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Eagle1993

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Posts posted by Eagle1993

  1. 25 minutes ago, DannyG said:

    It doesn't mean you can actually tie a taut-line hitch; it means your tried and gave it your best shot. In order to fulfill the requirement for Scout rank, you have to show you have the ability to tie the knot.

    AOL, Scout & Tenderfoot all have the same knot requirements.   To me, it makes more sense to have a new scout who earned AOL work immediately on the Tenderfoot version than simply repeating it for Scout rank and then again for Tenderfoot.

    They added Scout rank (requirements) in 2016.  I think the rank makes sense for someone brand new to scouting.  Awarding an AOL scout with Scout rank is an indication they likely already know the very basics of being a scout.  Similar to the Military having Eagle scouts start at E-3.

    • Downvote 1
  2. 1 minute ago, KublaiKen said:

    While AOL and Scout appear identical, there is actually a universe between them. They may be doing the exact same things, but the first time it was signed off by a grown-up and the second time by another Scout. I don't think that step should be diminished or lost, because it probably really helps the new Scout understand the seismic shift. And while I know the SMC is by no means contingent upon advancement, I do like that one is required right out of the gate. Not necessary, but then maybe it is for some.

    I wouldn't mind requiring SMC at the transition, but don't make them jump through the same hoops.  There is not a single scout requirement that expands beyond what they did as AOL (or could have done).   Have them start immediately focusing on Tenderfoot vs redoing AOL. They can see the benefits of having another scout sign off on requirements while working on Tenderfoot.  I personally see Scout as a momentum killer and a relatively boring introduction into Scouts BSA for someone who earned AOL.

  3. 2 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

    My Comments in RED

    I hope only up to AOL. IHMO trying to cram 8 adventures before Crossover could be a challenge and lead to pencilwhipping.

     

    I believe that was how it was prior to some time in the 1970s. I know my brothers had Bobcat pins

     

    DANGER WILL ROBINSON DANGER WILL ROBINSON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    This will set us back 30+ years.  Prior to 1989, Webelos and AOL was 9-12 months total. Studies showed that 9-12 months was not enough time to transition, hence the reason Webelos became am 18-24 month program, to better transition to Scouts.

    THIS WILL REALLY SCREW UP THE TRANSITION PROCESS!

    If national really wants to fix the problem,  make Scouting Adventure required for Webelos, and actually force Webelos Dens to begin the transition process.

    But hey, what do I know. I just been around 40 years, saw when this change occurred, and how much better new Scouts were overall. Yeah, we did have some challenges. But not like today.  And Live, in person training needs to happen to emphasize the importance of the transition.

     

    That is how it was in the mid 1980s. I remember just after Crossing Over, going to my first meeting and getting my Scout signed off and starting my tenure for Tenderfoot.

     

    It will be interesting to see what this change really means.  I like your idea ... if 4th graders get a taste of Scouts BSA by having to earn scouting adventure and then AOL is really heavily focused on transitioning into Scouts BSA.  If Webelos is just 1 more year of pure Cub Scouts and AOL is the 1st time anyone starts really preparing for transition to Scouts BSA ... the truth is that AOL transfer in Feb - May ... so that would mean only 6-8 months.

    Now, to be fair, I see many packs not spend much time on transition to Scouts BSA until late in 5th grade.  So, on the ground, pushing AOL scouts earlier (in September) may actually give them more time to transition vs what many packs/Troops see today.

  4. So ... I'm not aware of all of the changes.  Some that may be coming ...

    • Every rank will switch to 6 required adventures and 2 electives.  It is not clear if this is the correct #s; however, what was made clear is every rank will have the identical # of required & elective adventures.
    • Bobcat is no longer a rank, it will be an adventure that must be earned for every rank
    • Webelos & AOL will be completely separate.  Webelos will go to 1 year.  AOL will be full focused on bridging to scouts BSA and much more focus will be on linking AOL scouts to a Scouts BSA Troop.
    • If a scout earns AOL, when they cross over to Scouts BSA, they automatically earn Scout rank.

    I understand there are/could be other changes coming, but I have not heard of any changes to how the Pack functions or Lions/Tigers

    The 1st change listed in meh to me.  I don't see much of an impact. 

