Eagle94-A1

Boys in my unit aren't allowed to call adults by their first names.  ASM's are always called Mister.  

 

When I transitioned from student to teacher (during student teaching), this was the most awkward part for me. I wasn't used to having people call me Mister.

 

It was a good thing though.  I was very young looking for my age, and I really needed to do the name change. I could have very easily been mistaken for a student. 

I can relate to being confused with a student. Happened to me during student teaching too, especially since I accidentally dressed according to the school's dress code. At least I didn't get a detention for not having a name tag. Didn't wear khaki pants and white dress shirt again.

As for being called MISTER being the most awkward for you, I wish. Try having your cousin (who doesn't know you are related to her) and her friends in the class you are teaching and trying flirt with you Thankfully my girlfriend at the time, who was an alumna, decided on the spur of the moment to visit some of her old teachers and just happened to see me during lunch on my second day of teaching.  That stopped the flirting.

Growing up, it was always Mr. First Name. Except 1 SM whom we called '"DOC" Last name as he was an MD.

Those 18-20 year olds that stayed around, depending upon whom it was , would either go by Mr. First name too (usually the younger guys) or last name only (those they grew up with)

Except one guy. He was THE FIRST NAME LAST NAME!  He left the troop before his ECOH, going into the USAF. He was one of my SPLs while I was a PL, and really was a great mentor. Lots of sayings he used, I used later on when I was ASPL, and even today.He came back 4 years after earning Eagle and had his ECOH. Even though he knew only a handful of Scouts, EVERYONE knew him and his sayings. One of the new Scouts asked me if he was THE_________, and when I said yes, everyone started calling him THE ______________ and was in awe of him. A true legend in his own time.

Troop has a designated meeting nite, 4th Monday of the month.  Scouts have until the 3rd Monday to notify the SM he wants a BOR.

I would not have selected your son to be an ASM until he finished high school.  The transition is tricky enough for an 18 year old who is a recent graduate.  I can only imagine how awkward it would be for your son to be a classmate during the school day and an adult leader in the evening and on weekends.

You'd be surprised at how little awkwardness there is. Besides, what other position is there for  18-20 year olds to be in a Boy Scout troop except as a Merit Badge Counselor, a district position.

I too was an 18 y.o. ASM. I jumped through the hoops to get "trained," although like your son I could have taught the courses.

Despite all the training, knowledge, skills, and abilities, it was hard for me to make the transition. Yes working with the younger Scouts helps a lot. I've found young Scouts have a puppy-like devotion to the older ones. The older ones may be a challenge as they are use to him being a peer. But for me, I had to be reminded multiple times and be mentored multiple times that I'm no longer a Scout, but a Scouter, and I need to act like a Scouter and not a Scout. Yes, I was that bad.

The other issue being a "G.A.S.er" (Gray Area Scouter, i.e. 18-20) was not being taken seriously as an adult by other adults outside the troop. I got active in the OA, and in turn on the district and council levels, as a young adult. Some folks told me I don't know what I'm doing, ignored my ideas, etc. It can became frustrating at times.

A great example is the citizen merit badges.  For a inexperienced 11 year old, they may be good.  But for a seventeen year old who is academically average, they are lame and way less than they learned in school.

 

Actually 2 were 16 year old juniors and one was a sophmore at an early college HS.  The two 16 year olds had Civics as freshman, and they didn't know a lot of the MB material. the Sophmore will take Civics/poliSci next year.

MBs serve a variety of purposes: make sure Scouts have basic life skills, intro to hobbies and future careers, etc.

Now I'm not a fan of "paper pushing" MBs, but after my experiences this weekend, I am deeply upset with the public school education system in my neck of the woods, and am glad Citizenship in the Nation is required. NONE of the 4 Scouts I was working with this weekend, 3 of whom were supposed to have taken Civics already, could not give the background on the origins of the Revolutionary War, didn't know what our grievances were, and did not know that there were 3 coequal branches of government. One Scout told me "The Judicial Branch is the most powerful since they make the laws." No concept of Checks and Balances, no idea of the actual duties of each branch ( one Scout was surprised at the actual duties of Congress. I cut him some slack since he hadn't had Civics yet). Again 3 of the 4 were supposed to have had this topic in school already!

