Eagle94-A1

Well my camporee was postpone by Matthew, so we'll find out what the scouts like and want in my neck of th4 woods shortly.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjL-Pae3trPAhWGQiYKHabNAQkQFgg8MAU&url=http%3A%2F%2Ftroop605.net%2F%3Fdl_name%3DProgram_Features_Vol_1.pdf&usg=AFQjCNHqNii86EcyslCZ29SZXtZzb66I3Q

is a link for V1

As someone who has 3 kids in Scouting, as much as I would love a discount, I really think it depends.  On one level, you have fixed expenses for your Scouts, and to offer a discount will cause problems. Awards, food, campsite fee's etc come immediately to mind.

But there are instances where a discount can be done. I know in my council, two Cub Scout activities I attend have a maximum fee for a family. What's the benefit? Kids do the activities and either A) stay in Scouting or B) want to be a Scout when old enough or C) help staff the event.

Can you post a link?

Hedgehog, I have said, several times already, the decision to not participate in OA was made by my Chartered Organization in response to the cultural appropriation issue.  

 

Even in the most youth-lead units, the Chartered Organization has the right to set policy, particularly if the actions of the unit might be seen to reflect badly on the CO.

 

The reason I found the remark interesting is because my CO made the decision to avoid conduct that might be perceived as racial prejudice.  It seems to me that my CO is being accused of prejudiced behavior for choosing to avoid prejudiced behavior.

 

Sometimes, you just can't win either way.  You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't.

Sorry to hear your CO doesn't approve of the OA, especially for the reason they are using. If they looked into the OA's history they would see how the OA has served as a means of preserving and in some cases rediscovering elements of Native culture. There are a lot of former and current Arrowmen with an AIA background who have become advocates for Native issues.

Unless you are in LDS country and an LDS unit, it should not affect you. While Varsity Scouting is a national program,  LDS church are the ones who pushed fro the program's creation in the early to mid 1980s, and all of the Varsity Scouts I've seen are LDS Scouts, although i've been told there are some non-LDS Varsity Scouts out there.

Maybe I should have been clearer when I posted my comments regarding "best of the best." In my troop growing up,  the Arrowmen were looked up to as the best the troop had to offer because they were. The non-Arrowmen in the troop really did looked up to them and tried to model their behaviors. Those not elected, like me the first two years I was eligible, strived to  imitate them and give back to the troop. Once I got in, I understood why they humbly gave back to the troop. The Arrowman didn't think they were better or acted as if they were better than everyone else. Rather they knew they had an obligation to serve the troop, and did so. The Arrowman were looked up to by the non-Arrowmen.

As for Arrowman lamenting the members are no longer the "best of the best," I think we old fogeys remember when the OA was an Society of Honor Campers who humbly and cheerfully did lots of grunt work at the various camps to keep them operational at little to no cost to the council. We had obligations and duties to serve our units, districts, and councils, and took those responsibilities seriously. Our early leaders created a way to try and prevent elitism with having only a unit's members vote for candidate from the troop instead of OA members voting. And elections were done to a stricter standard than today's standard not as a show of elitism, but rather to make sure folks who did get elected into the OA fully knew the expectations and obligations of service would be expected of them.

Yes we had sash and dash back in the day. Heck I admit I was one after I got Brotherhood and didn't' get back involved until college. But part of that was frustration at showing up to meetings and events, and being the only person, or one with one other usually from my troop, being there.

As for posting in a public forum, I did so because I was hoping this situation was not nationwide. I admit I was depressed about the situation and was hoping to get some cheering up. Yes, I know there are challenges. Yes I have my opinions on why those challenges are occuring. But I was hoping I was wrong. Apparently problems are all over. Maybe we should focus on trying to solve them. I know I would love for elections to go back to the pre1990 rules. But i do not think that will happy in today's "Everyone gets a trophy" mentality our society has today.

Regarding cultural appropriation and the OA. that topic has come up over and over again. Check out some of my previous posts on the topic. As you can guess, you may be surprised how much the OA has helped to preserve the culture, as well as provide advocates for Native causes.

We had a similar situation where a Scout transferred into the troop from a folded one. His SCOUTNET records were completely messed up as they showed him with NO rank or MBs. Using his BSHB and blue cards, we reconstructed his records.

ALWAYS KEEP COPIES OF RECORDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ( caps for emphasis, ok maybe a little yelling at the top of my lungs in warning )

There have been several instances that I have been personally involved with where records were messed up by the council, and I had to either reconstruct or help reconstruct them. Worse were the training records for adults. Not fun telling a Philmont Trainer Center Staffer who has been involved with BSA for over 50 years he's "untrained" according to training records.

