blw2

I don't care for the chemistry focus as mentioned before.... Filling balloons and setting them up would get old after about 20 minutes.... but as for science relating to the range..... It's a good opportunity to teach a basic physics concept of ballistic trajectory. I could see a teaching station say before they go through safety orientation, that teaches them about trajectory. Some way to demonstrate that an object thrown horizontally will hit the ground at the same time as something that is dropped. Maybe a rig hanging from a tree that drops two balls simultaneously, one drops straight and the other falls on a ramp to give it horizontal direction????

agreed. I'm in full uniform down to the socks. Just trying to set a good example to my son. If you're gonna do something, do it! Don't go half way. I understand that it might be a money thing for some, but I don't think that's the case most of the time. The only other 'excuse' I can imagine that I might be ok with is bad fit..... I understand that for some of us may not be very comfortable in ill fitting clothes..... how's that for pc?

I do have some. Is there a way to post pictures on this forum?

To a degree...... yes. Sometimes I have to resist the urge to roll my eyes when facing a fellow scouter with a 2ft x 2ft tangle of knot awards. .....But then I think, if they are earned why not wear them? I think for some it does offer a bit of encouragement, and a bit of payback in terms of bragging rights for all of the hours of volunteer work they have obviously done.

A troop that a lot of our boys cross to brings a rope bridge to B&G. After the ceremony and close of the meeting, the otherboys are allowed to go across just for fun. I let my son do it when he was a tiger last year. This year I told him no. Even though the other boys were doing it, I think it will be much more special to him when "crosses" it for real. Now that I'm active on the committee, I'll likely bring this up next year when planning for the B&G, and strongly suggest that we not let the other boys play on it.....

My son's Tiger den started out at 14. I wouldn't classify our leader then as weak for sure, but she wasn't strong either. Me and another dad pitched in and helped wherever we could. We made it work. Would have even been better had she understood the concept of letting a boy and Tiger Parent run each meeting. She did it all, even after I stepped into the ADL role..... She just couldn't let go I guess. Most meetings were only around 10 boys just due to conflicts or whatever. We lost a couple from moves out of the area, and a couple to disinterest or whatever.... Wolf year was down to 10 active members. The DL was one of the move-aways, and the new DL has done very well keeping it fun..... maybe even more so. So, my point.... like others have written, I wouldn't think you'd need to split it unless you just can't get any ADL's, but you're getting close I guess. Interesting question though. Our pack has only one den per grade, so I'm interesting how even larger packs handle the new boy assignments into dens..... or splits....

This brings up a side question that I have wondered about..... not directly related to the OP's question, but still related to the discussion. There is no such thing as WEBELOS 2. I understand that, although my pack, and I suppose many packs, have a WEBELOS 2 den. I get that. But then shouldn't it be that once the boys transition to WEBELOS, they just move to the one and only WEBELOS den, that also includes the older boys that are further along..... They would of course be working on different things, but sort of like the different patrols in a troop. Do any packs operate this way? Seems like this would be a good preparation to the troop structure, and allow opportunities for the older boys to lead the younger boys a bit. Get a taste of it before moving to a BS troop.

tough issues, maybe.... but as a dad of one cub scout age boy and two younger girls that are involved in almost everything their big brother is doing with scouts anyway, I think it would be a good idea to just let them in. I imagine girl dens and boy dens under one pack. Gives some needed separation, but also keeps together for the family outings etc....

My CM and I evaluated a bunch of these options + some more..... We ended up using a group email solution (emaildodo.com) tied to our own pack domain. We have email addresses set up for the parents, the committee, and each den. I have even set up temporary groups for all of those going on a particular trip. and for my den I have been using the free trax spreadsheet templates. The group email is helpful, but honestly I can't say that the spreadsheet is all that valuable. It's hard to get the data from the parents (even for the leader's kid) to enter it, and even then there is little to now value in having it. It would be just as good to have a parent give you a list of what the boy has earned at the appropriate time before a pack meeting..... make a shopping list...... and just buy the stuff. half the time all I can get is "he completed his wolf".... but I cant enter which of the optional achievements he did. They wont answer it..... If they wont do something as easy as tell me so I can enter it, there's no way they would enter it themselves! We don't currently do any sort of attendance award, so there hasn't proven to be much value even in the attendance I strive to take. I think I'm going to stop all tracking for my den for the Bear year, and then pick it back up for WEBLOS when it is no longer up to the parents' sign off.

How many of you run a grand champion race after the den races? Our pack (and district) run the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd boys form each Den all together in a fresh set of heats as a "Grand Champion" race. Since all of the racers in the grand champion race will go onto district anyway.... AND since the software will report the overall Pack standings in a list of all dens / all boys so we can see the overall winners for the pack for bragging purposes..... I am failing to see the point of the Grand Champion race. I proposed to our CM and will likely propose to the committee that we skip the grand champion race. It may be a way to make more time available for a family race, or some of the other ideas mentioned in this thread.

