Eagle1993

Yeah, I am really interested if this is pre or post Covid. Most recharters didn't really become official until January 2021. That is when the real impact of Covid would show up. For example, my Pack went from ~50 scouts in December 2020 to 24 scouts in January 2021. I expect many others as well. However, the 2020 numbers are so low ... I really hope they include Covid. I do concur that we should see a rebound this fall. I plan a major push as we get back to outings, indoor meetings, etc.

Texas agree for now, but that can change in 10 - 15 years. All you need is a case where someone raped a bunch of kids, was known by the institution but nothing can be done due to SOL (ie, they came forward at 21). The public will scream and legislation will pass. There are some pretty Republican states that have SOL reform passed, so it is not necessarily a R vs D discussion. When the discussion is nebulous, it is easier to ignore and see this as trial lawyers vs great institutions. Once you have real names, stories and a pretty big instance of negligence, the pitch forks will c

I'll also state that having separate LLCs does not mean they are necessarily separate. For example, my company has 100s of LLCs ... but if my company went bankrupt, they wouldn't be able to say certain LLCs are not bankrupt as they are 1 corp. Given that, I do wonder what is the legal framework. I think the financial side is concerning. For example, can a council leave BSA, take the council assets and join a different scouting organization? Lets say BPSA ramps up and my council takes its camps, employees and assets and redeploys them to generate BPSA units. Is that allowed? If

I guess my question is about Catholic Dioceses. They have been going through bankruptcy and treated separate. Why wouldn't the same apply to LCs?

A lot of this has to be Covid impact, correct? Are the 2020 numbers late 2020 or January 2020. If they are January 2020 we are in SERIOUS trouble. If late 2020, I think it will bounce back. My other question is strategy going forward. We have a lot of small units in my area. All of us struggle to get enough volunteers. Is it time for BSA councils to look through their unit lists and work with unit leaders on a consolidation plan? I am Scoutmaster for a Troop, CC and Den leader for a Pack. I cannot and do not do all 3 of these well and my primary focus is as SM. However, I ca

That was my understanding, but if so, why did the BSA simply not provide the clear documentation of this to the TCC? Also, if that is the case, how could the BSA use it as collateral for a loan? If BSA defaults on the loan, the land would go back to the family and the bank would be left with nothing. I hope it's true, but it may be lore or not legally binding/documented.

I think that is one of the debates in the courts. To me, this is the #1 question on the table. How liable are our local councils? My understanding that if the court determines that LCs are separate and there is no negotiated settlement, lawsuits could start against COs and LCs. Then, the state court where those lawsuits are brought would determine liability on a case by case basis and results would follow state law. If these cases then drive LCs into bankruptcy court, that court would take over for each LC. I wouldn't be surprised that councils in certain states would end up in ban

Well, it should be easier to get our desired Treks at Philmont going forward.... assuming we still own it.

Looking through the claims, GSUSA is asking for $8.4M and BSA's offer is $50K.

Found this from earlier in this thread. Has BSA provided this information? It sounds like this talks to the points @ThenNow is making. The TCC needs the Restricted Asset Information to assess the factual and legal basis for any claimed restriction for the purpose of making an accurate financial assessment of each Local Council. Determination of whether donor-restricted assets should be excluded from a financial analysis is complicated, and may require some or all of the following information:  The donor or source of the asset;  The identity of the initial recipient of each

I think this is very common. I know the 3 camps we utilize all have ranger homes. Those guys aren't the ones making 6+ figures. Most of the rangers I met are great people. Incredibly sad if they lose their job and home.

I think the BSA made a huge tactical mistake taking a loan out on Philmont. The TCC is using that as evidence that it isn't restricted (as its being used as collateral). The judge will see BSA did this right before bankruptcy ... so it will appear they only did this to try and protect the asset. We talked about this at the time, but I bet that comes back to bite. The argument in this forum that once BSA opened that door, they gave up the best defense of donor restrictions.

BSA Statement ... didn't see it here yet, but there have been a lot of posts. https://scoutingwire.org/an-important-milestone-in-the-bsas-chapter-11-case/

Ummm... I'm guessing Mosby will not be on their Christmas Card list. Wow... Century & Harford coming in hot! Sooo ... over/under on completing bankruptcy by end of August?

