blw2

gotta say I like the idea, but some good reasons why not to do it have been presented. I'm not a big fan of the T-Shirt thing...... half the scout year is spent wearing the T-Shirts, so these rank patches and other awards that we are trying to encourage so much effort towards, get shown maybe a handful of times each year. No wonder the boys don't get really excited about any of the rank patches etc...! Even the T-Shirt gets covered up a lot as suggested, with either a sweatshirt or a jacket. I'm in Florida, so the Jacket has minimal use for us, but I have often thought of a jacket or something to display the temporary and other misc patches taht the boys collect. I know that's a different thread topic, but it does tie into the need for a jacket or something. I'm actually liking the original poster's suggestion.... perhaps a jacket, sweatshirt, shirt jacket depending on climate and your location.... instead of a pack t-shirt! Meant for over uniform wear and it could double as a place for the patch collection.

I agree with you mostly, but your examples cross the grey line even for adults. Depending on context of course..... but call a fat guy " Tiny" might be ok. Call him "big guy" or whatever ditto.... but you don't call him fat in almost any circle! Youre right about the nut of it I think..... "Scouting is supposed to be about higher ideals"

It's a cultural thing AND a guy thing I think. This is one area that my wife has almost had success in changing me. In many regions and cultures..... the south where I'm from and in blue collar environments especially.... and I've also noticed it in groups of "sports guys", ribbing and insults are taken as compliments. You just don't compliment a guy or tell them that you like them...... just not socially acceptable. Calling him a litle guy is really a term of endearment! There is of course a line not to cross, but its grey.... I think what's described here in this thread likely falls into that category. No harm is intended, or usually taken.... But for some (like my wife) they don't get it. They get offended if its directed at them, or want to stand up for the bullied guy underdog if it's directed at someone else. Over the years, i have come to realize that the line not to cross is just far too grey for some folks to see, so the better practice is to not do it. I do catch myself all the time doing it though..... it's just a social situation thing.

I think that you are justified in stressing or being hurt about this..... but I would advise you to try and not give these people the power to upset you. Beyond the effort in trying to take away something form this, It's just not worth it to be upset. Maybe teh take away is some nugget on how you might run a better program...... or maybe the take away is just simply how not to act. Regardless, I would suggest to continue to be cordial to this boy and parents, and continue to make them welcome if they choose to come back. Re. handing out the Bear patches. Not sure if this is the best advice, but for what it's worth ..... given what you have written, i think I would just pass the awards out to the other boys..... not even mention it. Let the CM handle it in whatever way he sees fit. The only other option I can imagine, is to just hand the boy the award just like all the other boys, and forget it. Another thought. Does you pack do attendance awards? If not, this might be a good time to start! I'm picturing an award for perfect attendance another one for good but partial attendance and no award for lack of attendance. After all, isn't the secondary purpose of the perfect attendance award to encourage attendance?

I for one disagree with Cambridge skip and those of you that are in agreement, And i think that AZMike brings up some potentially big issues that could be REAL problems. Parent hang-up, boy hang-up. Whatever.... it'll be a problem. Well written AZMike!

I've toyed with suggesting something like this for our pack. I like the idea of a dad's race or an unlimited rules race.... my though being it may cut down on the over the top dad designs in the boys race and take that down to what I think it was meant to be - boy made cars with help from dad, not the other way around. the more I think of it though, it's a lot of work to put on a race and opening it up to much more just drags out the work and day even more so I don't think my committee would go for it. This year we did have one sister that brought a car.... rather nice one too. I think they ran a sibling race at their old pack. I had a car that my son & I had thrown together the morning of race from the bottom of the block we used from his car. It had the slots in the bottom. I drilled outthe slots by hand, stuck some wheels in it, and trimmed a fishing sinker untill it was 5 ounces. It was our 10 minute car & I had brought it as a backup in case my son's car crashed or something. Anyway, we ran that car against little sister after the pack race was done.

This is a spin off from a thread about troops. Made me curious what other packs do in the summer. Regular meeting schedule, limited meetings, nothing, or something else?