Regarding OA and "special forces," yep growing up the OA was the "best of the best."  When I didn't get elected the first time, I had no problems as  those who did get in were definately worhty, and I just turned First Class before the election. Not every Eagle Scout got into the OA as a youth either. My cousin didn't get in as youth, he got in when his son did, 20+ years after earning Eagle. And I know several other Eagles who didn't get elected.

And it wasn't so much as "I'm better than you." attitude, but more , "MAN HE"S GOT HIS ACT TOGETHER AND CAN HANDLE ANY OUTDOOR SITUATION!" (caps for emphasis)

I find it interesting that you would describe my Chartered Organization's decision to not participate in cultural appropriation as adult bias and prejudices.

While I admit, there are Arrowman who really screwed up things. I've seen it first hand. But you do know that when the OA was founded, native Americans were not US citizens, and could be punished for practicing their languages and religion? Some Natives actually encouraged folks to learn their ways, including the OA, as a way of preserving their heritage? Did you know that you have Arrowman in a variety of field: anthropology, archeology, history, etc who got their interest in these areas because of the OA. And they have made impacts in helpign various Native tribes get recognition, reintroduce languange and crafts an other aspects ofg native culture that would be lost today if these Arrowman hadn't helped out?

Been there, good luck with that...write a letter to SE and National for all that it will help. Expect the BSA "nod and a wink" for your efforts. 

 

It is a rewarding experience for me when a scout refuses to turn in a signed MB because he felt the badge was not earned. Doesn't happen often but when it does it is Scouting.

Yes I know, an uphill battle indeed. Sad thing is that I use to be a staffer at camp way back when, and am very disappointed.

The old SM apparently encountered this problem at the camp before, and essentially struck it off the list of camps the Scouts could chose from. Troop didn't go to that camp for 15 years (although the troop folded for 5 years and then was reborn).  The camp the Scouts had been choosing does a really good job with instruction, but does not have some of the resources that other camps have. Thus their programming is lacking a bit.

_{To quote Lord Vader, " NNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"}

As other suggested, use resources within your pack. Then go to your CO's troop. If that doesn't help, get a First Aid MB counselor to help. And if that doesn't help, use any personal contacts in the medical field.

My pack is fortunate in that we have a bunch of MDs, RNs, and EMTs in the pack. That is one of the first, if not the first adventures, they did. Unfortunately the den also saw their ADL, DL, and ACM go into action on one of the den's field trips.

One thing that may help reinforce the skills is using them as victims in  Boy Scout first Aid training/ events.  My Webelos, and Wolf were victims for a first aid drill Oldest son's troop did. Webelos even was able to give some feedback to the Scouts!  At the district camporee, I've asked two dens to rotate as victims for the first aid scenario.

I hate to say this, but now that I'm active with a troop again, I am seeing this more and more.  Went to a MB college in which son took 2 MB classes, and earned both. While one was legitimately earned, the other wasn't. MBC not only didn't use the current requirements for the class, he didn't even complete the 5-10 year old requirements he was using. Son "earned" that MB, but me as a parent made him do the missing requirements. Worst part is, the requirements missing were the fun parts of the MB.  Same situation happened at camp. Son "earned" a MB that he didn't finish the requirements on. Heck the supplies for that MB were inadequate as folks had to be teamed up to do the projects, and they didn't have one project's supplies on hand at the camp at all. Long story short, Oldest has the missing supplies, and will be completing the MB. One Scout after a day at camp withdrew from the MB class. According to the report, he did all but 2 requirements in a day! I am an MBC for that MB, and I can say NO WAY CAN IT BE DONE IN AN HOUR!  And I am starting to see a few other Scouts "earning" MBs but didn't complete the work after this year's camp.

The new SM is writing a letter to the CD about this, and he has assigned the venture patrol with doing research on other camps to go to this summer.

I admit I'm a little into patch collecting. Heck I helped design a lodge's NOAC and lodge 50th Anniversary flaps, as well as Fall fellowship temp patches.

But to paraphrase Inigo Montoya: I WANT MY OA BACK....

That was the surprising thing for me. Local lodge is active. Lodge does lots of AIA stuff, puts on displays at council camporee, etc. it's the local chapter that is having issues.