    The 2nd change ... not a bad idea to me.  Scouts should go through the bobcat requirements frequently.  Perhaps the uniform changes where Lions, Tigers, Wolves and Bears each have their own square.

    The 3rd change ... if implemented well could be a win.  It should be operating this way already, but I expect it could help some Packs/Dens realize the importance of the this transition vs having it be 1 adventure.

    The 4th change ... I'm a big fan of this one.  Earn AOL you should have done everything required for Scout Rank anyway and it gets them moving in Scouts BSA rank advancement.

    Thoughts on these possible changes (still just a rumor).  Personally ... I don't think it is enough; however, I would like to learn more about the AOL change which could have a fairly significant impact.

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  5. BSA financials released for end of Dec.  Summary below of BSA's net unrestricted liquidity (combination of cash on hand + unrestricted investments).  Dec/January is typically the peak and then liquidity drop as insurance premium is paid and income drops.  Bankruptcy costs have been dropping but I expect that to pick up ... plus they will need to make some payments to the trust at some point.  We will probably see 30 - 40M drop in their liquidity by August .. so down to $50-60M.  Prior to bankruptcy they were at $240M. 

    image.thumb.png.de61d969632d76880f9c97b61f770f77.png

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  6. The USDOJ brings the people's elbow (The Rock reference) to the Roman Catholic Church Ad Hoc, Coalition and Pfau request for payment.  Easy read. Basically tells them they should pound sand.

    I have a hard time seeing the judge disagree with the DOJ.  I expect a hard rebuke... Perhaps that is hope talking. 

     

    https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/95089527-7d85-4e92-b5ac-57f1c41f9158_10944.pdf

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  7. I have heard recently that there are changes coming to the Cub Scout program.  I'll hold back the specifics for now, but I am curious as to what changes you would like to see.  It sounds like changes are in the advanced planning stage and are pending the closure of bankruptcy (hopefully March).  If you were running Cub Scouts, what would you do?

     

  8. 32 minutes ago, scoutldr said:

    Separation of church and state.

    It seems odd they only allow this for a religious purpose.  It seems like that could be targeted by lawsuits ... like the state is establishing a religion by pushing non-religious institutions with taxes they don't apply to religious ones.  Plus, it isn't just religious institutions ... it is that + museums.  In my state, yes, churches don't pay but most other non profit organizations don't have to pay property tax.  They don't just separate out museums + churches.

    The fix is even more odd.  Why not other youth organizations?  Why not other non-profit organizations?

    I'm glad I don't run a non-profit in Virginia.  Having to pay property tax when you run a homeless shelter or food pantry seems wrong.

    • Upvote 3
  9. 1 hour ago, yknot said:

    I wouldn't draw too tight a relationship between some of those trends because over the past 25 years there have been a lot of other things at play including a more universal disenchantment with scouting. A portion of my family is in Scouts Canada, in some cases in both Scouts Canada and BSA, and when talking to them, the view is more nuanced. Scouts Canada has been impacted by the Francophone and anti Commonwealth movement in some provinces that eschews all things British. There is an indigenous movement, much higher profile than here, that eschews all things Colonial. And Canadians in general have been distancing themselves in public life from anything connected to religious institutions. It's been kind of a triple whammy for scouting, which in Canada is seen to be connected to all three. 

    I think this is why it is nearly impossible to predict where BSA will be in 10 years. Either Scouts UK or Scouts Canada could be our future.

    Scouts Canada - added girls in 1993 ... down to 21,788 total youth members.  So, 0.4% of youth in Canada are registered members of Scouts Canada.  The #1 search item I saw about Scouts Canada was "Does Scouts Canada still exist".

    UK Scout Association - added girls in 1991 ... 412,986 total youth members with 90,000 on a waiting list.  So, 4.8% of youth in UK are registered members of UK Scout Association ... or 12 times the per capita youth that are in Scouts Canada

    So ... in 10 years, will adding girls result in UK Scout Association or Scouts Canada.  Unless we have a leadership change, I expect Scouts Canada.  However, with the right leaders in place ... we could be UK Scout Association.  What would BSA look like:

    • Scouts Canada path - Most camps sold off, 2nd bankruptcy, girls 25% of membership and BSA becomes a relic of history
    • UK Scout Association path - Major increase in membership (perhaps 2.5 to 3 million members), 40% of membership is girls and girls out of BSA become key leaders in society, camps are full and maintained well, BSA seen as a great way to instill values for all youth.

