OldGreyEagle

Geez Beav, you sure know how to suck the fun right out of a potentially entertaining thread... BTW, Thank you

I take it all 80 tennis balls are the same color, even if not, this will still work. Take one tennis ball and mark it up distinctive from the rest, maybe spray paint it black. Put the black ball on the bottom of a small garbage pail and add on top all the other balls. Tell each patrol the object is to find the one ball that is different from all the others and the only rule is they have to leave the area the way they found it and time how long it takes for them to find the black ball. The definitive way is to turn the bucket upside down, spill all the balls out and spot and grab the black ball and then the members of the patrol all help pick up the balls and return them to the pail. Odds are though most will do all sorts of things not to make a mess even though the only rule is they cant leave it a mess. Cleaning up at the end is such a foreign concept it will be interesting to see what they come up with.

So maybe the topic should be how could communication be improved between National, Council, District and Troop, because admittedly this sorely needs help. As was the case in the situation of the Unit Web site guidelines.

Ed, FOG posted about it, and if memory serves, a link was provided to it. Now, if a document came be found and it could as FOG found it, and a link could be provided, its not really all that secret. One could make a very good argument that it should be publicized much better,(and it should have been) but poor publicity is not the same as keeping it a secret. Do you have a specific example to share? SR540Beaver, do you mean the one for use during the Summer Solstice or Autumnal Equinox as the Vernal Equinox season has just passed? (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Sorry John in KC, offering advice on a practice that is against standard BSA policy does no one any good. SPL15 has been told before that the practice of youth run Board of Reviews is not appropriate. To ask an opinion on a practice that is known to wrong is, well, just wrong. SPL15, you know I like you, but this is not right.

Dear Advanced Geriatric Excessively Adipose Disposed "Dude", Sorry if I confused you, lets put it this way, in the scenario you describe I think "Dude" means "in your wildest deams" BTW, the scene in "Dude, Where's my Car" where the two leads discover each has a tattoo on their back, received during a "Lost Night" is priceless and a modern rendition of Abbot and Costello's "Who's on first. The first guy has the word DUDE on his back and the other the word SWEET Dude, you have a tattoo on your back Wow, So do you What's mine say Dude Whats mine say Sweet No, I mean whats mine say Dude, No whats mine say Sweet Etc, Ect, Etc,

You know, Youth are not supposed to be doing Board of Reviews in the first place so this question is a moot point and continued discussion on what SPL_15 should do is superfluos. SPL_15, you cannot be responsible for the advancement of a scout, it is not you responsibility, right, privelige or any thing else I can think of. You are now an Eagle Scout, its time to uphold the BSA or quit calling yourself a Boy Scout.

"... For example, if I said, "Hey, I have a date with Heather Locklear!" my buds might respond with "Dude!" " I think in this case FOG, "Dude" means "Just what have you been smoking and where can I get some?"

Except that the Committee can't fire the Scoutmaster, only COR can. The Committee can talk about it, resolve to communicate to the COR, but they can't fire the scoutmaster. They can make life so unbearable she leaves, but running her off and "firing" her are not the same. I would like to know more specifics of how she is not a good leader. A few years back a few older boys in the troop wrote a letter to the Committee asking the present Scoutmaster be "fired" "stepdown" whatever. Seems he was berating them alot. Actually, I know for a fact he was. The scouts who wrote the letter wanted to go on campouts to hang out away from mom and dad and just chill. The scoutmaster expected them to perform the duties they were elected to, such as Senior Patrol Leader and Patrol Leader. The boys thought telling other people what to do once was enough and if it didnt get done, well, its wasnt their fault, they did their job. I tried talking to these two guys, I explained its not known as "the 7th Calvary's Last Stand" but Custer's Last Stand. The French Army didnt meet its Waterloo, Napoleon did. The fact leadership includes responsibility never did register. And the scoutmaster did a lot of "leadership counseling" the boys thought they were being yelled at, the scoutmaster thought of it as pointing out where they could have done a better job. Sometimes it does depend on whose ox is being gored. SO, just because the older scouts dont like the scoutmaster its not an automatic "gotta get rid of the scoutmaster" If they leave, it may not be such a loss. What is the nature of the complaint, why dont they like her, specifics are needed. What exactly are they taking about?