Another sad point, I was chapter advisor before oldest was in Cubs. In fact I stepped down because I was becoming a Tiger Den Leader. We were the most active chapter in the lodge. The chapter restarted the lodge AIA committee, promoted ceremonies etc.

On a positive note. I'm proud of the oldest for making a mature decision. I know when I was involved in the OA as a youth and adviser, I'd rather Scouts back out at the election, than A) get elected and not go through as a friend of mine did or B) "Sash and Dash"

Not this in OA only as I think it’s a general topic. Last night my troop held OA elections 2 of the youth decided they did not want to run. The First Scout said he was not interested, and I think it gave courage to the second Scout to say he's not interested since he had been elected twice, but never gone through the Ordeal.

I had a chance to talk to the first Scout on the way home it was my son. He basically said he had no appeal to join since all he sees it as another meeting to go to a month.  He does not see them doing anything. He would rather stay home and spend the limited time he gets for games playing them. I've not been as active as I would like with the OA, but thinking about everything the chapter use to do, and is doing now, he is correct.  I really do not see them doing as much as they use to. If anything is getting done, i.e. taking care of the local camp, it's the adults doing the work, not the youth.

This really hit home for me.  I am a Vigil. OA is what kept me going after I earned Eagle, providing me with challenges and opportunities that my Sea Scout ship didn’t offer. I’ve been an OA associate advisor and chapter advisor, so I know what the OA has to offer.

But for whatever reason, the OA has lost its luster with the ones who really matter: the Scouts.  

Yes, it's frustrating. And some of the "projects" are not really Eagle quality, more of a Good Turn than anything.

I too like it when a Scout takes initiative, and does a project from scratch in an area he's interested in. Best example, which was a short term success and long term failure, was an attempted reforestation project one of my Eagles did. Dang if he didn't bust his butt doing it. Just wish the tree guards he made per Forestry Service standards worked.

"And so it begins"

Yes, I know it's hard to say no to your kids. But sometimes you gotta. We had siblings do events when I was a DL. The last year was the hardest because the siblings did EVERYTHING, and the parents, or more likely grandparents, didn't help that much. It was overwhelming. 

We had these types of events when I was a DE. No youth around, and mostly your corporate types who are the BIG donors. I only saw 1 scouter involved with a unit in attendance. He and his twin brother were two of my district big donors, and he was a CM with his son's pack. Event still occurs, but the price is too much for most unit serving adults.

I would not mind semi-annual COHs.  Seems like quarterly COHs often have not much to recognize and often seem like a COH to have a COH.

 

I like the idea of having a supply chest of ranks and MBs so that scouts can be uniformed correctly.  Have the COH recognize the progress, but have the scouts uniformed correctly.  

Exactly. Our Scouts even view the semi-annual COHS as a COH to have one.

As for the "war chest" many have come about because councils and scout shops run out of stuff when needed. It was funny, no matter how many MBs we would order for the rush after summer camp, we would still run out of them.

Grant you, the term "candidate" may be tradition and not structured that way, until the 1989 changes to BSA program, i.e. doing away with Skill Awards and time requirements for T-2-1 ranks; introduction of NSPs and venture crews now called venture patrols, etc program materials showed that you got your rank and MBs at COHs. In fact I heard one reason why they got rid of Skill Awards was because the immediate recognition was no longer needed since Scouts are suppose to get their ranks as soon as possible after completing the BOR.

One reason why COHs are supposed to be scheduled quarterly is because originally Scouts had to wait until the COH to get their rank. But most troops I know about nowadays only do semiannual COHs because they see no need to hold them more often with the Scouts getting their ranks as soon as they complete their BORs. Heck I know a few troops keep a "war chest" of ranks and MBs so that they can issue the rank the same night the Scout completes his BOR!

The place the venture patrol camped at had several stone fireplaces in some sites. Real nice set ups too I might add. Still need to put it out when you leave.

NC Troop here.

October             camporee

November         DC Trip

December         Wilderness Survival

January             TBD by new PLC

BSA did make a few larger size ones a few years back. Unfortunately there is not enough demand with folks going to 3rd party vendors to get properly sized neckers. So national quit making them. My troop is up a creek as the troop's necker is one they ran out of. Our resident seamstress has the supplies we ordered, but health problems have overshadowed the production at the moment.

THIS.TICKS.ME.OFF!

And I see it to much. Last time was when the venture patrol went backpacking. Group in another campsite left the remains of their bonfire going. Took the patrol about 45 minutes to put that sucker out since they had to make several trips to the stream to get water. We were already behind schedule, and that added to it.