blw2

What is a "venture Patrol"? I thought Venturing was some sort of explorer outfit separate form Boy Scouts that has a different focus or interest, such as aviation explorers.... Seems like all together to much overlap and competition between the same interest. Like a company selling a product against itself.....

I sort of see it as a chicken or egg thing. Which came first? Maybe if the whole pack, leaders and all, went all out with the uniform.... not so much as to be rigid or military, but enough to instill an attitude of Doing Your Best.....Maybe it could as designed or intended, install a group identity and pride in self and accomplishment, that is missing. Therefore pack meetings would get better participation and the program will be better. Of course it wouldn't work without a fun meeting agenda, but hand in hand??? I think it stands a good chance. Whoever it was that started this uniform thing a long time ago sure thought so....... and it apparently worked for a long time before we started watering it down with "Class B's" and other self produced variations on the theme..... After all, to this day almost anyone out there, no matter what will be able to tell you what a Boy Scout or Cub Scout is 'supposed' to look like. Unfortunately, I won't be reporting about anything learned from such an experience in my pack any time soon. Leaders are too entrenched in a half-way attitude.

oh, the baggie thing is the awards. Basically the leaders each stand up with a handful of baggies. One baggie per boy. "Little Johnny earned, this and that and the other", and Johnny comes up for his baggie.

For sure. I'm sure he's pulling his hair out over this one.... But it sure seems to be acting much better this week. maybe not perfect, but I'm able to post and I'm seeing activity. Not that it probably will help matters now that this is so deep here, but I frequent a forum, well actually a group of them, that works great http://rvitch.com/ http://www.popupexplorer.com/ and several other RV related forums that all interact. If your interest is Travel Trailer, there's a portal. Interest in Motorcycle towables, there's a portal for that pop-up campers, yep I think they have them for tents and several others too. Basically one big group that splits out into different sub-interests.... Whatever forum software they use is great!

As an active cub scout dad with a rising Kindergarten aged girl and her 2 year old little sister.... I find this an interesting thread. I've ben in contact with our CO's GS leader a few times re. recruitment efforts in the parish. haven't met her, just email and a couple phone calls. My last call to her was to get info. to sign up my daughter in the daisy program next year. She asked if my wife would be interested in leading a daisy 'den' or whatever they call it, since they don't have any active girls that age.... Noticed that she conspicuously didn't ask my availability for leadership.... hum, strike 1. (I didn't push it, figured that's a question for a different day...) Asked about camping, and they don't really. Sleep overs at MOSH, stuff like that..... strike 2. I've heard things about GS ties to planned parenthood and such..... Big strike 3. ..... and based on my recent observations of no uniform and no coherent identity or focus, I'm not thinking too highly of the program. ... but I want Cub Scouts for my daughter so I'll continue to try and see how it goes for now.... I really wish that BSA would structure the program to have Girl dens in the pack, and come up with something that would work on the troop level..... I can see the need for it to not be co-ed, but maybe parallel troops that come together occasionally??? Whatever it is, this to me seems like so much more of an issue that needs attention, than the big hubbub about gays. Worried about recruitment and headcounts BSA? You are missing a huge market potential!!!

I've had similar thoughts about getting them outside. Have suggested it too, but there's always the logistics and it's just so much easier to go inside, pull up a seat, and do the same old distribution-o-baggies thing..... I want to do something different, but I'm not the one running it, and can't turn a ship by myself.....

This is us a year ago. The only difference is that we had some activity in there as well - some activities were better than others. I tried the sit on the floor in a circle thing and it sorta worked, but it can get chaotic. As a CM, one suggestion. Pick an area of the pack meeting you'd like to see improved and volunteer to the CM to take that on. If I had a leader that came to me and said, "I'd like to make awards" more meaningful, I'd be most appreciative! What interested me in the den activities is that I have a gut feel we need to move beyond the pack meeting as entertainment + awards, and towards something more. I'm also thinking that we need to find a way to be more than just 50 boys in a room all together. Put slightly differently... Right now, I think our general approach to the year is that boys go to den meetings and do den & rank stuff. Boys go to pack meetings to get awards & play. There is little relationship between the two. Also, there is little meaning from going to the pack meetings. That doesn't seem right. great points...... there are so many directions, I'm honestly a bit overwhelmed as which area to tackle first! Right also for us too, re. the lack of a deeper meaning. Even though they are boys and really don't care on the surface about any deeper meaning, I'll bet it matters down deep in there somewhere!