I have been following this thread but haven't commented until now because I wasn't sure how I felt or what all the factors are and what Philmont itself has in the way of this issue. To be sure I understand, I want to restate the facts as they have been explained to be sure I understand. You (Mike F) are planning a Trek to Philmont and you have a Troop member who in your words "He has multiple diagnosed psychiatric disorders that severely affect his ability to relate to others - especially authority figures. I pray daily for some breakthrough that will give him some more effective coping skills" and has struggled on training events yet the parents insist he be included? So, the boy has physical and mental issues that concern you. The mental issues have been diagnosed by medical specialists in the appropriate fields I take it (which could be dangerous I know) and you have personally witnessed his physical shortcommings. I can identify with the parents wanting their boy included, but do they know his attendance is not desired because of concern for his and others safety and not because he is "diagnosed"? (I didnt know how else to put it) I think unless you or some other adult member is a trained psychiatric/counselor to force the group to take him is a pretty "cheeky" move. Its fun to speak in ignorance ( as you can tell I have a lot of fun) but would Philmont allow the father or some other guardian along on the trek to watch over only that boy and be responsible for him? I have no idea if thats possible, but if the family wants the scout to go, they already know he is not "like the other boys" and may have to pay someone to shepherd the boy. It would be a great uplifitng event if this trek to Philmont is the great brealthrough you are looking for in terms of coping skills, something that would be of value for his lifetime. On the other hand, if his presence makes the whole trip a living nightmare, well thats another matter. I pray for the former, but the latter may also occur and having the "shepherd" would be the insurance. At least that way if the boy has to come home early, the shepherd leaves not one of the other adults. Or I could be all wet, which is fine as I need a bath... PS Added thought, If the scout has as many issues as has been stated, he must be in special educational classes. Has anyone talked to his teachers to get their opinion of such an experience or if they would feel comfortable with this scout on such a trip? Mom and Dad might take to listening to people who teach their son daily as opposed to the adults who are just "scouts" (as wrong as that might be I must add)(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Ed, I know you and FOG enjoy casting slings and arrows at Bob White, but try to limit your insults to factual matters. On 4/4/04 at 3:48:04 (kinda lyrical, aint it?) Bob White posted "Where I was mistaken was that requirements within the badge could be altered" So, your statement: "Mr. White never apologizes because he (in his mind) is never wrong!" is not accurate as he admitted he was wrong. As you carry out your vendetta against all things Bob White, please do it accurately

There is an old saying about how things are viewed all depends "on whose ox is being gored". Well, after perusing todays (April 7th) postings I noticed some attempts at what was hopefully attempts at humor at various religions expense. I felt one targeted at mine's particularly offensive and was ready to blast the perp when I rmembered my "newt" comment and thought, "Dang you idiot, you did the same thing". That being said, I apologize to all who may have been or will be offended by my Spiral Scouts comment, I was channeling Monty Python, but in retrospect it is as offensive as any irreligious comment made on the forum. Again, I apologize for my comment

The Roman Catholic Boy Scout Relgious Award is the "Ad Altari Dei" (To the Altar of God, for the Latin impaired), another award for the older scout or Venturer (both male and female) is the Pope Pius XXII.

There's a calm surrender To the rush of day When the heat of the rolling world Can be turned away An enchanted moment And it sees me through It's enough for this restless warrior Just to be with you (Chorus) And can you feel the love tonight? It is where we are It's enough for this wide-eyed wanderer That we got this far And can you feel the love tonight How it's laid to rest? It's enough to make kings and vagabonds Believe the very best There's a time for everyone If they only learn That the twisting kaleidoscope Moves us all in turn There's a rhyme and reason To the wild outdoors When the heart of this star-crossed voyager Beats in time with yours (Chorus) And can you feel the love tonight? It is where we are It's enough for this wide-eyed wanderer That we got this far And can you feel the love tonight How it's laid to rest? It's enough to make kings and vagabonds Believe the very best It's enough to make kings and vagabonds Believe the very best

Please explain this policy that "makes" you take miscreants along when you dont want them?

Last time I tangled with the Spiral Scouts, I got changed into a newt!