Thanks Scoutnut. Good advice. Unfortunately I have already pursued most of it. Our district has been without a training chair. Only recently at a round table I learned that we have a person that has stepped up. In the interim, I had been in contact with my DE and even others at council re. training.... I have attended roundtables, though not as many as I'd like due to wife's work schedule. As i mentioned, back when I was actively searching for training I did scour all neighboring districts calendars too. I did run into the issue you mentioned of poor registration for courses leading to cancelations. I chalked it up to a few points.... at the time, the trining chair was a person volunteering as a stand in, not full time effort in the position, so there was a lack of advertising about the classes. Also, there wasn't classes offered at convenient times, but I was bent on going if I could swing it...... again I chalked it up to volunteer limitations..... Oh well, hopefully things will improve for us novice Scouters grasping for strong mentors......

Scoutnut, I'm sorry if I pushed a button. Didn't mean to. Thing is, I see a lot of needs from my perspective. Huge room for improvement on the unit level, district level, and council level. I'm also rather new as a Scouter. I don't know the full extent of the DE's job description. Don't know the other proffesional paid positions at the council level either. Maybe your district and perspective is just different. You say things like "DE's are not trainers". That may be so, but what I am saying is maybe they should be. (Actually to be acurate, i am not saying that they should actually "Teach" every class. Maybe teach some, but more importantly facilitate. And what I mean by that is, plan, organize, email, pull materials together, reserve the facility, etc...) All I am trying to suggest is that we back away from the current model and way of thinking and look beyond! I just know that I see people with the full time job of scouting and getting paid to do it, that seem to be going around doing nothing but asking for money..... while I see volunteers working hard trying, but just not having sufficient time and resources to really do a good job. Now I fully concede that there are likely things that these proffesionals are doing that is necessary and that are productive, I'm just not seeing a lot of it. What EXACTLY do I see as a need? I'll list some..... Training - The online training is good enough, but i could sure benefit from a presented class with group discussion. Other things such as BALOO are needed. I scoured the calendars of my district and neighboring districts for classes beginning last winter/spring and through the summer and into the start of the current school year. Some things weren't offered at all, and others very sledom and at times I couldn't make. None in my district by the way..... I gave up and stopped looking when our pack's program year geared up with school. Proram consistancy - Given the fact that training is infrequent or non-existant, I'll bet.... now I don't know this to be true.... but I'll bet that the experience a boy sees in my pack is different from the pack down the road. That one is likely different from the one up the road..... Quality - District run programs, such as our Cub O Ree, while good, could also greatly benefit form someone that could head them up as a job, rather than as something they are trying to do after dinner. Facilities - you mentioned a new well. How about a few bows for the archery belt loop! Everytime I've been to our scout camp for cub o ree and the like, the highlight is the BB and Archery Ranges. They have always been just a big mess. Again, getting soe folks together to plan and schedule that are not trying to dio it after dinner could go a long way in cleaning it up and making a better program. My thought in all of this is a happier boy that will go talk to his friends about this great thing that he's doing. Imagine the boy that is left handed. Goes to scout camp and gets to shoot a right handed bow at the archery range for exactly 4 minutes after having stood in line for an hour and sat through 15 minutes of safety briefing. What is taht kid going to tell his friends about the archery experience? Fix those problems. Now what is he going to tell his non-scout friends? What are they going to tell their parents? Recruitment goes up, revenues therefore increase. And yes, I would be willing to pay a few more dollars per year in registration.... but honestly, with all of the money that we have sent council through popcorn sales, I hardly see the need.

Looking at a list of recent topics. Not sure if it's complete or not. I suspect that it's not complete, but at least it's something! I post a comment in a thread, then all ability to go back to that list of current topics is lost. Thanks for trying, but this is getting tiresome.

And my hat is off to all those that volunteer..... especially those that go beyond their unit level and try to make the greater program work. But you are missing my point I think..... I'm NOT saying that everything currently done by volunteers should be done by proffesionals. I am also NOT saying that they need to hire more people. What I am saying.... and this is from my perspective only.... is that a big chunck of the current DE's job can go away. We don't need someone asking Scouters and the parents for money. What we do need is help to put on the program. This would free up time for the DE to do necessary things, that at least in my district, are absolutely NOT getting done..... and other things that are not getting done well. There would be a direct side benifit too, of a better and more consistant program that would ultimately increase membership and therefore revenue.... things that they are currently tasked with ...... Boiling it down..... We don't need him or her coming to our B&G to give a sales pitch about donating money to scouting. NOBODY wants to sit through that! What we do need is training for our leaders and facilitation for a more exciting program that will attract boys!

My point is that marketing/PR shouldn't really be needed. Well, PR I guess is, but marketing. No way. If we could get decent help they wouldn't need it! What we do need on a unit level, is some support and consistancy. Someone that has the time (ie full time job) to do all of that stuff that no volunteer has time for.... (unless maybe the volunteer is retired and their kids are grown... and they aren't heavily envolved in a unit level operation....)