I think the T-Shirt thing is just lazy. Yeah, sure.... there's a place for it when doing some highly active outing or something..... but IMO a meeting aint the place. A field trip to tour a fire station or whatever aint the place. Hanging from a zip-line, jumping trampolines..... ok, I might buy the idea of a T-Shirt here..... I've heard my son grumble about the uniform 2 or maybe 3 times over the Tiger and Wolf years..... but I think only because he's had to get up and move to make the meeting. It's more about not wanting to change clothes, go find his socks, etc..... than the uniform itself. We get exactly the same grief often when leaving the house for other things too..... Honestly, I think the boys can sense that they look goofy or sloppy..... I know I sure can, and did as a boy, too. You know that feeling of looking sharp if you put on a new suit that fits? Put on the uniform complete, neat, and looking sharp. Feels good. Makes you stand a little taller! Now put on some clothes that don't fit right. Baggy shirt or worse, one that's too tight.... Mismatched pants (jeans or whatever) that are out of place. Maybe throw in white socks and dress shoes to complete the goofy mismatched outfit.....untucked and sloppy. Feels goofy. Makes you want to stand a little shorter & hide..... or just go home. So the boys see their dads' and leaders wearing half a uniform for one or more of the many excuses already stated many times before..... maybe a shirt that doesn't fit right.... and then they follow suit and only wear it half way. Necker rolled up sloppy and thrown around their neck. Lost the woggle, so they have it tied in some sloppy knot, with the standing ends pointing in different directions, one more or less down and the other up and to the left..... they look like a complete goof, and feel like it too! No wonder some of the boys start complaining about the uniform. Much easier and more comfortable to wear the same t-shirt that they wore to school, as opposed to putting on a mess and feeling like a goof. Sure there are weaknesses in quality, design, or whatever...... but nothing that can't be overcome if you wanted to. Teach them to take pride in the uniform!

I've started since day one trying to teach my son that same respect for the blue uniform, and pride in wearing it correctly.

With the t-shirts, the whole pride in accomplishment thing is shot..... no point then in rank patches, belt loops, temporary patches, etc... Shoots down the whole idea & function of the instant recognition beads. its a lot of money and work sewing on those patches for something that will be worn a handful of times before they outgrow it. The boys don't get used to the feeling of it, making them even more self conscious when they finally do wear them. the public identity is lost .... I could probably think of a few more......

Yeah, I don't feel like we've hit the magic formula either..... not even close. I've been trying to "suggest" to our CM that we need some sort of activity or something to get the boys out of the chairs, but that's not his style. He's following the model of his predecessors. Basically we do maybe a prayer, flags, announcements, a few jokes from the CM maybe, awards..... maybe a skit or two from one of the dens. More blah blah blah..... much of it directed over the kids' heads to the parents in the back. I even suggested that instead of chairs at the tables, he get the boys to sit on the floor around him..... more of a camp fire discussion with the boys. Hasn't happened yet.

Last year I watched at one of the last den meetings of the year, as the DL sat down with several of the moms and went through their books signing off on stuff...... then they went through through the belt loop book...... "Sure, little billy knows how to swim"... "Safe Swim Defense, what's that?".... ah, that doesn't matter...... "He played volleyball at a family picnic last year".....

Costs are readily found with a google search. I can't comment about any recent track purchases, but I have worked the races the last couple of years. Our pack uses a plastic derbymagic track. I like it better than the aluminum ones.... and better than the wooden tracks I've seen, but given the random mechanical abilities of those assembling and disassembling over the several years the pack has owned it, a few of the attachment screws have pulled through the plastic. It could be designed a bit better in my opinion.... For software, we use http://grandprix-software-central.com/. We had misplaced the disk and were unable to get it from the computer used last year. With a simple call to the company, we upgraded for a very reasonable cost to the latest version. It was time to upgrade anyway..... their customer service was great. Again, just an opinion, but if money is a concern at all I think that a small start-up pack would do well to make a wooden track and skip the electronics and use an observant line judge. It's just a kids race after all. Seems like a good project to get a few dads together and involved.... I built a 16ft single lane test track this year using PVC trim boards from lowes. Two 1x4 boards butted end to end, with two lattice strips as a guide glued and screwed to the top. Took me no more than 10 minutes. The smooth surface of the PVC made for a nice track. Add a little more time for a basic stand, and a simple starting gate.... The software is nice to help work out the race ladder and lane assignments, but not a show stopper if you don't have it. Not sure, but I'll bet some of these programs would work even if you don't use the electronic sensors for the first year or two, and just manually enter the 1st 2nd and 3rd place cars..... maybe call the software companies to see if that would work? So in summary, my suggestions: - go old school for the first year or three - when more money comes available, buy some software - then when more money & time comes available, add the electronic switches and eye sensors to capture the winners...... - Then way down the road when more money comes around and when the wooden one starts to need repairs.... buy a store bought track OR, if money is no object.... well, then you wouldn't be asking.......

something like that is what I imagined, but with some sort of formal color code or other way to record progress toward rank..... to either add to or replace the instant recognition bead thing....

