Eagle1993

6 hours ago, ScouterDavid said:

My guess is that we can't afford current cutting edge leaders.

They paid Mosby over $500K per year (full C&B).

I'm sure Sea Scouts/Venturing cost money at National.  There is some amount of insurance, some attention form leadership, etc.  If numbers keep dropping there will be a risk vs return point where BSA feels it is no longer worth the risk/cost of supporting the programs. 

BSA gets about $1M of revenue a year from them (from fees)... much of that probably goes to insurance. So in terms of fees., the number of members left provide little revenue to offset any cost.

 If they get a lot of donations backing these programs, they will last. If donors don't care much about these programs... My guess they are at risk.  So donations will really be key to keep them around long term.

I really think the future of the BSA will be based on donors.  What do individual and corporate donors want to see in a scouting program.  Looking forward to our new AI offerings ...

Our Troop will likely hit around 24 scouts by the end of the year.  5 years ago we were 84 and had 53 attend summer camp.  12 of my 24 age out by 2025, so we really need to see more Cubs crossing over soon. 

 Two other Troops in my area have shuttered and one went from 70-80 to 8.  

I fear we are headed to a future of BSA having 90% of members in Cub Scouts and Scouts BSA limited to a small barely supported group maintaining a tradition.

2 hours ago, OaklandAndy said:

 

This is as of Oct '23. 

I bet we do see overall growth Jan to Jan by the end of the year (the would need to add at least 11,902 more scouts).  However, rechartering impact probably won't be officially counted until March.  Expect the revised Cub and Scouts BSA to show declines there.  I think in Jan 2023 we showed 3% overall growth which was nearly completely wiped away by March.  Personally I think the March to March numbers are most accurate (however, that will change going forward with rolling renewals).

The full year membership + increasing council fees are a concern.  I know our Council is pouring everything into Cub Scouts (almost ignoring Scouts BSA outside of Merit Badge clinics).   Hopefully that works as the Scout BSA Troops are really starting to suffer from the lean Cub Scout years.  

Any updates on how recruiting looks this fall?  I seem to remember seeing a lot of updates last fall, in terms of major growth of Cub Scouts, but haven't seen the same updates this one.  Curious if anyone has seen Cub Scouts continuing to grow and any turn around in Scouts BSA.

3 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

One thing that I am worried about, and is still missing is the transition from Cubs to Scouts. Research showed it takes 18-24 months to prepare folks. If you shorten it, which is what it is looking like, retention rates will drop. I know some packs already do not begin transition until 5th grade, and see those new Scouts dropping like flies because neither the Scouts, nor the parents, are ready for the differences between the two programs.

That research was likely before the addition of Lions.  I just met a pack yesterday and they are desperate to transition AOLs ASAP.  Kids and parents are burnt out, limited interest left in Cub Scouts.  Pack leaders said if transition waits until May we may only see one kid.  Ive seen transitions diminished over the last 3 years.  Some of that is COVID but Pack leaders are telling me burn out it hitting during 4th grade. 

I'm not sure if the new program is better, but retention is currently really bad, not sure it can get worse.

CFL was the summer camp our Troop went to for several years.  Our old camp site was hidden in a clearing that has been buldozed to the ground and replaced with RV pads.  

I was told There was a former scout, from Texas, that offered the council the same amount that was offered by the third party.  The former scout only request was to keep it as a scout camp.  The council decided it wasn't in their best interest as it was far from their home location and it was a lot of work and expense to maintain.  

My council sold one of their remaining camps... Only one left.  These camp sales are wearing me down.

1 hour ago, RememberSchiff said:

FYI:

https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2023/11/06/five-things-you-need-to-know-about-roger-krone-the-bsas-incoming-president-and-ceo/

Still hoping Mr. Krone holds a town meeting with Scouts and Scouters.

I found this interview more promising than Mosby.  Travel sports, social media and online gaming are major changes to what youth do and how they interact.  BSA has been slow to recognize this and hopefully Krone can find a way to break through. 