    I'm sure there were great unit leaders in both organizations 15-20 years ago.  Both drove scouting values.  Understanding and studying the paths they took will be important to prevent a repeat of Scouts Canada.  Perhaps as @yknot mentioned, some of the issues could be outside the organization control.  However, the organization is still responsible for meeting the needs and wants of parents/youth ... those who do not will die off.

    • Upvote 1
  10. 21 minutes ago, Navybone said:

    I would think that the parents could argue that the Council, who owns the camp, did not provide sufficient oversight and control of their range if they allowed this to occur.  At a minimum, call the council's overall management and the approval for use process into intense scrutiny.  

     

    The council defense is probably flimsy.  I would think they would settle.

    • Upvote 1
  11. 54 minutes ago, malraux said:

    I'm of mixed opinion on the target limitation. I'm not sure how much of that is safety related vs PR related, as there can be a lot of problematic choices of say zombified versions of political figures or controversial figures. And certainly there's every incentive to drag in the deeper pockets of the local council vs the troop leaders. But if there's a history of violations of the shooting sports rules at the camp, then they'll deserve every financial penalty they get. That said, it does sound like this troop went rogue on what they brought to the firing line.

    BSA has clear rules that the unit violated.  I'm not sure what else the BSA could have done to prevent this.  

    Now, the council who owns the camp.  If any council employee was aware of this situation or gave approval, then the council should be held liable.  If it simply happened at their camp, without their approval nor seen by any employee ... then I struggle to see how they are liable.  If all the council did was having unapproved targets, I struggle to see how that would be blamed for this incident.

    Unit leaders & CO ... could be held liable.  How was the barrel not pointed down range?   No safety official overseeing the range is disturbing.  Ammo on tables happens all the time and is fine.  Same with guns (though these clearly violate BSA policy).  

  12. Lawsuit filed against the council & BSA.  

    Suit against Boy Scouts: ‘Pattern of failures’ led to fatal shooting of 11-year-old at Hawaii campsite (hawaiinewsnow.com)

     one of the Scout parents brought about a dozen firearms, including an AK-47 semi-automatic assault rifle, an AR-15, an M-4 carbine, four shotguns, and four Glock pistols.

     

    As children were shooting high-powered rifles, the lawsuit says, no safety official was overseeing the range or tables filled with guns and ammo. Carvalho was sitting in a chair behind the firing line, when another boy picked up the AK-47 and set it back down, an act that discharged a round that hit Carvalho in the back of his head.

    There was no magazine in the rifle, but a round had been left in the chamber. something the family believes could have been prevented had safety protocols been in place.

  13. I'll start by saying I hope I am wrong ...

    GSUSA, seeing BSA as a threat, continues their focus on girl only scouting in successful fundraising campaigns.  Those funds help them maintain/increase staff, increase offerings and help with advertising, keeping them the organization of choice for most girls.  Parents looking at organizations see GSUSA with more camp offerings, more STEM opportunities and in general an organization that doesn't look in financial ruin.

    BSA leadership continue to struggle to communicate their vision & purpose.  Prior supporters who were conservative do not come back as they consider BSA too woke.  Progressive/liberals who left during Dale do not come on board given religious requirements & fight with GSUSA. 

    BSA exits bankruptcy in financial peril.  Debt payments to JP Morgan outpace their ability to pay due to lack of significant fundraising and membership stagnation.

    BSA quickly merges councils, cuts programs/offerings and raises fees at HA bases and registration to help offset their debt load.  They stop offerings that are not profitable and nearly every activity is looked at as a P&L line item.  (Offer this merit badge as we can make $$$, kill camping at this camporee as food costs are too high).  This causes further disruption in the ranks and prevents a response to GSUSA's aggressive recruiting of girls.

    BSA enters bankruptcy in 2028 and loses several HA bases, sold to Elon Musk who uses them as Space X launch locations.  