Yeah, something like a rubber band might work....... Someone on another forum turned me onto the idea of the arrow of light awards where they wrap band of various colors of thread or tape around the arrows to indicate all the ranks and achievements. The idea being that the boys could each have a shaft, that over time becomes their arrow of light.... I still would prefer a hiking stick, but the arrow thing seems like a good idea.... they both have their own logistical issues and add layers of complexity that I'm not sure is good though.... As you said,WEBELOS has the pin system..... likewise the wolf and bear programs have the instant recognition beads for this purpose..... but the beads just don't seem to work for us.

I see the same issues with the Cubs and advancement too. Drives me crazy to give these awards to boys that I can tell didn't do their best.... or I'm pretty sure in some cases that the parent signed them off late one evening after they were in bed, just because they did this or that once..... maybe last year or the year before..... A personal regret I have is not continuing with Scouting as a boy.... I made it through cubs and quit after the first year or so in the troop......so to that end I'll push my son.... scratch that, GUIDE him....but only so far. I gave into the peer pressure that scouting wasn't cool, but I think if I'd had someone encouraging and guiding me, AND I'd not been so shy and made better friends in scouting, maybe I would have..... I'd like to join you Basement, desert, and veni for that drink.......

done. Let me know if it doesn't come through.....

If no rank to work towards, what's the point..... just flounder along, doing various activities and outings...... talking about "stuff".....with no specific point or direction.....?

Now as a boy, I went through cubs but I didn't get very far along the path in Boy Scouts.... I'm a Cub Leader now, so I don't have experience in this area...... BUT I sure don't like the sounds of this leader. I understand that if a boy isn't mature enough and isn't doing a good job I a given position he shouldn't get credit for it as if he did well..... An example that I can think of..... At my church, there are a couple small garden areas with a bench or two set, nice landscaping, etc.... and a small sign indicating that it was so & so's Eagle project.... a good effort, but the benches aren't even sitting level! Bugs me every time in fact last Sunday I said to my wife I had half a mind to sneak out some Saturday after noon and level them out! I don't know what the project requirements are exactly, but I might believe that there would be room for slowing something like that down..... .....but why squash enthusiasm? What's wrong with a young Eagle? Seems to me that a troop would benefit from having a few eagles in the troop for a while, as opposed to the boys that earn eagle then age out the next day. An active eagle in the troop could be an inspiration to the younger boys..... make the rank seem more achievable..... and it could help the young eagle by being in a position of seniority and leadership. No sir, don't like it at all and in fact I think I would have to call him on it. Not right to make up rules.

I meant my original idea, not the hydrogen.... that's just plain crazy talk!

ok, for flashy.... fill the balloons with hydrogen gas. Place a lit candle near by the target, maybe shielded form view by the boys. Pop the balloon, bang! and volunteer her for filling and resetting the targets! I like a marriage of my idea with ScoutNut's

I'm ADL for my son's Den. We'll be the Bear Den next year. The DL & I are trying to think of ideas to better encourage the boys' participation in recording their advancement. Our original DL didn't really utilize the instant recognition bead thing well at all, and this has continued this year as well. We just haven't made it a big part of the meeting. I've tried encourage our leaders to use it and I think it could work if we pushed it more, but I don't really think the boys care about getting a bead..... since many don't wear their uniforms enough, & frankly it is kind of boring.... Honestly, I hate the look of them on the uniform anyway.... We've tried to use the wall chart thing, asking verbally, and sending emails, but the parents aren't really participating in letting us know their boys progress. I think the key is the boys and getting them to drive it. We are looking for something a bit more visual at the den meetings and hands on. I thought of the Den Doodle, but our DL suggested Indian spears with feathers, or hiking sticks. I think the spear thing is, well, cool and the boys would love it of course!..... but it's a bit too 'aggressive' and not really the 'image' of scouting I think. I'm pushing to make the beads, doodle, or whatever we do to be more of a formal part of the meeting. Take a few minutes after the prayer, pledge, and promise to have each boy report and record their progress since the last meeting and hang a feather or whatever. I think we could also use this time to encourage uniform wear, coach for incorrect patch placement, etc.... and maybe be more of an encouragement overall for attendance. Anyway, I like the hiking stick idea instead of a doodle.... it's useful it fits the scouting image we could carry it over to WEBELOS its a good keep sake relatively cheap and easy to make but problems I see; stick 'fights' and boys doing what they do when they have sticks forgetting to bring it .... so the DL or I would almost need to keep them and bring them. 10 hiking sticks aren't really the easiest to transport and display at the meetings (we can't leave them there) So my questions: Anyone ever done this or similar? Any ideas for what to hang on the stick to show the progress toward ranks, etc..... that wouldn't fall off the first time it's used for a hike? Any ideas on how we could display our "useful Doodle" at den and pack meetings?