I think BSA also needs to understand that there are pressures on the volunteer model.  Stay at home moms and the 40 hour work week are not common.  Finding ways to lower burden and burnout on/of volunteers will also be critical to success.  

looking forward to a fireside chat or town hall soon!

4 hours ago, ALongWalk said:

Wow…one doesn’t accomplish this along with his career success without being a top notch performer and leader. This could be a real home run hire. I sure hope so.

I hope so too.  However, there is a pretty big difference in running an organization where most of your "employees" are volunteers, you are not measured in OM% and you are not selling products to the government.  His only connection to scouting seems to be from his youth.  I don't see any connection to running non-profits or youth organizations.  Roger has no Twitter (x) account that I could find, no social media presence, etc. 

In terms of accomplishments, one of the biggest he listed as winning the DoD EHR contract with Cerner.  That has been a disaster that has led to congressional hearings.  Nearly all of his income came from running a company that is able to manage government contracts.  Nothing wrong with that ... but I really struggle to see how this translates into BSA leadership.

19 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

I hope Mr. Krone communicates with Scouts and Scouters directly (no interviewer) and soon; next week would be good.

Maybe he will re-institute the Holiday Message.

I fully agree.  Hopefully he starts reaching out to scouts/volunteers ... listens to feedback and takes action, etc.  Mosby was absent these last few years, hopefully Mr. Krone can improve.

Why, why, why do we hire retired leaders?

My guess this is more about getting ties into industry for donations than an leader who really wants to learn how scouting is done today, what parents/society/youth need and making necessary changes.

6 hours ago, BigCubr said:

How strict are they on the weight tables?

Very strict. They won't even let you stay in base camp.  If you go, come in several pounds under.  There are stories of adults who traveled, gained a pound or two and went over and then were sent off site after weigh in.

9 minutes ago, sierracharliescouter said:

The huge problem with requiring all adult leaders on every campout to be registered with the unit is the issue of transparency of the program. It basically forces every parent of every scout to be registered if they want to be able to witness the program in action. From a legal perspective, I am more concerned about eliminating this element of transparency as I am of adhering to this strict new rule. Why would I, as a parent, trust adults that I may not know very well to be in charge of my kids when I can't witness first-hand how they handle campouts? There needs to be a reasonable carve-out of this new rule to allow for limited participation of YPT-trained by non-registered parents to see the program in action before committing to register.

If it is overnight that won't be an option.  The option is to register as a leader or don't have your kid attend.  Very similar to GSUSA.

16 minutes ago, SNEScouter said:

This was not easy to find but here it goes...

1) Hartford is paying a total of $787 million of which $137 million was payable on the Effective Date.  See Docket 8816, page 29.

2) Century is paying a total of $800 million of which $50 million was payable on the Effective Date.  See Docket 8907, page 6.

3) Zurich is paying $52.5 million.  As best as I can tell, none of it is payable until appeals are resolved.  See Docket 8907, page 158.

4) Clarendon is paying a total of $16.5 million of which $2.871 million was payable on the Effective Date.  See Docket 8907, page 227.

The above is what the insurers were contractually obligated to pay on the Effective Date with the rest coming due when all appeals are resolved.  It seems they are permitted to pay more earlier at their option.

Thanks!  I remember it was listed but couldn't find it in the various plan documents.  I wonder if the trust has to report monthly updates regarding their accounts/expenses.  I haven't seen it in the docket.

11 hours ago, MYCVAStory said:

If the court rules for a bond amount that D&V can't secure the Stay goes nowhere. 

I wonder if certain insurers would be willing to post that bond on their behalf.

If they can get the stay, I think there is a decent chance the plan is thrown out in June.  It now may be worth that bond payment from them...

Coming Sept 6

https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-news/scouts-honor-netflix-trailer-debut-boy-scouts-child-sexual-abuse-cover-up-1234806388/

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/scouts-honor-trailer-previews-netflix-165444814.html

15 minutes ago, SNEScouter said:

Respectfully, I must strongly disagree with your assessment of Purdue's impact on the BSA plan.