Best use of the blank patrol patch I saw was for the Stealth Patrol, the yell was an open mouth with no sound and the flag was a regular scout stave with a 2 foot sheet of saran wrap stappled to it

Ed, I took the "new" Wood Badge, as I have comemnted before I am Bear, and a Good "Ol' Bear" but I digress. Anyway, from very early Friday morning of the first weekend I was with brer Bears, We had a campsite to ourselves, the 4 brother bears and big momma bear as well. As luck would have it, we all had our own tents. We rotated Patrol Leader duties daily and had a duty roster. During didactic sessions we always sat together a the same place dubbed the Bear den and during outdoor activities we were always a "team" and were together. We planned our Patrol Presentation during 2 patrol meetings during the two weeks between campouts and on the second week end we camped away from the other patrols and cooked our meals. We had a patrol flag and call ::stand at attention, then slide head off to the side while saying call:: Oh Bother ! At my beading ceremony 2 of my brer Bears were there. When we assembled in Gilwell whether it was for the opening, Colors, or the closing ceremony we always were in patrols and reported as such. I do not know where or how you were lead to beleive that the patrol method is not emphasized in the new Wood Badge, but who ever told you that is flat out wrong

On Sunday, 4/4/2004: 3:48:04 PM in the thread titled Problems with Charter Organization Bob White posted the following: Since I do not have my copy of the Advancement Policies at this time I called the person I lent that to and found I was in wrong on a portion of what I shared. Where I was mistaken was that requirements within the badge could be altered. What happens is an alternate merit badge is approved by the national advancement committee. The conditions for this are outlined in the Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures manual. So, Mr White admits he was wrong, can we move on?

Do Unitarians refuse to charter Boy Scout units or does the BSA choose not to charter units to those congregations?

si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

Ok, I know this is not scouting related, well, maybe it is if you factor in fuel costs of trips, but I digress. I have an politco-economics question and since I know of no other erudite group as august as this, I have a question. I understand gas prices are going up due to increased acquisition and refining costs. But then oil companies are also reporting increased profits, how does that happen? I understand that oil company revenues would be up, but if costs are up as well, how can profits be up as well? Just as an example, if it costs one dollar to acquire and refine and deliver a gallon of gas, I can see the oil companies charging $1.15, effectively making 15 percent on their investment. So if factors change and it now takes two dollars to refine and acquire and deliver gas, is it practical to charge $2.30 a gallon to keep the same 15 percent return on investment? Could the oil companies be charged as price gouging? why not charge $2.15, they are making the same amount per gallon. If the argument is with higher prices gas purchases go down so the price needs to be higher to maintain the same profits, I can see that, but at the same time, oil companies profits are up, why isn't this a bigger issue in the public? Am I missing something?

Actually your location may help, what about a Bivy sac with mosquito netting? would being able to see out of the netting help?

The Etiquette Dinner is a hold over from when I was a scout. Once a year or so the Crew goes to a gourmet restaurant that is run by the local community college food service program. They have package deal where they will explain how a lady and gentleman act in a fine restaurant. Which fork to use, how to converse with people you dont know, that sort of thing. The youth are getting older (is that an oxymoron?) and as they prepare for weddings, proms, and more than just eating a burger at a fast food joint, they learn a cultured approach to dining. We are very much a co-ed crew. I am not sure if you know this, but the redoubtable Outdoor Thinker and Campfire Fairy are both members of the crew, female and officers on the COuncil Youth Council. Outdoot Thinker was the scoutcraft director at our Council's summercamp. Well, Outdoor Thinker was a little skeptical about the Cabela s thing although she went, and Campfire Fairy just plain refused to go to the store of Camping and Death. But, she stayed home and the members that wanted to go, went. We just spare her the details. Not everyone has to love every activity. Not every member can make every outing. We have our urban adventure tour, we park in Hoboken, New Jersey and take the fairy to Manhattan and wander the city (during daylight, we havent graduated to extreme adventure as yet)then take the sub back to Hoboken under the river. We have done murder mystery dinners, both ones we wrote and commcerical ones and served as staff for a council Scoutreach week end. We have a week end of shore fishing planned just south of Atlantic City this spring. When people say what is your specialty, we say we seek adventure in life, its not the destination its the journey.

Actually the term altar boy is archaic in the Roman Catholic Church. Now that Servers may be female or male (watch out OA guys)I do think Acolyte is a more fitting term and I have heard it used. But then I am from an era where the Altar boys such as I learned our prayers in latin and recited them proudly if not dreamily at 6:30 am mass on a weekday during the summer. BTW I had to walk uphill 3 miles both directions in a blizzard to get the church as well.