I am actually of the opinion that their sole purpose in life should be 1) Training the volunteers...... or if they don't have the skill set for a particular class, facilitate training and help a volunteer teach. 2) Facilitate things like the round table meetings 3) Facilitate district wide events such as derby races, cub camps, etc... IMO, if they did these things, the programs would be more consistant, and potentially better. the result would be increased memebership and more $ I think most of us are spread too thin as it is. Volunteer scouters are busy enough putting on the unit level program..... so how can I expect to find a baloo training class that works with my schedule (I've been trying for a year and a half)....

Interesting thread for me. Like 92hatchattack, I am both ADL & ACM this year. I've not given knots much thought to date, but i suppose it would be good form me and the program, and good to show my son that I too am working towards achievements and awards. Too bad there aren't many options for me though..... Am I missing any others? Just at quick glance, it looks like the Socut Leaders Training award is the only knot we would be eligible for as "A" anything. In my short time with the pack, we haven't been all that active in pursuing things like Journey to Excellence award, which is one of the requirements. I'll have to look into it.....

I'm sorry for Hijacking this thread, but i can't figure out how to start a new thread or a spin off thread in this new system..... If an administrator wants to move this, feel free! Tagging on to this subject when to present rank patches, I've started wondering how packs actually present their awards. I recently read a power point like presentation outline I found online..... looked like it was used for a University of Scouting presentation. The author suggested when it comes to awards, "don't be a baggie pack". That's exactly what we are..... Each Den Leader will get up there with a bunch of baggies, each with a name on it... "Billy, come on up! Billy earned his Bear. Also, he has earned his Volley ball loop, map and compass loop, soccer loop, and astronomy pin." Then he hand over the baggie full of goodies to the boy. How do you do it in your packs? Our pack ranges from approx 32-40 cub scouts, so it would take too long to do some sort of pin on ceremony for each award..... But I woudl love some ideas to make it more fun!

Great topic and question! I'm a relatively new Scouter and have wondered the same thing. Our DE is new. He's young and full of energy, but so far I've reallyonly seen him visit a few meetings, such as B&G, where he hit up the group for money..... I actually think council is funny. Last year, I signed on half way through the year as an Assistant DL. This year I wear two hats Assistant DL and Assisitant CM. Several times, there have been folks from Council..... honestly I don't even know who they were, that visited meetings. At some point, they would be in a conversation with our CM or someone and so i would approach. Not wanting to interupt the conversation.... but some times because there was something needed from the CM, or sometimes I was just fishing for an opportunity to network. Every time, I got the feeling form the council person that they built up a wall..... to the point of stopping talking untill I left. Nothing from any of them but direct answers to direct questions. I have NEVER been made to feel welcomed by any of them and I'm actually put off by them! It's like I don't belong to the club! That is, everyone except our DE. He has been very approachable and friendly. Don't really understand what he "can do for me".... but still a good guy!

A little bit no yes My son likes to get it each month, but I'm noticing the ecitement has greatly fallen. I think he has started to realize that there's just not that much in it for his age......

Thinking about this, I have to wonder...... Gold has always in my mind been more valuable or "above" silver..... so could it be that the military rank insignia are traditionaly brass and silver, instead of gold and silver?

This thread almost sounds like I started it. As an ADL and this year an ACM, I had/have the same questions. I have retained my role as ADL just trying to help the den and the new DL that just stepped up a few months ago to replace someone who moved away..... I have been tasked with keeping up with achievement progress and the beads..... Personally, I dislike them. They don't look good on the uniform, the boys don't really get all that excited over them. I can't really tell that they are a motivator in any way. Honestly, i think I'll let them die a natural death and just not bring them up next year. I think the root of our pack's problem and the beads, as well as the rank patches, arrows, etc.... is that uniform wear is sporadic. The pack has traditionaly used the uniform "class" mantra. "Class A" for pack meeting, "Class B" for Den meetings and everything else..... so the only time any of this gets displayed is at pack meetings only a few times trhough the year. I have been working with my son's DL and we have made some progress getting the unifrm worn at meetings. As someone suggested above, I have been trying to "Walk Easy" with the change. I do think the rank patches, arrows, and other patches and belt loops should be worn and displayed, so that's my motivation for trying to suggest uniform wear. Actually, I'm of the opinion that the rank patches should be handed out at den meetings since they happen more frequently. We had on scout in our den this year that earned his Wolf months ago.... way ahead of teh other boys. We normally do the rank and award hand outs at pack meetings, but this scout missed a few pack evenst and meetings. B&G has become nothing but a ceremony for teh WEBLOS 2 cross over (that's another story all together), so we couldn't award him his rank then. We finally got it to him at the derby a couple weeks ago. Way too long of a wait!

Are you sure that morality is the ONLY reason? Why is morality "self-perceived"?