There is a HUGE difference between BSA and Purdue, which is that BSA's plan has already gone into effect.  Purdue's plan is now stayed and cannot go into effect, if at all, until after SCOTUS rules on the validity of non-consensual third-party releases.  (I agree June '24 is the likely timeframe for that decision.)

We are in unchartered territory here, and so a lot of permutations are possible.  BSA Plan Supporters are not happy to see SCOTUS reviewing nonconsensual third-party releases. 

That said, IMHO, the most likely outcome is that the Third Circuit receives all briefs and decides that the appeals of Lujan, D&V, Certain Insurers, etc. are equitably moot.  Briefing has already begun and so it seems like the Third Circuit ruling could come before a SCOTUS ruling in June '24, but who knows.  Therefore, even if there was reversible error in the BSA Plan approvals, the Third Circuit will likely find that it is powerless to reverse those errors because the plan has already gone into effect.  BSA is now a reorganized debtor and lots of assets have been paid to the Settlement Trustee in exchange for the third-party releases (largely by insurers and Local Councils).  The Settlement Trustee has already started incurring substantial operating expenses against those assets, and might very well start paying at least the expedited $3500 claims before either the Third Circuit or SCOTUS issues any rulings.  There are a lot of other aspects of the plan which also depended (at least indirectly) upon the third-party releases.  It would be virtually impossible for an appeals court to unscramble that egg. 

So even if SCOTUS ultimately finds in Purdue that nonconsensual third-party releases are not permissible, it does not follow that BSA's plan will be imperiled or affected by that ruling.  Today, and certainly by June '24, it will be a practical impossibility to reverse the implementation of BSA's plan of reorganization.  When Plan Supporters file their Third Circuit briefs in the relative near future, you can expect to see a lot of arguments like the above under the heading of equitable mootness.

By the way, equitable mootness is virtually certain NOT to be in issue in Purdue.  Because of the SCOTUS decision to stay the Purdue plan pending SCOTUS's ruling, the Purdue plan will not go into effect before SCOTUS rules, and equitable mootness will not be at issue.  So the Third Circuit is going to apply existing law on equitable mootness, which as I understand tend to favor overruling the various appeals.

Hope you are correct.

Questions... 

1) Most of the $ comes from insurance companies and little has been paid. What percentage of the billions committed has been paid? I wonder how it will be moot if the powder is still dry.  

2) It is clear the Supreme Court is now questioning non consensual non debtor releases.  This is a change and one would think appellants will highlight this change in their appeals.  Could that cause insurance companies to slow role the process? 

The big question is if non debtor releases are unconstitutional, doesn't that open up COs and Local Councils to lawsuits even if the plan is approved?  

Volunteers are the life blood of the program.  Too often, the same volunteers are asked for more and more support over and over.  If you look who has the least free time to volunteer, it is parents.  They are busy working to earn enough money to support their family, save for retirement, pay off mortgages and college loans etc.  They are also the ones who typically coach their kids little league games and serve as unit leaders. 

Councils should focus on past scouts (18-30 year olds) and empty nest past scouters (55+) for the core of district/council leadership.  Instead, I am typically called multiple times a year to volunteer for district positions.  I simply cannot dedicate enough time.  I mentioned the idea of using NESA lists and was told that wasn't a great option.

For BSA sake and the sake of the victims of abuse, I hope this plan can remain intact.  However, I still struggle seeing bankruptcy abused in various ways (shell companies being created by J&J or non debtors like the Slackers avoiding the full weight of their horrible actions).  

I think it is clearly time the SC weighs in on non debtor releases.  They continue to expand.  Given the courts conservative leaning, one could guess that they may not agree as Congress has never authorized non debtor releases (outside of asbestos) and it is clearly not in the constitution.  However, this is not a typical right vs left issue so who knows where the 9 members will fall.  This could make some odd bedfellows.