I echo what others have said, but also add that there is a grey line someplace where the lads need to be pushed a little.....er encouraged. IMO, you can't take him to a meeting or two, then if he didn't have fun and therefore didn't like it, just let him quit. Nobody is going to like every aspect of anything. Even adults, but especially a little kid. They need to be introduced to things, AND encouraged along the path. My oldest is only 7, well almost 8......I'm still tring to figure out where that line is. My bet is you wont have any problems fulfiling YOUR goal to be a scouter. Sons like to be like dad.

I camped at a county park once, fires were only allowed in above ground fire pits. Of course they would rent you one..... So at check in, I gladly paid the few dollars so we could have a camp fire. They delivered it to the site later...... IT WAS A WASHING MACHINE TUB! You know the thing inside a close washer with all the holes in the side. It came complete with a couple cionder blocks to set it on! Boy, I just had to laugh out loud. My point is, take the tractor wheel idea and run with it to a junk yard. They'll probably find somehing you could bury. And maybe even get a donation or a cheap price if they mention what they are doing it for. Or visit a local mom&pop type welding shop if you have any around.... Or another idea.... how about a lanscape stone yard, get a few nice rocks! Unless you live in rocky terrain, in which case they could find some layiing about someplace.....

I didn't mean to imply that we should not be friendly, courteous, or kind to everyone.... but we should be reverent as well.

I didn't mean to imply that we should not be friendly, courteous, or kind to everyone.... but we should be reverent as well. What I mean packsaddle, is that Boy Scout used to mean something, and still does.... call it Duddly Do Right, Call it whatever you want. But as soon as the BSA bows to the pressures of this issue, it means far less. IMO, Scouting should not be teaching boys about this issue at all, from either perspective. This issue has no place at all in a youth program. So, why are we letting it have a place?

I sortof feel that a lot of you are missing a point here. To me, it's not really about how it might affect my unit, my personal experience, or my son't experience..... well yes it is to a lesser degree, but there is something bigger. It's a case of watering down the moral experience. A case of dilution.

Well said, okccal

ghjimcommented #20.1 Yesterday, 01:25 PM Editing a comment Like other posters on this forum, I am having a difficult time understanding the views of the people against the local option. It would seem that the fact that they can run their troop the way they want ought to satisfy them (everyone). But somehow their world view requires that everybody be forced to subscribe to their value system. This is something about conservative thought/philosophy that has puzzled me ever since childhood. ..................................................................................................................................................................................................................... Just one of many reasons, but the biggest question that comes to my mind at this moment, is how then do the local units differentiate? Should the gay friendly unit now advertise as such? Should the heterosexual only unit advertise their stance? That in itself is counter to what I believe scouting is and should be. I personally don't want this issue of "orientation" even mentioned to the boys. It is, plain and simple, inappropriate and out of place in an audience of kids!

As a cub scout dad and scouter, I have a question. It's not exactly on track but I hope it relates well enough to add to the discussion..... I think it may help to look at the issue from a different angle. In a boy lead troop as I have see described, what the blazes to the adult leaders even do? As someone described above, the adults couldn't even unlock the doors or the trailer because that was the scout's job. So, what does a SM & ASM really even do?.... sit back and watch?..... answer questions if asked?.... take the boys to the hospital after an incident?.... I'm hopeful this is helpful to the original poster.... instead of asking what do you need to do for the boys or whatever, or what do the boys need to do?.... the better question to ask may be "what should I as the adult leader NOT be doing?" My personal reason for asking is for a better understanding of my future in scouting..... and also, i believe that our pack may be a little too adult focused. I'm thinking a little bit more boy envolvement may be good at our stage of the game, too.

On the positive, evertime I log in I'm seeing something new.... Maybe I'm just missing stuff, but it looks liek you are making improvements and getting it squared away! Thanks

AZMike, very interesting points. I especially align with the old fashioned thing. I am sort of drawn to the old fashioned and simple things. I don't really live that way, but I sort of long for the simpleness of them. You said old-fashioned people are less common..... maybe. But maybe the definition of old-fashioned has changed. To us, it frontier skills, lashings, cast iron, or what have you..... but old fashioned to our younger generation just might be 8-bit computer games or "old" technology. To these people, our old-fashioned may just be plain old ancient

