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Eagle1993

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Posts posted by Eagle1993

  1. Posted

    3 hours ago, an_old_DC said:

    Well it hasn't happened yet.

    I was at a Council event last night and said something about "Boy Scouts" and somebody snottily said "You mean Scouts BSA." So I replied "No, I mean Boy Scouts. On February 1, this will be Scouts BSA, but right now this is still Boy Scouts."

    They weren't happy about it but admitted it is premature to call the program Scouts BSA.

    Usually it is about cub scouts crossing over this spring... so in that case the parents are right (correcting me when I say Boy Scouts).  That said, I have also had the snarky response from a few like you mention. 

  2. Posted

    I was wondering where they would define what to call members of Scouts BSA... thanks for the link.  I’ve only remembered seeing  references to the program name.   I expect if 5-10 years, perhaps 50 based upon our UK friends’ experience, scouts will clearly mean Scouts BSA and Girl Scouts will be GSUSA.      That is unless GSUSA changes to Girl Guides.  So, if a girl is in Scouts BSA she would say... I’m a scout.  If she is in Girl Scouts she would state I’m a Girl Scout.  Boys will probably either call themselves scouts or Boy Scouts.... either should work.  

    Just had a thought.... I see a new take on Romeo and Juliette (see what I did there). Romeo is an Eagle Scout and Juliette is a Gold Scout.... you know the rest...”what’s in a name.”

    I’m surprised how quickly my area is already switching over to saying Scouts BSA.   I hear it from parents (those with kids in BSA) who correct me when I say Boy Scouts.  

  3. Posted

    27 minutes ago, dkurtenbach said:

    OMG, I would hope not - but thanks for checking.  😌  Girl Scouts ARE real Scouts.  Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, Venturers, Sea Scouts, and STEM Scouts ARE real Scouts.  BSA wanting us to say, "We are Scouts, they are Girl Scouts" just sounds . . . problematic. 

    They want us to say “Scouts BSA”.  Where do you see BSA staying “We are Scouts....”? 

  5. Posted

    More info just announced...  Not sure how you get added yet.

    In anticipation of the Scouts BSA launch on February 1, 2019, families are already looking for units forming in their area. To help youth join scouts, the BSA has added new functionality that allows councils to display “Coming Soon” units in BeAScout.org.

     

     

    • Upvote 1

  6. Posted · Edited by Eagle1993
    Added note

    2 hours ago, WAKWIB said:

    Since all this really isn't supposed to go "live" before Feb. 2019, your Council may be hesitant in giving concrete answers to anything.  In theory, the chartering of girls troops is two months away.  On Feb. 1st,  I suspect your Council and all the rest will be fired up and ready to process applications.
     

    Actual this partially true. Chartering of new Girl Troops is underway.  If girls are to join Feb 1 you need to have a lot of work complete by then.  See attached for an example of a plan.  Note the contact names will be different for your council. I’m sharing this from a private FB account that is supported semi-officially by Nationals.  I recommend searching Facebook for “BSA. Family Packs/Girl Troops” and request to join.  There is a lot of info there.  

    Note:  This isn’t official and just one example from a leader. 

    Scout BSA New Troop Kit.pdf

    • Thanks 1
    • Upvote 1

  10. Posted · Edited by Eagle1993
    Typo

    I looked back at some of the Pepsi vs Coke lawsuits.  Coke responded once that “... (it) seems as if Pepsi would prefer to fight in the courts rather than the marketplace.”  While I don’t see this as a fight, GSUSA seems to, and instead of focusing inward to see why girls are not joining (or leaving) they are fighting in the media and court.  That may work short term but long term parents and kids will find and choose the best fit for them (or none)... regardless of program names.

    BSA is offering refunds to any girls who joined Cub Scouts thinking it was Girl Scouts.  Surbaugh also notes that Scouts BSA was intentionally chosen vs Scouts.