    Girls represent 25% of their membership by 2030, but membership is still at only 1M members.  Colleges see Eagle Scout as less and less of a benefit and therefore, parents see less benefit driving kids to stay in or join BSA with a goal of obtaining Eagle.  This further erodes membership numbers.

    Trails Life announce record recruiting ... but yet still at 30,000 members.

    GSUSA buys the Eagle Scout trademark.

    .... it could definitely go @Cburkhardtpath & I hope it does.  I just think National Leadership is going to have to improve how they lead the organization as we are still in financial peril.  Navigating the financial situation while addressing the needs/wants of millennial/gen z parents & gen alpha youth is going to be difficult.  I'm not convinced they have it in them.

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    • Upvote 1
  14. 2 hours ago, HashTagScouts said:

    Our Council has struggled with girl troops. About five have folded this year for lack of numbers to recharter. Many of our family packs only have 1-3 girls in each level, so the pipeline to those units in the same CO are slim. At the end of the day, the "rush" in the beginning was to create units as sister units to existing boy troops, and it has materialized into a mediocre reality. We have suffered in the same way. The challenge I've had is trying to convince our adults that we need to look to neighboring family packs that don't share a CO with a troop, and recruit from there. If the 1-3 girls in those packs are going to go on from AoL, where are they going to go? Could they scramble and find two other girls to start a troop? Sure, but the evidence is in that nearly every unit in the Council that started that way just a few short years ago is now either defunct or doomed. The problem is a) getting anyone other than me to actually go and take on that extra effort, but also b) our boys troop is not exactly fairing exceedingly better, and everyone worries that if we invite Council into our business to help they are going to recommend merging the boys troop with another unit. In my opinion, old thinking that we needed at least one troop in every town may no longer be the best philosophy in a number of parts of the country. Many of the youth sports leagues here are now no longer singular-town specific, which only boosts my convictions it isn't just BSA that struggles. And many of those sports leagues are competing for sponsors, just like Scout units are. The local soccer league charges $85/season for the little tikes in instructional league, and they have about ten sponsor logos on the back of their shirts. What GSUSA has done, and the BSA has no answer to, is licensing their brand- Girl Scout cookie flavored ice cream, coffee drinks, etc.

     

    I think you make a good point and I agree, most councils struggle with their current responsibilities.  

    I started the 1st girls den in my council and my daughter was the 1st registered girl in Cub Scouts in my council.  It started with ~10 girls or so across several different grades.  The biggest group came from a GSUSA troop that folded.  Over time, GSUSA did a better job in my school with retaining Troops and girls decided to stay in GSUSA.  My daughter ended up dropping out of Cub Scouts in 4th grade when there were no remaining girls in the Pack.  She is happy hanging out with the boys, but also wants some girls present.  We attempted recruiting, but every girl interested in scouts went to GSUSA (my daughter did as well).

    Similar story with our girl's troop.  We started strong with some very active girls.  However, it never really rose above 7 girls.  They were adament, they wanted to remain linked to the boy's troop ... but over time, more and more dropped out.  Most dropped out as they are very active with sports, rock climbing, dance, etc. and just didn't have time for scouts.  Some had similar comments to boys who leave ... scouts is becoming boring (they don't want any meetings, just go out hiking, camping & canoeing).  Perhaps if we had a 20+ girl Troop and the girls all had friends they would have stayed.  We are now down to 3 girls (including my daughter).  If we don't get more, the Troop will fold.

    I've talked through my council and many girl units have similar stories.  Initial surge, then this decline.  I am interested in a council by council breakdown of girls in scouts as the story may not be consistent nationwide.

    Personally, I would welcome the council coming into my town and setting up a dedicated girl Troop.  Grab the 3 girls from the 3-4 different girl troops in the area to form a 10-12 member troop & recruit to grow that.  I simply do not have time until I leave my current Troop ... which I won't do until my son ages out.

    But ... I agree, that is a lot to but on councils, so I fear we will simply watch this limp forward.  GSUSA's dominance of recruiting K-5th grade girls will limit girls in packs and that is the main feed for girls in Scouts BSA.  If you don't change that somehow, I'm not sure this will succeed.

