OldGreyEagle

Geez Ed, I guess I can't buy a vowel from you. I dont see how just being registered would fulfill any of the rank requirements,requirements we both agree cant be added to of subtracted from. Nor do I think you can satisfactorily fulfill a postion of responsibility by just being registered.

Ed, where have I ever said a scout shouldnt participate in troop activities?

and where did you see me say a scout didnt have to actively participate?

I am an NRA Instructor in Rifle, Muzzleloader and Shotgun, to announce my bias right off. I wonder if the American people would be OK with having to register with the police what Church they attend. If you wanted to get into a chuch, you would have to present your photo ID identifying you as a "church goer". Now, you can go to any church you want, there is no repercussions because you or are not a "chuch goer" you just have to be registered to go to church.

So, once again we have tripped upon the concept of how is the term "active" to be defined in the context of the Boy Scout program. Here is my take: I do not think Troops can set attendance levels to measure how "active" a scout is. Many point to the fact since the BSA doesnt define active for a boy scout, the troop is free to so, but ponder this: Say in a single District there are 20 Troops, each with a different definition of "active". In Troop 1, you must attend 75% meetings and outings, in Troop 2, you must attend 75% meetings and 50% outings, in Troop 3, its 50% meetings and outings and in Troop 4, wait, you get the idea. So, when you get an Eagle from each of these 20 troops, they are all Eagles, all on the rolls in Irving as an Eagle regardless of how a Troop measured the activity. Even the Eagle from a troop that didn't have an attendance policy other than the activity level mentioned in the requirments, be active in patrol, troop for 6 months. What do you tell a scout in Troop 1, that he cant me an Eagle because he didnt meet the attendance policies of the troop, but had he been in Troop 2 or 3 that wouldnt be a problem? Nest Argument: Now, I know we have a few Sea Scouts kicking around out there, and they can verify this. To reach the Ordinary rank, the youth must attend at least 75 percent of your ship's meetings and special activities for six months, to reach the Able rank, the youth must Attend at least 75 percent of your ship meetings and special activities for one year. and to reach the Quartermaster rank the youth must Attend at least 75 percent of your ship meetings and special activities for 18 months. So, when someone says the BSA doesn't define active, that isnt altogether true, the BSA does indeed define active when referring to Sea Scouts. It sets the attendance criteria and time span per rank. In the Boy Scout program it does not give any mention of perentage of meetings or activities to attend. If BSA thought a certain percentage of outings was crucial to advancement in Boy Scouts, they would have set a percentage just as they did in Sea Scouts. And nowhere in any BSA publications soes it say a Troop may define "active" Now, do I think for a second some leader of a troop with a hard and fast percentage policy will read this, slap his forehead and have an epiphany thinking his/her troop is wrong? Not at all, I am aiming for people who havent made up their mind. To let them think about what I have presented.

::heavy sigh:: Here we go again, and please tune into the new topic, what is "active"

The only standard for being "active" is being registered in a troop. Has nothing to do with meeting attendance, outing attendance, wearing the unform or how loud he sings for lost items . I agree he has 1.5 months left to complete his POR, and during that time, he will be "active" in the troop, because be will have to be to fulfill the requirment. The requirments are to be active for 6 months, the same as the POR time length, I dont see how you can fulfill the POR without being active.

requiring scouts to wear the uniform is not what is meant by following the uniform method, but I am sure you knew that

So, when did you ever stray from the Methods and Aims to keep the best interest of the youth at heart? Has it ever happened or are you saying your regard for the youth would supplant the Aims and Methods, but is hasnt happened yet?

Ed, I have missed your circumelocution. So, if you have the best interests of the scouts at heart, its ok not to follow the methods? I don't see what you mean as yet.

English is a funny animal, lending itself to colourfull language and I am sure we all have plenty of materiale on this subject. Many have referred to me as OldGrayEagle, and I just pity them

I always thought the conventional wisdom was that repubicans run to the right to get nominated while democrats run to the left to get nominated, then once nominated, both run back to the middle. I remember the flap caused when President Clinton enacted his "don't ask, don't tell" policy in the military. The gays were indignant because he "promised" that military personnel could be "openly gay" and the dont ask dont tell policy fell well short of it. Well, I thought at the time, what could the gays do? Run over to the republicans for solace? More recently, Bush has said he wanted a conservative for the Supreme Court. Well, the choice of Harriet Miers wasn't conservative enough, or maybe it was, we will never know. But say Bush nominated Miers before his re-election. What would the far right do? Vote for John Kerry in protest? Edited Part Brent, you are forgetting that while the BSA teaches archery and rifle marksmanship, Boy Scouts are prohibited from shooting at any target resembling an animate object. No human or animal representations are allowed. I have heard this policy as "too left, politically correct leaning" for many tastes. The banning of various hazing rituals, such as the spining cub scout while pinning on the bobcat pin is decried as again, to left leaning touchy feely polically correct. The personal freedom of scouters to smoke in front of the youth has been prohibited as well as consumption of adult beverages. These again are pretty leftist principals to me, what ever happened to individual liberties? The following beleif systems all have BSA recognized medal programs Baha'i, Buddhist, Hindu, Islamic, Meher Baba, and Zoroastrian. Hardly groups that are lumped in with conservatism. Why not just say the BSA is a group with all elements of American Society? (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Or maybe just a sash for meritbadges, ranks and POR patches so we can be just like the girl scouts, not that there is anything wrong with that