What is encouraging was my Webelos son. He's homeschooled and was invited to go on the trip to DC. He was stuck with me and the folks working on Citizenship in the Nation. He had a better understanding of some of this stuff than the HS age Scouts. His curriculum has covered some of this, but not at the level of detail as the MB.

My old DE, who is now a FD in another council made this comment about the rule change and the judge's blocking it: how many DE's have already either lost their job, or received notice that they will be losing their job, over the executive order?

True. I say the law school divorce was worst because it came completely out of the blue. The others had some inclinations as they were having problems, and in one case, the DE gave up the job to work on the marriage only to still have it fall apart. Even my wife was giving me signs of frustration with the job before the ultimatum.

Long story short, I do not wish the job on my worse enemy,

Don't know if they are available over here or even in production anywhere. I asked a buddy who worked at Philmont a number of years, and he doesn't think it would be feasible there.

http://www.io.tudelft.nl/onderzoek/delft-design-labs/applied-labs/ambulance-drone/

  I also recall some talk that being in that position tends to wreak a heavy toll on a marriage.

 

I told you the ultimatum my wife gave me.  One long time pro I worked with was married to wife #3. After I quit, I found out she separated from him within a year.  2 coworkers got divorced because of the hours. One of my DEs told me the reason his wife divorced him was the job. By the time he did something about it, it was too late. Once divorced, he came back.

Worst story was a DE I had who put his wife through law school. As soon as she graduated and passed the bar, he was served divorce papers.

On the flip side, if you are young and SINGLE ( emphasis)  it can be a great starter job. You will gain a heck of  lot of experience. One friend left the profession, and  doubled his salary. My coworkers are dumbfounded by some of the things I did as a DE.

I've never understood that.  I'd love to be a professional scout.  One of my biggest ambitions at one time.

To quote the Ninth Doctor, " RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!"

As a former DE, I can tell you it is extremely stressful, no matter where you go. And if you get a lousy boss amplify your worst nightmare a 100 fold. In the 22 months I was a DE, my council went through 9 DEs, a field director and finance director (both middle managers). I stayed around for 6 months before going to national supply, and they went through an additional 3 or 4 DEs.  My replacement was one of those who left within 3 months.

Shortest term as a DE was about 2-3 weeks. Guy was in the emergency room with the neighbor who brought him. Neighbor call the Director of Field Service ( #2 guy in council) and t the DFS what was up. The DFS told the neighbor to tell the DE to come to the staff meeting or get fired.  DE quit over the phone.

In my case, I was having stress related health issues. But the deciding factor was when my wife of 2 months told me I had to pick: her or the job.

One of the guys in my Sea Scout ship got sent home from jamboree for destroying about $3000 worth of gear. I knew the story, but not who it was until an incident with the Ship and his mom told me. Mom backed up the adults.

Had to send another "Scout" home for assaulting a leader with a tree branch. That was touch as the adult defended himself and did make contact with the "Scout."  Mom supported the "Scout," despite the fact that the "scout" assaulted the adult in front of the entire troop and other adults.

Incident at a camp I worked at involved a "scout" whose parents refused to pick him up after 3 attempts by the troop's adults to get the parents to pick him up. Camp director got involved, and called the parents while they were still on vacation at Disney. When they refused, the CD gave them a deadline to pick up their son, or he was going to report either an abandoned child or Trespassing child to child protective services.  The parents made it with about 30 minutes to spare.

Worse case was sending home an entire troop. Adults with them couldn't control the kids, and they destroyed about $60,000 worth of property at the camp. All but 1 was sent home via the sheriff's department. That one was not a trouble maker, he actually wanted to be a Scout, and was hidden by  some of the youth staffers. Long story short, 2 staffers had to drive him home, and prevent dad from putting a belt to his butt. 

Agree with NJ.  I've met only 1 individual who received a religious award that was not of his faith. This was a respected council level Scouter who worked to get a religious community more involved in Scouting, and help them set up a council committee for their faith. The faith community thanked him by awarding him their adult leader recognition. It was a surprise and humbling experience for him.