I like the change. It looks nice. A few things. 1) I have posted in this and other strings before, but do not see my post in the thread. Some sort of glitch. 2) My big "want" is to be able to log in and quickly skim through the thread titles that I have not read, or that have new postes in them since I have marked everything as read. With that in mind... a) What exactly is the link" Click Here to view active topics since your last visit (last 24 hours and before) >>" doing for me? Looking at 24 hour old posts, or looking at posts since my last visit? b) I see no way to "mark all threads as read". c) I don't like that this lonk sends me to a page that makes me read the entire first post of the tread. i would much rather just see the title, then if I'm interested, i could click in. Also would be nice if clicking into said thread would take me straight to the first "un-read" post. 3) another forum that I frequent, for non scouting stuff.... gives the option to view a list of the trheads with new posts in them, that I have previosly posted in. Sort of liek a favorites hit list that works out well. First I'll hit that list, then if time permits I'll click on the "new posts since my last login'.... or the other choice is "all unread posts". Again, these all link to a list of the thread titles, not to the post themselves.

Just had our race yesterday My sone won the den race, but didn't place in the finals...... He wasn't being a sore looser at all in this discussion, but in talking about the day he was disapointed that he didn't get a trophy..... then I found myself having to explain that he actually won. The guys that got the trophy won a second round of races, but the district only takes the winners form each den, not the finals..... Personally, I'd rather have the medal than the trophy, but I'm not looking at it as a 7 year old..... So, in hind sight I find myself asking two questions: Why don't we give cheap trophies to the den placers? Why do we even bother with the finals race? Now I'm thinking it would be as good or even better to award trophies based on the den races, and then just show the overall pack rankings based on the den numbers. Maybe bigger trophies for those top three..... We could have gone home an hour earlier with the same result!

We've had a back burner discussion going on this exact issue. We have a trailer and use it when we go camping to bring the coolers, grilles, plates, and all sorts of misc stuff. We have a small PA system, the derby track, and maybe a few other things taht just don't need to go camping every time. We have been intending to ask the church for a location on property someplace for a small storage shed. It wouldn't have to be very big...... I'm thinking even something like this. http://www.samsclub.com/sams/52-cu-ft-rubbermaid-large-vertical-shed/198425.ip?refcd=GL05251200010017&pid=_CSE_Google_PLA_Grills-&-Outdoor-Hardware&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=128619S Might be a tad too small, but something close maybe.

I thought for sure this was the thread I posted in about a month ago...... must have been another thread but no I can't find it. Anyway, I was trying to revive and old thread about sewn on name tags. We were on a trip recently, and there was a BS troop there with sewn on name tags for each boy and leader. They were simple black woven strips with teh fleur and 1st & last name in white stitching. Maybe 1/2inch wide (or 5/8in at the most), with maybe 1/4in or 3/8in high lettering. I thougt it looked classy. Not big like military style. I asked a leader for the source..... didn't know, they were from an area with an Army base and someone had a local contact. I know it's not "official BSA" but it looked nice, IMO, and very uniform. I ordered an official magnetic one form the scout store. An "official pin on tag" came in. Mis ordered....., I have never worn it. Don't want to be stabbed. Replaced with and Official magnetic one form teh scout store. Wore it to maybe 2 or 3 meetings..... and it is lost. I have no idea what I brushed against to knock it off.... but it was not money well spent. And why do we need tags...... Nobady in our pack has historicly wore them, but I'm in a fairly large pack. There are always parents and even boys in the older dens that I don't know very well or at all..... and there are new families coming into the younger dens that I also don't know. Name tags are great I think for leaders, to help people learn your name. Does anyone have an online source for such a thing?

Our pack has been giving those that earned it one of those store bought arrow of light plaques, with the arrow hanging below. That's all I have seen form the Tiger and Wolf Den perspective..... And each year, the outgoing WEBLOS2 den has given a gift to the pack..... a nice portable grille and the like.... I think that the parents have chipped in.... & I think there was also something given to the W2 den leader from the parents of the den.

we typically do medals for den 1st, 2nd, and 3rd trophies for pack final races 1st, 2nd, and 3rd and a few other various token awards for best use of accessories, most creative, and maybe one other category taht is slipping my mind......