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Posts posted by Eagle1993

  1. @Cburkhardt

    Does Summit offer a patrol cooking summer camp option?  Our Troop has a history of patrol cooking summer camps and one year went to a summer camp that was dining hall based.  The difference was huge and the scouts and scouters decided they never wanted to do a dining hall camp again.  We know long term most camps are headed to dining hall, but if summit offered a patrol cooking option, it could be a great option.

    • Upvote 1

  2. 30 minutes ago, 69RoadRunner said:

    If that requirement isn't removed by July 1, Philmont will cancel treks.  Really, that requirement needs to end much sooner than that for rangers and staff flying in to be there in time to be trained.

    At this point, it looks like it is in place until May 31.



    • New Mexicans must remain home except for outings essential for health, safety and welfare, especially elderly and vulnerable individuals. If you must leave home, gatherings of more than five people remain prohibited and 6 feet of physical distance from others must be maintained.
    • Large retailers like big-box stores and grocery stores will continue operating at 20 percent capacity as determined by fire code.
    • Locations and services where high-intensity contact is unavoidable – such as gyms, salons and dine-in service at restaurants and bars – will remain temporarily closed. Limited in-person operations for those types of businesses could be included in the next modification of the public health order, as soon as early June, depending on New Mexico’s rate of COVID-19 transmission, testing capacity and other gating criteria.
    • Other high-intensity contact services that must remain closed include indoor malls, massage and tattoo parlors, theaters, casinos.
    • 14-day quarantine order remains in place for out-of-state airport arrivals.
    • Vacation rentals prohibited to out-of-state residents.
    • Visits to long-term care and other congregate care facilities remain restricted.

  3. 1 minute ago, TimB said:

    Our crew is 3:1 scout to scouter ratio. That’s better than the NM requests. We will be able to trek with each individual in own tent. Though BlueSky has us sharing hotel rooms and transportation. But we will be flying in, with a change of planes en route. I still don’t have a read on if that will make us acceptable to trek or not. And then if we will have restrictions upon returning. Selfishly I want to go for my boy - and admittedly a bit for me. But it seems we may not get a definite yes or no until we step onto the trail. It feels like the winds can shift that quickly. 

    But New Mexico is stating local youth only … so the governor would have to make an acceptation for Philmont.

    They also have a 14 day quarantine for out of state arrivals at the airport.  I would expect that would end by the May 31, but who knows.

    We have two crews going late July by train.  Our June date at summer camp was just cancelled, so waiting to see what happens here.  I hope it still happens for the scouts as any cancellation would mean some scouts will never have the opportunity again.

  4. Any update from Philmont given the New Mexico extension of stay at home order (until May 31)?  Is there any way Philmont can go on given the rules introduced here? 



    Summer Program Overview: E-learning or distance learning opportunities should be provided for all students when possible as an alternative to in person programs. In person summer programs and sports camps will be restricted to 5:1 child to adult ratios for children who live in the local geographic area only. Grab and Go meal sites for children will continue throughout the summer. 

  5. 8 minutes ago, sri_oa161 said:

    Blue Ridge Mountains Council just sent out word that they are cancelling all Summer Camp sessions at their two base camps and Claytor Lake.  However, they said they have made arrangements for any unit currently signed up for camp to instead go to The Summit for a week at the same cost as council camp.  Or the unit can move their fees to 2021 and go to regular camp in 2021, but at the cost for 2020. 

    Has anyone gone to Summit for summer camp?  Any thoughts on the experience?

  6. All of the below assumes state health department & our council allows us to camp.

    The discussion we are having as a Troop is what level of social distancing we are able and willing to enforce during a summer camp.  At this point, we are unwilling to enforce social distancing smaller than a patrol.  If there is a need to enforce social distancing smaller than patrols, then camp will not work.  

    Patrol level is difficult but may be achievable, but probably not at 100%.  We talked about clear visual indicators of who is in what patrol and ensuring scouts in different patrols stay 6+ feet apart at all times.  Tent buddies from same patrol and keep patrol tents/setups apart.  Even this will be difficult to fully enforce during a full week, but could be a way to limit reduce/limit possible contacts.

    Troop level is nearly guaranteed if you have your own summer camp.  If going to a council camp it will depend on the scouts & camp counselors.  Our camp is fully patrol cooking, so we think it is mostly achievable given the info we have been provided … but again, not 100%.

    In the end, we are discussing as scouters what we are willing to enforce.  We will discuss with the PLC to see what they view as achievable while still maintaining the summer camp experience.  We can then go to the parents to get their thoughts/concerns.  

    For those looking to keep social distancing at the individual level, camp will not be an option this year.  You will have to accept that at minimum your son/daughter will come into contact (<6 feet) with at least 6-9 other scouts.  I think after that level, it is really dependent on the Troop/camp and their practices/plan.

  7. Camp Freeland Leslie just sent an update

    - June 21 is now their start

    - Patrol cooking only, they had planned a dining hall type experience this year as an option, that is cancelled.