Don't forget James E. West Knot. ( And yes I saw a Cub Scout with one! )

re-reading this old post.... qwazse I think missed my point...

why would they offer both the diamond rank badge AND the oval rank badge, for the SAME rank?

   It still strikes me that to someone and at some point along the line, somebody must have intended this to be some sort of transitional thing, given that the rank patch is the same size, shape, smell, taste, and feel, as the Scout ranks

 

Honestly, that whole rank patch thing to me smells like there were three parallel schools of thought happening and the folks weren't talking with each other.

.... I mean if a scout were to opt for the diamond WEBELOS rank badge, where does it go in the diamond on his Cub uniform?  Why Does the newly minted WEBELOS remove his Tiger?  that just doesn't make any sense.....

Here's a little history about the Tiger Badges, and oval Webelos Badges.

From August 1982 to about  early1990s,  Tiger Cubs as they were called were not officially part of a pack. Their uniform consisted of an orange tshirt and full tiger paw iron on decals. At the end of the school year, they received a square "Tiger Cub Graduate" patch that was worn on the right pocket, and could be worn with the "Progress Toward Ranks" totem, essentially covering it up. At some point the Tiger Paws had cut outs in them to correspond to the activity the Tiger earned. Major problems with those ( the iron on decals kept getting messed up due to the cut outs). But the patch at the end of the year went from a square patch on the pocket to a "Tiger Cubs, BSA" strip under the right pocket, so it wouldn't be covered up.

Sometime in the 1995-1997 time frame when I worked for national supply, the iron on decals went away, and a belt fob with  recessed diamond shape in the middle, came out. You earned beads then when you earned your Tiger Cub Rank, the new diamond shape Tiger Cub Badge was placed on the belt fob. What was cool was that the Tiger Cub Badges had a glue background that you peeled and stuck to the belt fob.

At some point in the early 2000s, Tigers were fully incorporated into the Cub Scout program. The belt totem became a pocket totem, and the Tiger Cub Badge became an official patch to wear on the pocket. BUT WHERE?  Someone at national decided that since most Webelos went to the tan and green uniform, go ahead and put the Tiger Cub Rank patch in the spot where the Webelos badge would go. And since Webelos are transitioning from Cub Scouts tyo Boy Scouts, create a new Oval Webelos badge.  Problem was that the LDS units, and more traditional units, as well as those parents and Cub Scouts who kept the Blue uniform on wanted the traditional diamond shaped patch. So then the option of removing the Tiger Patch and replacing with Webelos patch, wearing the blue Webelos diamond by itself, or in in a tan and green uniform going with the oval caem about.

Policy has been around a very long time. Earliest I remember is 1998. And it's  been in the Guide to Safe Scout, Shooting Sports manuals etc for as long as I remember.

That said, on the Cub Scout level, one definition of a district/council event is 2 or more packs together doing the same activity. I know there has been talk having a Shooting Sports Day for all Cub Scouts in my district for some time. Just don't have the staff.

Well I'm off the hook for this weekend. Not only did only did 1, yes ONE, person sign up for Wilderness First Aid, causing us to cancel, only 4 people registered for ITOLS.  So training chair talked to staff  about not showing up. We had more staff than participants.

Maybe the system seems rigged because the Execs are influencing the big buck donors because the CORs are not doing their job and representing their units at the district and council level?

Yes I knew an SE who got the folks he wanted on the executive committee, but there were no CORs attending those meetings. IF CORs would be active, would represent their COs and units, it can make a difference.

Question for ya, if you are so anti-BSA and have another outdoor program with your CO, Why don't you tell the families they need to look elsewhere for a unit, or allow the unit to find a new home? I've seen what happens when COs do not support the program: the youth suffer in the long term.

 

 

I was thinking that scouting would typically give a young man better grounding, support, and so on.... to deal with stuff outside of scouts....but scouting might also add pressures and problems too.

just thinking out loud

such as adult lead issues squashing the fun and adding pressure.... can't drive till Eagle, and so on....

We had one Scout attempt suicide a few years past. He was extremely active and wonderful  Scout. However his personal life took a dive with his parents' divorce and mother's remarriage. Scouting was his out, his way of relieving pressure at home etc. But his grades suffered. It was when Mom took him out of Scouts because of his grades that he attempted suicide. Thankfully he failed and got help. If memory serves, his psychologist told the mom taking him out of Scouts at all was a mistake. Eventually he got back involved, and transferred to a different troop when the mom and stepdad moved.