          

    • Like 1

  12. Posted

    1 hour ago, FireStone said:

    What will be interesting to me is related to my earlier comment about whether or not the BSA would be held liable for what local units were doing, erroneously putting out flyers that read "girl scouts" or "girl scout troops".

    According to the video, BSA would be liable.  For example, Pack xyz sent our flyer that includes term “girls scout”.  Is sounds like GSUSA would have to prove damages from that specific flyer and BSA would be liable.  For a single unit flyer, What are the damages ... 1-3 lost members?  $60?  I think that is the point the lawyers were making as to why cease and desist letters make sense.

    At least that is how I interpreted their video.  

  13. Posted

    22 minutes ago, qwazse said:

    Mamma brought me up to defer to the ladies. 

    I also think the opinion of the ladies who join BSA would also be included in the equation, perhaps girl members of Venturing would have been a great group to ask.

    I don’t believe GSUSA should have the only and final input.  They have made it clear they want nothing to do with BSA going forward.  I’m sure their answer would be Backstabbing Scouts of America.  I hope that is repaired long term but I don’t see a name conversation happening short term as it would appear that they are approving of this change.  

  14. Posted

    The 1 hour video above, by a Trademark attorney and a patent attorney seems to make clear the only thing GSUSA can enforce is the use of the term “Girl Scouts”  or very similar “girl scout” or “girl ... scout”.     They seem to indicate that scout is a generic term and no organization has the right to reserve a market for that term.  There is no way to protect a market (for example, Apple cannot use Trademark laws to prevent other PC sellers to sell “computers” to girls). Just as GSUSA cannot use Trademark law to prevent BSA from selling scouting services to girls.  They can be called scouts, just not “Girl Scouts”.

    In terms of the examples given, those that contain the word Girl Scout/s will be an issue and there could be some damages; however, they would have to prove the specific damages in those cases.  In addition, the example of Juliette quote is not actionable (not a trademark and past Copyright age) and the Girl Scout mission (not trademark could be copyright) is minimally actionable.   

    They saw no way for Girl Scouts to block Scouts BSA or Scout Life Trademarks.  In addition they raved about  BSA actions to date and claimed they are great in terms of legal impact.  The damages should be minimal (they mentioned could be as low as $1).  

    The video is long but informative.  At one point they even looked at who (name of lawyer) wrote the complaint as they were surprised at some inconsistencies.  One of the lawyers mentioned he was an Eagle Scout and loves the BSA so is biased.   Will be interesting to have other lawyers input.

     

  15. Posted

    @NJCubScouter

    Would be interested in your take.

    It seems like they believe BSA will win the big battle (the name Scouts BSA) but GSUSA may see some wins in damages (but they would have to prove them and these two expect they will be minimal).  They called the BSA response “brilliant”, taking the high road and clarifying the brand do and don’ts.  

    After listening to them I question several of GSUSA’s examples as they are not strong indicators of Trademark infringement (for example the quote from Juliette is no longer copyrighted due to age of the quote).  

    Overall interesting take that seems to think that BSA has a strong case.  That would make sense as I expect BSA lawyers were part of the name selection.  

  16. Posted

    41 minutes ago, walk in the woods said:

    Those of you wondering how people can confuse the two organizations are missing the point.  Most of the parents I deal with have never been involved in scouting in any way, shape, or fashion.  Even if you use the terms BSA and GSUSA, they assume they are divisions of some greater single entity.  

    I’ve never used the terms BSA or GSUSA with new parents.  I say Cub Scouts and Girl Scouts.  If parent is interested in scouting for little Sally I say, yep, she can join our Cub Scout Pack.  I also say we have a great Girl Scout program at our school and if she is interested I can give you their contact info.  Never had confusion after that.... and I will continue to help GSUSA regardless of some of their tactics.

  18. Posted

    Finished reading that GSUSA guideline.  I have no problem showing the uniform, emphasizing their unique brand, ensuring GSUSA money is spent on GSUSA events.  Recruiting separate... sure.  Many valid points.   