    - Camp wide pig roast cancelled

    - Camp wide flag/fire ceremony cancelled

    - Family night/visitor day cancelled

    - Cloth facemasks will be provided to all campers

    - Personal bottle of hand sanitizer to all campers

    - Large bottles of hand santitizer across camp

    - Symptom screening setup

    - Shared equipment cleaning will follow CDC protocols

    - Disinfecting procedures for common areas to be followed.

    - Refund policy improving … allowing cancellations closer to camp.


  8. Just now, HashTagScouts said:

    Considering that most individuals are not driving from their home location to the HA bases, and are often going to fly, risk increased.  Dade County is one of the highest hit areas in Florida- I wouldn't fly through Miami right now, and I don't expect it to be flat there come July 1.  

    I agree, but I'm also thinking about the leadership in the state.  New Mexico's Governor is very aggressive. She is setting up roadblock around Gallup https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gallup-new-mexico-lockdown-sunday-governor-lujan-grisham/.  I would not be surprised if she shuts down Philmont.

    Florida, on the other hand, well .. 

    SOCIAL DISTANCING: Not all beach goers following CDC's advice

  9. 11 hours ago, Sentinel947 said:

    Not only that, but most campgrounds are reopening under the requirement that the groups are less than 10 people, and that all campers are from the same family/household. 

    I expect it will be a phased approach for most states.  Groups of 10 or less would allow some patrol activities/camping.  Groups of ~50 would allow Troop. 

    I was much more bullish about summer camp one month ago.  However, that assumed we would be a in a lot better shape now.  One month ago, our state was predicted to see few new cases now and <<100 infections by June 1.  Deaths were declining in mid April, but late April that switched and now daily deaths exceed our previous peak (same for USA).  The latest models I see now show <<100 infections by August 1 … and that assumes we social distance all summer.  https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america

    I think as a Troop I'll push for a  mid August Troop lead summer camp if our current date falls through.  Mixing scouts within a community is much less risky than mixing scouts from different regions.  It won't be the full experience, but it may have to do this summer.  I hope we will be able to do this as being locked inside all summer will be tough.

  10. 57 minutes ago, Cburkhardt said:

    I do note the exception that the high adventure bases are apparently intending to open on July 1.  

    I know that is the current plan, but I would be shocked if it went through this summer.  While the curve has flattened (we are now linear growth), we haven't driving cases down.  I have a team in China  (not Wuhan) but when I discussed with them the USA's response their biggest shock is the travel we allow between locations.  That is a big way they limited the spread.  I think governors will realize this more and more and put a stop to locations that attract out of state visitors.  

    It kills me as I think there is a risk that some of these high adventure bases may be sold off in Bankruptcy.  I also know it provides cash flow for BSA and many would lose out on a once in a lifetime experience.  I just think there is no way New Mexico or Minnesota will allow this to proceed.  Florida … perhaps and I have no idea about West Virginia.

    • Upvote 1

  11. 2 minutes ago, yknot said:

    Someone still has to hand them out multiple times a day. And then someone has to put a name on them so they don't pick up someone else's bottle if they put it down. The bottom line is it's kids and there are a dozen things like this that are going to be a problem. It's one thing if you are trying to guard against run of the mill stomach bugs or colds at camp. It's another if you're trying to avoid spreading a potentially fatal virus during a pandemic. If scout camps were on top of this, we should be seeing more proactive communications but in my area at least there has been nothing other than the same boiler plate precautions that seem pretty tepid. 

    I think you are going to need to figure this out until there is a vaccine or decide not to go camping.  We are already talking as a Troop as to how to help reduce risk.  Given that a vaccine may not be available for years, Troops that begin planning will do much better than those that either ignore the risk OR decide to stay inside until 2022+

  12. 24 minutes ago, yknot said:

    Someone with clean hands is going to have to stand there and fill up the individual water bottles. You can't have a hundred hands touch that spigot and it would be a waste of hand sanitizer (that no one yet seems to have) to sanitize between each use. Plus, sanitizer is really not all that effective the way most people use it. You've got to glop it on and let it sit for a minute or two before touching anything.  

    Not with this..

    Kroger - Kroger® Purified Water Mini Bottles, 24 bottles / 8 fl oz

  13. 2 hours ago, 5thGenTexan said:

    How do you keep this transmission source clean between EACH person putting thier hands on it not to mention thier water that goes to the mouth?

    Igloo 5-Gallon Heavy-Duty Beverage Cooler

    Good point.  I'm guessing the traditional bug juice will not fly this summer.  Individual water bottles/drinks. 

  14. Per CDC: "...essential service providers, such as first responders, healthcare workers, transit workers, and other industries where a parent cannot stay home"

    So, basically, opening this up to kids of parents who cannot work at home.  

  15. Looking at my council, United Way is the top revenue source … hopefully that doesn't drop.  Outside of that, FOS (I expect will drop), investments (will drop), product sales (will drop), camping (frozen), activities (frozen), special events (frozen) … 75% of their revenue is either frozen or will see substantial declines due to COVID-19 and the economy.  I don't know their cash on hand but their cash flow will go negative this year without substantial cuts.   I hope they don't simply take the easy way out and sell a camp or two. 