As I understand it, the reason we have a bicameral legislature is because the more populous states wanted to base representation on population. The less populated states wanted to be sure they weren't trampled by the more populous states, so a compromise (forgive the use of the dirty word) was reached. We have the Senate and House of Representatives. I think the system works rather well. At least I have never heard it decried because it was a compromise. Keeping the three branches of goverment equal through the system of checks and balances was all one big compromise, and one with genius at that. If more people would learn to compromise, wars wouldnt happen, but since there are extremists, they are necessary. Just to be sure I am not misunderstood, I understand that there are reasons why wars must occur and would much rather live in the country that has the number one military rather than number two.

A request was made for thoughts, and I posted mine

its during discussions like this I am reminded of the the following quote "The streets of our country are in turmoil. The universities are filled with students rebelling and rioting. Communists are seeking to destroy our country. Russia is threatening us with her might and the republic is in danger. Yes, danger from within and without. We need law and order."

I am in the camp of running the Troop the way the BSA says in its publications/ The boys elect the SPL. That being said, I dont think boy led has to mean boy led into the ground. Scouts running for SPL should be aware of the responsibilities of the position. After election, and before the next Troop meeting the Scoutmaster should go over the job responsibilities with the scout. The expectation of the job layed out and the scout told who his resources are when he needs help. If the scout falters, the SM or adult asigned to mentor the SPL/ASPL or PLC steps in to provide support. If the SPL doesnt fulfill the responsibilities of the job, as layed out by the scoutmaster and does not change behavior after counseling, he gets fired and does not get credit for a POR. Troop holds a special election to complete the term. Actions, or perhaps inactions have consequences. Now, I would hope the "firing" of an SPL would be rare, but to say that the kids elected a good time Charley and he ruined the troop, is a big fat cop out The adults abdicated responsibility rather then hold the SPL to his duties, which were explained to him the week of his election. Its not the job of the adults to select, screen or otherwise coronate troop leadership. It is the job of the adults to train the youth leadership and to hold those youth responsible for their obligations.

In the BSA publication "Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures" it states: "Scout Spirit is defined as living the Scout Oath (Promise) and Scout Law in a Scout's everyday life." Is this the Scout Spirit you speak of?

I just saw this ad on TV and thought it appropriate. We are taking about the cost of scouting and how much is too much et al and Tiger Schulman Karate is running a special in our area for $99 a kid gets 6 weeks of Karate lessons and a uniform, like its such a deal. One testimony is that a child was able to overcome ADD because of Karate, I didnt know ADD could be cured with 6 weeks of anything, much less franchised karate lessons. Just a comparison

Least we forget Rosa Parks

I can hear the catcalls already, but if you are talking about being influential in the area of women's fashion's, you can't dismiss the effect of Britney Federline nee Spears Not all influences are positive, then again, it depends on ones perspective, don't it?

Jimmy Carter did more as an Ex-President with his Habitat for Humanity work and his monitoring of foreign elections than any ex-president in my life time. His comments on the current adminstration do detract from his legacy. Jimmy didnt put the status of ex-president on the auction block as Reagan

In the BSA publication "Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures" it states: "Scout Spirit is defined as living the Scout Oath (Promise) and Scout Law in a Scout's everyday life."

I havent done this for awhile, so here goes. Lets say too eager Webelos enter a Troop on the same day, they bridge at the same Blue and Gold Banquet from the same Pack. They get put in the same new scout patrol. They are both 11 when they join the Troop. Well Scout Andy, is a really go getter, learns his knots, is on every outing and makes First Class in 12 months. Scout Buddy is a little more laid back in his approach to advancement. He takes 2 years to make First Class. Meanwhile, Scout Andy is doing a marvelous job as a Troop Guide and moves to Star Rank, he is now 13 years old. The same age as Scout Buddy, who is just becomming First Class. Scout Andy is a great Patrol Leader and along the way becomes the SPL for six months. Andy loves scouts, he goes on every event and gets his wish, on his 15th birthday, he has his Eagle Board of Review and 8 weeks later his Court of Honor and at age 15 and 8 weeks, Andy is never seen again, at least not in a scouting context. Buddy on the other hand takes a tad longer. He is 14 when he becomes Star, he did a good job as an instructor. At 16 he makes Life, he did his POR fine, he just didnt show up much afterwards. At age 17 and 6 months, after not being seen for almost 18 months he comes back and says he wants to work on Eagle. He has always fulfilled his Position of Responsibility, he just has gaps afterwards. The Troop allows him to work his project and get the last merit badges and when he is 17 years and 364 days old, his Eagle paperwork is turned into Council. In the dusty old archives in Irving, there is a file cabinet in which contains the name of all Eagles, are Andy and Buddy's name both there? Yes they are. Which was the better Eagle? The one who was Gung Ho until he made Eagle and then dropped out of sight or the guy who took his time, smelling the roses along the way? Please note, both were active in Troop and Patrol for the time specified for each rank and both satisfactory completed their Position of responsibilities

I would talk about how the FOS money helps the Council they live in. I would say I understood the people may feel "tapped" out, but this money benefits their kids and the local community