  15. On 1/17/2023 at 11:45 AM, Cburkhardt said:

    Eagle1993:  My views on Scouts BSA Troops for Girls regard program quality and feasibility at the unit level.  What specifically are the "drastic changes" you seek?  I'm guessing you are focused on the above-unit levels. 

    Correct, most of the issues are above-unit levels.  At the unit level, the program works well for girls.  While GSUSA has a great K-5th grade program, it drops off significantly after which is where Scouts BSA shines.

    What would I change going forward?  Just a few ideas ....

    1) Councils need to be much more active building up Girl Troops.  Perhaps even finding district/council level volunteers to help create the Troops.  I have heard of several stories where girls in Cub Scouts had no Troop to transition into. 

    2) Support new Troops to help build up equipment.  One girl Troop I met at summer camp was in sad shape in terms of equipment.  It is expensive and takes years to build up patrol boxes, stoves, troop tents, dining flies, Klondike sleds, white gas stoves, etc., etc.  I expect Councils could likely find equipment from Troops in decline that could be used by these new Troops.  We need strong girl Troops in all districts and councils need to be more active helping to ramp this up.

    3) National & local advertising campaign ... most girls have no clue this is an option 

    4) Tools and direct support from councils to recruit 11-17 year olds into Girls Troops ... most of our recruiting experience is at the Cub Scout level ... GSUSA dominates there

    5) National working on corp. partnerships (GSUSA destroys BSA in this area).  

    Many of these could apply to boy troops as well.

    My #1 issue is Roger Mosby.  Seems like a nice guy, but not a great leader of an organization. 

     

  16. What is BSA's goal?  I think the only way you can say anything is a success is to set a goal and measure against that value.

    UK scouts has 443,777 6-18 year olds in scouts and a goal of 547,000 by 2025. They have detailed breakdowns of this goal.   What is our goal and a council by council look at progress to that goal?

    UK scouting has about 4% of youth registered (excluding waiting list of 90,000 youth).. BSA is about 1.5%. UK is at 87% of their 2019 numbers... BSA is at 50%.  I struggle to see much to cheer about in terms of BSA youth participation.

    In terms of girls and  the summer camps I have attended, the number of girls seemed to jump quickly in 2019 and haven't  grown that much since.  I typically only see 1-2 patrols of girls out of 25-30 at camporees.

    What should be done varies by council and unit.  I believe drastic changes are required  and most if not all of those apply to both girls and boys.  It all starts with our national leadership.  

    • Upvote 1
  17. For those closer to the case, any details regarding the hearing Feb 21?  Looks like the Coalition is asking for $21M and Pfau/Zalkin is looking for $3.5M.  Is this coming directly from BSA (who has around $80M of cash) or out of the settlement?  Will coalition law firms reduce their 33 - 40% commission or are they simply double dipping?

  18. 7 hours ago, Cburkhardt said:

    The regularly-involved unit leader perspective is that OA is “twisting in the wind” with regard to its long term role and continuing relevance.  This is solely because the controversial aspects of the program have not yet been processed. 

    This is not true.  OA is struggling for many other reasons.  One is council mergers.  OA meetings prior to our council merger were a 30 min round trip away.  Now they are 1 hr and 45 mins.  OA ordeal used to occur at our council summer camp.  Our council no longer has a summer camp.  Service was at a local camp (35 mins away).  That camp has been sold and service is now not linked to camps.  

    Yes, AIA is one aspect that should be discussed, but changing that won't mean OA has solved it's long term role or relevence.  In fact, removing AIA without lodge involvement could kill OA.

    • Upvote 1
  19. 6 hours ago, HashTagScouts said:

    18 is just odd

    One issue for some Troops, including ours.  OA election in March and our council doesn't have a summer camp.  So, for Ordeal you have two opportunities.  One a few weeks after selecting and one in the fall.  If you have a fall sport (many youth) you really only have a few weeks notice and may have a conflict.  Some Troops don't let scouts know until summer camp, so for those, they really have only one opportunity for Ordeal.

    This will give scouts a bit more time to attend Ordeal the next spring. Will it make a big difference, who knows.

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