    While I pushed back on immediately looking at council mergers as strong councils may tie themselves to high risk ones, I think COVID-19 and the resulting economy is a perfect storm that could permanently injure BSA if councils don't aggressively act together.  Hopefully the national BSA bankruptcy will provide the abuse protection and councils can evaluate mergers based upon ongoing operations vs risk.

  16. Not a fan of the virtual camps, though I appreciate the effort.  Our summers are fairly short here and my kids will have had enough of virtual learning by June (over 3 months of school).  I have no desire for them to be watching more videos during summer.  If camps cannot occur, I'll punt on the virtual programing and have them play outside without the structure of video guidance.  If camp is cancelled, I hope our Troop is allowed to put on our own.  If not, I think we will simply recommend some local parks for families to travel to and restart virtual programming (if needed) in the fall.

    • Upvote 1

  17. Looks like Sea Base is planning to be active in June.  Given this, I expect many councils will continue to plan to hold summer camps, unless states prevent them.  I was thinking there would be a lot of cancellations if HA bases close, but as they are remaining open, it will encourage councils to also find a way forward.

    In the end, it will really depend on the CDC and state health departments … they will have the final say.

  18. From info I could find.  There was a FB post where people listed councils that cancelled camps.  I tried to doublecheck their FB pages or websites and below are the ones I was able to confirm.  I expect may more will be coming and I didn't list the many that have cancelled camps in June (hoping that July dates hold).  

    Cancelled (BSA):

    • Allegheny Highlands Council (New York)
    • Blackhawk Area Council (Illinois)
    • Minsi Trails Council (Pennsylvania)
    • Nevada Area Council (Nevada)
    • Sam Houston Council (Texas)
    • Sequoia Council (California)
    • Southeast Louisiana Council (Louisiana)
    • Transatlantic Council (Europe)
    • Thanks 1

  19. 5 minutes ago, malraux said:

    Pretty sure ours are about to. There’s a big conference call tonight on the subject, at least on the cub side. But our governor has basically said no camps or pools open till July. 

    as a side note on that, does anyone have actual signup numbers. Ours are dead. No one signing up, no one asking about it, etc. even if it were allowed, we’d have to cancel because it doesn’t make any financial sense to run a camp with 5 kids. 

    Our camp is pushing hard for more signups, even today.  They have emphasized they absolutely plan on holding camp.  Now the CDC and health departments will have a say, and I expect <50% chance it happens.

    My Troop has over 40 signed up for summer camp at this time.  Over 400 are signed up for June dates (3 weeks) at the camp we attend.  We had only 1 scout pulled … that could change. We had an ASM get Covid-19 about two weeks ago, but he wants camps to be active and plans to send his kids.    

    We have several scout parents that are doctors and nurses … they are signing up as well.  What is interesting, is that the parents who are closer to health care are actually raising less concerns than the parents without health care backgrounds.  Now this could be based upon assumptions from the parents in health care of where we will be at in terms of the infection in late June vs non healthcare parents who are looking at the situation of where we are at now.  Just a guess.

  20. It looks like the CDC & White House are working on guidance that includes summer camp recommendations.  


    "As for summer camps, the CDC draft recommends that camps be restricted to children of essential workers in phase one, with phase two welcoming children who live in the local area only. By phase three, the CDC recommends that camps restrict attendance to those from limited transmission areas."

    I don't see any way High Adventure camps open this year given this guidance and if you live in high transmission areas you are probably out of luck for all camps all summer.  BSA summer camps would struggle to open depending on what is defined by "local area" and timing of phase two in each state. 

    So far, GSUSA cancelled but my kids other camps are still open (Zoo, local universities, local museums, local ecology centers).  GSUSA asked everyone to not ask for refunds and just use the fees for future years .. 

    • Upvote 1

  21. 1 hour ago, fred8033 said:

    I've seen this over and over again.  Maybe it's okay if the scout likes chasing patches for the sake of patches.  Most scouts roll their eyes at the tedious boredom and are frustrated with people wasting their time ... just like we hate our time wasted.  

    The MB program was supposed to be face-to-face and scouts is about being "active" and "growing".  I'm betting few scouts learn something new or interesting in such as session.

    IMHO, if the session is about getting the MB opportunity to as many as possible, then don't do it.  Either find a local councilor or wait for something special or unique or cool, 

    Our PLC is telling scouts to focus on the MBCs that require tracking (personal fitness, personal management) or are bookwork (Citizenships) right now.  The idea is to get those out of the way so you can focus on the outdoor ones later.  I thought that wasn't a bad idea.  

    • Upvote 2

  22. We received a couple emails from two councils who have camps in our state yesterday (seems like yesterday was the day to release updates).  

    1) Camps are still being planned; however, that can change.

    2) Camps will implement additional changes (temperate checks of everyone at arrival, hand sanitizer provided to everyone + at various locations, etc.)

    3) Three proposals are in discussion … summer camp schedule with no changes, summer camps to begin July 5 (June dates cancelled), alternate camping/advancement option if traditional summer camps are cancelled.

    4) All councils who have camps in our state are meeting to have a common plan for summer camp this year.

    5) CDC, state and county health departments are being consulted.

    Next update is May 4th.

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