As someone who has practically begged CORs to get active, I respectfully disagree. I think it reflects on the CORs.  Especially when I had units complaining about lack of representation on the district and council level.

As you know, few COR's regularly attend council and district meetings.  I think this reflects the deteriorating relationship between BSA and the Chartered Organizations, not the activity level of the COR.

Know it all to well that few, if any CORs attend district and council meetings. But I do not think it is because of the deteriorating relationship.  They either A) Do not know they are part of those committees, or B) Do not care.

True story, when I was a DE I actually went to every single IH per the charter agreement. Not only to introduce myself, but also to inform the His that their CORs are part of the district and council committees, representing the CO and its units. No COR ever showed up. Tried to get the Pack's COR, who obviously is the problem troop above's COR, to get involved when he showed up on a troop camping trip ( this was before the change in troop leadership that lead to changes I described). He never showed up to another Scouting event ever again.

Good point.

Generally, in units with a sense of rugged individualism, I've seen UC can be a problematic position, followed by COR.

In my experience units without a UC, even a lousy one who is only seen at recharter time, do somewhat better than the "rugged individual" units.  The units I've seen while appearing OK, have problems, usually major problems. 

I've mentioned the troop that doesn't use the patrol method, outdoor method, etc. that frustrated 3 UCs (one UC a member of the CO, one UC a den leader with the CO's pack, and one UC who was a MC of the troop prior to leaving the area to take care of a dying mother and coming back to the area) and ran off a 4th UC.

Another example would be a pack that created a "Barney Den" for kindergartners that was actually doing advancement work at that level.

A third example would be the pack that rushed their Cubs through the program, not following rules, and tried to get 4th grade 9 year olds their Arrow of Light so they could be Boy Scouts.

A fourth example would be the troop that did a lot of HA, and was very active. From all outside appearances the troop was top notch. However, when the troop folded to join Trails' Life, issues began to emerge. Advancement was a problem. They discouraged rapid advancement, making Scouts wait to take certain MBs and have BORs. And they ignored changes in advancement requirements allowing Scouts to use old requirements and ignore new ones.  While you would think this would appear at the EBORs that their Scouts had, it wasn't caught until after the folding. Several of their Scouts transferred to another troop. When one was going for his Life BOR, it was discovered that the old troop ignored some of the new Life requirements. Not only did it cause a delay in earning Life, the Scout had to appeal to National to have an EBOR since he would not have the "6 months as a Life Scout...." due to the original troop. Thankfully National granted the appeal, and the Scout stayed active a year after turning 18, when he went to college. Still, he is a "unit college scouter reserve" and helps out as he can.

Regarding CORs, unless they are duel enrolled as CC/COR, they are usually on paper only and not active. Pack's COR is a challenge to find and get paperwork signed. I'm still waiting for them to sign off on my wife's paperwork, and it was submitted 2 times now! And as I mentioned, I know of only 1 COR to ever attend district/council level meetings.

I have never been a COR.  The only two adult positions I have ever held in scouting are SM and IH.

 

I am aware of the fact that my COR may sit in district and council committees.  He and I both agree that the system is rigged (at council) and it would be a futile waste of time for him to participate.  

 

My COR does occasionally appear at council to vote against their slate of candidates or register a protest vote on a particular matter that catches his attention.  That's up to him.

 

If the council were to surprisingly decide to heed our wishes, we would ask that they not appoint a UC to our unit.  I very much doubt that will happen.

Sorry you feel that way. Question I have now is, why do you use Scouting? Why not use another program or create your own?

One thing I completely forgot is COUNCIL DIVISIONS AND MERGERS (emphasis)  We have in my neck of the woods several troops that have had their numbers changed over the years as the result of separating from a council and merging of councils. Oldest continually chartered troop has had 3 or 4 different numbers in it's 104 year history as a result of creating a new council and merging councils over the years. One troop locally has been in 3 councils and has had 3 different numbers as a result. BUT they have been around since WWI.