The WSJ brings up some good points and I question some, not all, of the lawyers involved on the claimants side. My question is what should the judge do about this? National BSA is paying a ton in legal fees during this bankruptcy. Should the judge require an audit/review of all claims that could take months possibly years? What is required to vet the claims? All that time would simply delay the inevitable for BSA. It is likely more important to those who submitted claims, insurance companies and future lawsuits. Hopefully she can keep the case moving in parallel while claims are rev

100% correct and this is going to be painful. I want my son to have the experience of going to Philmont that I never got. I would love for him to go to Summit for a National Jambo. More that that, I want him to be able to go to the annual summer camp at a BSA site, to Klondike (which is held at a BSA camp) and my daughter to have a crossover at a BSA camp. I believe the only way to get any outcome that preserves any part of BSA is to be 100% transparent and open book. Get a full accounting of usage of every council property. Full accounting of every councils financials. If there are

It depends on how much time you have AND if you think spending that time will result in a better outcome for the BSA. What do I believe? I expect there are likely thousands of claims where BSA failed to protect children and should be financially responsible. Let's assume 5,000 total. Just a guess, who knows. So, 5,000 total ... what should we pay for each instance of child abuse we let happen that we could have stopped. $2M each? That is $10B. How long will it take to get to 5,000? 2 - 3 years? Just to end up back at something we cannot afford? To me, we should to a real

An organization's lack of oversight led to the sexual abuse of 85,000 youth and they are offering ~10% of their net worth to never have to think about that again. It would be one of the lowest settlements I have ever seen in a sex abuse case. Why not $0 and a I'm sorry card? That should be enough, correct? I would measure it in relation to their net worth (including all assets). To me, 75%+ would be close (around $4B) to the correct payment if you really believe the organization ended up with 85,000+ victims. If you don't like that, then don't say you believe everyone. Fight every c

Camps are assets that are worth billions. Assets are more than cash on hand. Unless they have clear deed protections, they can be sold. Given that local councils continue to sell camps to gain $$ for operations, its clear many don't have deed protections. Councils, unfortunately, have shown that properties can be used to generate cash for operations, likely undercutting that property must be used for scouting only. My council has lake property. Lake property in my area sells for $10,000 per linear foot. Over 100 feet, that skyrockets to $20,000 per linear foot. They own over 2,000

I disagree. Jeff Anderson has already shown he is willing to battle an Archdiocese for 4 years over $55M. LCs have billions. It will take a large settlement offer (or National BSA liquidation) to avoid 3-4 more years of litigation.

I tend to agree. I expect BSA should be ready for this bankruptcy to last until 2023 or even 2024. They will need to clearly communicate: - HA bases ... if units register and provide funds to go to HA bases, what happens to their money if the HA base is sold off. Could this money ever be pulled into the bankruptcy settlement. - Councils ... if camps are lost, will fees paid for summer camps be refunded. - FOS donations ... will any of those donations go to the bankruptcy settlement... Outside of those issues/concerns, the bankruptcy really doesn't impact my units day to

Because BSA is paying a ton of legal fees each day/week/month this goes on. Articles early on, when there were 5,000 claims, indicated BSA should be expected to fund a settlement that would equate to most of their value. So, it really doesn't make a difference if it is 5,000 or 50,000 (at least in terms of the financial payout from the BSA). So, if this is delayed for 6 months to vet the list, and we drop to 25,000 claims ... BSA may just end up having to liquidate as they run out of cash to fund continuing operations.

A variety of articles (outside that rough USA Today piece). In general, I have not found a single victim or victim lawyer nor insurance representative that like the plan proposed by BSA. Probably not a surprise, but there seems to be aggressive anger in the responses. I know this is a negotiation, but National BSA basically put up their minimum, put the bulk on LCs (which they haven't committed to) and punted on suing insurance companies (the Catholic Church in the past actually helped sue the insurance companies to get payouts). This is going as well as a fart in church. https:/

WSJ Opinion Piece. They are basically saying that mass-tort is out of control and now big business. It requires reforms, otherwise, businesses and organizations will always be at risk of elimination. They are pushing that the victim list is vetted prior to proceeding. https://www.wsj.com/articles/looting-the-boy-scouts-11614728612 While I agree with much of the piece, BSA would be in serious trouble with 5,000 cases let alone 85,000 cases. The vetting should be done prior to payouts, but it shouldn't delay the bankruptcy progress. Delaying the process to vet could actually lead

Sounds like my Troop (southwest Chicago suburb) and I 100% agree. Actually my Troop as a youth never went to a BSA HA base as they were too expensive. We did our own HA at a much lower cost on our own. There are outfitters at many locations that charge substantially less than the BSA and give similar if not better experiences. For example, in BWCA we were able to do HA at1/3 of the BSA cost and we only had to have 2 scouts per canoe (vs 3 at Northern Tier). Even now when I am located in a wealthier area, our Troop considers the BSA HA bases as our "expensive" high adventure trips. We