I'm ADL for my son's Den. We'll be the Bear Den next year. The DL & I are trying to think of ideas to better encourage the boys' participation in recording their advancement. Our original DL didn't really utilize the instant recognition bead thing well at all, and this has continued this year as well. We just haven't made it a big part of the meeting. I've tried encourage our leaders to use it and I think it could work if we pushed it more, but I don't really think the boys care about getting a bead..... since many don't wear their uniforms enough, & frankly it is kind of boring.... Honestly, I hate the look of them on the uniform anyway.... We've tried to use the wall chart thing, asking verbally, and sending emails, but the parents aren't really participating in letting us know their boys progress. I think the key is the boys and getting them to drive it. We are looking for something a bit more visual at the den meetings and hands on. I thought of the Den Doodle, but our DL suggested Indian spears with feathers, or hiking sticks. I think the spear thing is, well, cool and the boys would love it of course!..... but it's a bit too 'aggressive' and not really the 'image' of scouting I think. I'm pushing to make the beads, doodle, or whatever we do to be more of a formal part of the meeting. Take a few minutes after the prayer, pledge, and promise to have each boy report and record their progress since the last meeting and hang a feather or whatever. I think we could also use this time to encourage uniform wear, coach for incorrect patch placement, etc.... and maybe be more of an encouragement overall for attendance. Anyway, I like the hiking stick idea instead of a doodle.... it's useful it fits the scouting image we could carry it over to WEBELOS its a good keep sake relatively cheap and easy to make but problems I see; stick 'fights' and boys doing what they do when they have sticks forgetting to bring it .... so the DL or I would almost need to keep them and bring them. 10 hiking sticks aren't really the easiest to transport and display at the meetings (we can't leave them there) So my questions: Anyone ever done this or similar? Any ideas for what to hang on the stick to show the progress toward ranks, etc..... that wouldn't fall off the first time it's used for a hike? Any ideas on how we could display our "useful Doodle" at den and pack meetings?

I'm ADL for my son's Den. We'll be the Bear Den next year. The DL & I are trying to think of ideas to better encourage the boys' participation in recording their advancement. Our original DL didn't really utilize the instant recognition bead thing well at all, and this has continued this year as well. We just haven't made it a big part of the meeting. I've tried encourage our leaders to use it and I think it could work if we pushed it more, but I don't really think the boys care about getting a bead..... since many don't wear their uniforms enough, & frankly it is kind of boring.... Honestly, I hate the look of them on the uniform anyway.... We've tried to use the wall chart thing, asking verbally, and sending emails, but the parents aren't really participating in letting us know their boys progress. I think the key is the boys and getting them to drive it. We are looking for something a bit more visual at the den meetings and hands on. I thought of the Den Doodle, but our DL suggested Indian spears with feathers, or hiking sticks. I think the spear thing is, well, cool and the boys would love it of course!..... but it's a bit too 'aggressive' and not really the 'image' of scouting I think. I'm pushing to make the beads, doodle, or whatever we do to be more of a formal part of the meeting. Take a few minutes after the prayer, pledge, and promise to have each boy report and record their progress since the last meeting and hang a feather or whatever. I think we could also use this time to encourage uniform wear, coach for incorrect patch placement, etc.... and maybe be more of an encouragement overall for attendance. Anyway, I like the hiking stick idea instead of a doodle.... it's useful it fits the scouting image we could carry it over to WEBELOS its a good keep sake relatively cheap and easy to make but problems I see; stick 'fights' and boys doing what they do when they have sticks forgetting to bring it .... so the DL or I would almost need to keep them and bring them. 10 hiking sticks aren't really the easiest to transport and display at the meetings (we can't leave them there) So my questions: Anyone ever done this or similar? Any ideas for what to hang on the stick to show the progress toward ranks, etc..... that wouldn't fall off the first time it's used for a hike? Any ideas on how we could display our "useful Doodle" at den and pack meetings?

At our B&G, the boys not going on to a troop didn't cross the bridge.