I really hope the plan remains intact. If it doesn't, I see a decade of council and charter org lawsuits and bankruptcy with primarily lawyers getting rich.

This is interesting.  Supreme Court put the Purdue Pharma plan on hold ato hear arguments about allowing non debtor releases.  One wonders if this could give a bit of fuel to the appeals against the BSA plan.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/10/politics/supreme-court-purdue-pharma-opioid-settlement/index.html

They saw this coming and were not prepared...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/08/09/south-korea-scout-jamboree-heatwave-preparations/

1 hour ago, sierracharliescouter said:

Pretty amazing statement to have to say about a scouting organization.

I'd say there is a lot of blame to go around. As far as BSA is concerned, if I had the responsibility of sending 600 people to go camping in a foreign country, I'd like to think I'd have been asking more pressing questions ahead of sending the contingent. NCAP exists for a reason. It should be policy that when sending a contingent NCAP standards are compared to the event standards, and decisions can be made about what "good enough" would be, since holding World to US NCAP standards can reasonably be judged as too stringent.

I have to wonder if there were any real written "standards" for this event.

Fully agree. YPT barriers to abuse are not international, if the setup prevents those barriers then BSA should have identified that early. Just one of many examples.  

What a disaster.  US/UK scouts look like they were thinking ahead now that the entire Jambo is cancelled early and everyone is scrambling.  WOSM needs to be better prepared. 

A bit more info from FB:

From Jeness Woodard #1

This is a WOSM event and monies went to them, not BSA. Further, MANY other contingents are leaving, the issue is logistics. The US is extending their contract with the bus company previously used, which is why we are able to leave. This also takes time. 1200 people just cannot be moved in an instant, even if we would like them to. Also, whether or not you are having fun depends on the attitude of the leader toward the problem. The issue is not the having fun, it is safety, health, medical care, and lack of food. This would, frankly, be a health emergency in the US and be shut down. And it would still take time to get everyone off site. And others are correct, this is like a summer camp and it would not be judicious of a leader to keep a kid in this type of situation. Watch the recording from this morning's parent video, it has way more info. But for reference, statistically they were expecting 500-600 people in the medical tents daily, there has been 5000-10000 and they cannot track your kids if they go to a hospital.

reasons we have to go: heat, not enough shade - too little, too late. proper storage of food. started at 600 calories of food, getting better - not enough. deplorable sanitation issues. would be a health emergency if it was in the US. YPT issues. weather - typhoon bands are coming. don't believe site can handle it. more torrential rain on Sun and Mon. clear we had to leave based on safety

medical 5000-10000 patients in medical daily. predicted was about 500. Cannot provide enough care. specialist referrals not happening. Americans going to hospitals cannot be tracked. Health of ALL participants is at high risk. Our own medical folks cannot manage the needs without assistance

Monday, depart base. neverland and lego store. Tuesday, baseball game. Wednesday, on base culture day, including water games, bounce house, snow cones, movies on site. Thursday off base- Suan fortress. Led special performance. Live viewing of the closing ceremony - virtual. Down time - use stuff on site. Hot meal in morning and evening. to go meals at lunch. reached out to other contingents to see if they are local and want to interac

Sleeping in middle school gymnasiums, organized by unit, separated by gender, bathrooms too. not restricted this time and greater flexibility on base. Scouts proved to base that they can behave. bringing in games. schedule will be posted.

quarantine for Covid did not exist because of change in gov't policy change. US kid came w/ Covid. Nowhere on site to house sick. US team told them quarantine in tent is not ok and quarantine site reopened. no rapid flu test because it is not flu season in Korea (is in other places). again, plan is to put person in their tent to quarantine. There are other, in my opinion, diseases folks bring - like TB, so no quarantine for those either

medical care on base is being billed to insurance, like it would be if taken to urgent care or ER. Pulled out - UK (4000 scouts), US, many others are leaving and working on logisticsother groups are asking if they can come on our military base as well. that has to go through the embassy and the state department.