    Telling a Troop of Girl Scouts that they can no longer participate in Scouting for Food because it is a BSA event crosses a line.  It crosses the line of an organization more self interested in $ than doing service. I haven’t seen that and GSUSA in my area still does some joint BSA activities when it involves community service... I hope that remains.

  19. Posted · Edited by Eagle1993

    Found this to be interesting 

    “Girl Scouts of the USA prohibits events co-sponsored or co- branded with the Boy Scouts.”

    “Do not participate in, allow, or promote any co-sponsored or co-branded events or programs that use either Girl Scouts’ name, logo, colors, or likenesses together with Boy Scouts.
    This includes long-standing events like Scouting for Food and Pine Car Derbies.”

    Yep... screw the hungry if Boy Scouts are involved.  What a load of crap.   My sympathy for GSUSA went down a few notches...

  21. Posted

    4 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

     

    This may be the motivation for the GSUSA to push a more outdoor program. Both programs are getting away from the original design of building future ethical and moral leaders. It may turn into a race to attract the best outdoor after school program. Ironically, family scouting might have an advantage.

    Barry

    most of the girls in my daughter’s school that are in GSUSA have no desire to do the outdoor program.  They sign up for the STEM, arts and crafts aspect. Sure ... glamping is of some interest but definitely not HA.  When signing up for summer camp the GSUSA camp about fashion was sold out and had a waiting list... that wasn’t the case for the more outdoor focused camps.  I’m sure they will increase their outdoor offerings to help stem losses to BSA but from what I see on the ground at our school the actual Troops and girls will focus on STEM and arts/crafts and going to museums.   Not sure about other schools.  

  22. Posted

    @Treflienne

    You are probably right. My only thought is that BSA will not drop the use of Scouts and in the end, even if they are forced to change to BSA Scouts instead of Scouts BSA the confusion will remain.

     I did notice that my daughter (who is in both) has been seeing a lot of language from GSUSA about the power of G.I.R.L.s.  Emphasize on the girl vs scout.   Perhaps they are looking for a payout while keeping the name unchanged.

  23. Posted

    9 hours ago, Treflienne said:

     

    And we actually have a really simple situation with scouting in this country.  Compare it with France.  According to wikipedia ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scouting_and_Guiding_in_France )

     

    I wouldn’t be shocked if BSA/GSUSA settle and BSA helps fund a name change of GSUSA to Girl Guides USA.  Regardless of the name BSA chooses there could be confusion and GSUSA will want to differentiate.  Could be a big marketing refresh of their program and I don’t see BSA losing the term scouts.  Who knows, will be interesting to watch.  

  24. Posted · Edited by Eagle1993
    Added that this came from FB post

    From FB Post

    The following is an official statement from the BSA's National Council. Please be aware that any comments to the media should be made by the National or local Councils only. If you receive any media inquiries, please route them to PR@scouting.org. 

    “We just became aware of the lawsuit filed in the Southern District Court of New York, and we are reviewing it carefully.

    “Our decision to expand our program offerings for girls came after years of requests from families who wanted the option of the BSA’s character - and leadership-development programs for their children – boys and girls. We believe that we owe it to our current and future members to offer families the options they want.”

    “We applaud every organization that builds character and leadership in children, including the Girl Scouts of the USA, and believe that there is an opportunity for both organizations to serve girls and boys in our communities.”

    On background:

    • The Boy Scouts of America has served girls in our programs since 1971 through Sea Scouts,
    Venturing and Exploring; in fact, there are currently over 170,000 girls registered in Boy Scout of
    America programs.

    • In the time since we’ve welcomed both boys and girls in Cub Scouts, over 62,000 girls have registered underscoring families’ interest in the programs offered by the Boy Scouts of America.

    • We take the brand and trademark of all organizations seriously and have worked proactively to differentiate our unique program offerings. Any time we have been made aware of an instance of potential confusion around our programs, we immediately took steps to correct and clarify."

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