from somewhere, but there is nothing more sad then seeing a former scout camp clear cut.

I have a ASM who interviews for a top 10 school and talks with the interviewers from Harvard, Yale, etc. Eagle Scout is a BENEFIT. He is nudging his sons to get there as well. It can vary how much of a benefit based on the interviewer, but it is a benefit. Yes ... BSA organization was not looked on well by higher education when it excluded gay scouts, but for the most part that didn't tarnish the Eagle Scout rank. Internally we may question age or rigor but externally that is not questioned nearly as much as we may think. Trying to get this back to bankruptcy a bit ... it is a very valued asset. There are articles even today as Girl Scouts have yet to amplify their Gold award in the same way BSA has its Eagle. In terms of value ... how much would a GSUSA or even TrailLife pay for the Eagle Scout trademark?

One my my ASMs is an interviewer for an elite college (top 5 school for business, journalism, etc.) top 10 overall. Eagle Scout is a benefit on applications. How much of a benefit probably depends on who interviews you. I went to a state school, but apparently, elite colleges have one of their alumni interview you and they then tell the college what they think. I have never heard or seen any evidence it is a strike against applicants.

I would think most councils knew in 2018 of the financial peril of BSA. It was documented in their annual report. https://scoutingwire.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/2017-Annual-Report-Combined-FINAL-App-Version.pdf

I would be careful assuming those will be deemed valid. Take a look at the Milwaukee Archdiocese cemetery trust fund. You'll see some familiar names. 3 years before going into bankruptcy, the Milwaukee Archdiocese moved a large amount of $ into a trust fund to maintain cemeteries (and marked it as restricted assets). The OCC (think TCC) said it was an fraudulent transfer. So, expect the TCC or lawyers to sue to say those easements/deed restricts are not valid.... Note below that this case was headed to the Supreme Court (possibly) but a settlement occurred so the case was moot. Perhaps we are simply headed to a slugfest for the next 4 more years ... we will see... https://mediatbankry.com/2016/05/05/dont-let-this-happen-to-you-milwaukee-archdiocese-bankruptcy-part-three-the-in-court-slugfest/

Shouldn't this be as easy as a table that states: Entity Total Assets Total Unrestricted assets Amount provided to Trust Then fill in for BSA and every council. The TCC could then review and argue if they believe the asset amounts listed are incorrect or if the amount provided to the trust is not a sufficient percentage of the unrestricted assets. I agree its complex, but it sounds like TCC has already assessed 500 properties and could probably verify that table. Given TCC's response, it seems like either BSA isn't providing sufficient information or are not providing an offer sufficient to settle. While I agree councils in SOL states will be at high risk, given 11,000 claims since 2000, even non liberal SOL state councils could be at risk. There is a ton of variety with SOL ... this site shows details state by state. https://childusa.org/law/ (FYI, I feel creepy searching for statue of limitations sex abuse ... I'm sure I'll be added to a FBI watch list at some point.)

The problem is ... a single case can result in a very large verdict. For example, the 2010 Oregon case of a $18.5M verdict for 1 case is a warning. https://abcnews.go.com/WN/boy-scouts-pay-man-185m-punitive-damages/story?id=10463429 Most councils could face 10s if not hundreds of cases. I doubt they can handle the legal fees let alone 1 or 2 losses of this magnitude.

I question the need/pressure for new units ... unless they are in areas where there are no existing units. In my area, it seems like MOST of the new unit discussions I have heard of were in areas where there were existing units. I didn't understand it. Why not simply identify a good unit in that area and help then recruit members from the other school. It seems like we spread recruits too thin when we add too many units. Then, there are areas (primarily inner city) where there are no nearby units. I've had parents contact me from the inner city but decide they were not interested as it would be tough to get their kids to my unit. I always pondered if BSA would work on getting funding (from grants, UnitedWay, etc.) and partner with inner city churches if they would see their minority ranks grow. I know their current path is ScoutReach, but I think churches may be a better partner. I don't know much about ScoutReach so perhaps that is a good model.

Seems to be fixed! Site it flying again! Thanks!

I see no path where there is an agreement to protect LCs and COs. The complexity is just too great. National BSA declared bankruptcy. Settle out their assets. Let the lawsuits against COs and LCs to proceed. They can declare bankruptcy if appropriate. I see now other path given how complex. It’s interesting to see the $102B estimate.

So ... I'm guessing the intense mediation session this week is not likely resolving the differences.

There have been several rejects to the BSA plan filed by various lawfirms. See one example below. https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/884597_2497.pdf I've noticed an interesting trend. All include this information: So, it seems clear that on the claimants side, the belief is that given out BSA is structured, if national liquidates, it will mean the liquidation of the entire BSA assets (all councils). I(This is only one side of the legal argument I am sure, but it does indicate ALL councils could be at risk, regardless of their individual claims or SOL laws).

I love the idea of rapid testing at summer camps. The temperature checks are a joke as many people (especially kids) do not have fevers with Covid-19. All summer camps should be open this summer, end of story. Its not just a matter of what mitigations you have to take, depending on Covid rates in the community. We have a year+ of experience and should know how to handle it. Great to see the news coming in!