blw2

you know, I've been thinking. for the first couple years, I even spoon fed the info to the parents of the boys receiving the religious medal. I wrote up a little half page or so thing, with pictures, and included it with the knot patches... and emailed it out as well..... most of the boys still didn't have it even close..... I was going to post two pictures, and ask, which one looks better on a trail one with scouts in mismatched garb.... and one in uniform..... but I couldn't find one with scouts in BSA uniform that wasn't staged! I know I've seen them, liken scouts on a mountaintop in uniform.... just couldn't find one.

OK, fair enough.... you've got a point qwazse....but for perspective, I'm writing as a Cubmaster, not a Scoutmaster & for what it's worth, I may very well be part of the problem for not correcting our boys, but I think in keeping with what you are getting at, I too don't want to make a focus onto the stuff that nobody really seems to care about or that seems negative..... so I don't make a habit of pointing out uniform errors.... not that I know all the rules either, but I just don't feel right about correcting a boy, when their den leader is standing there with no uniform, or with jeans for pants, or some other variation on lack of uniform... or even worse, mom or dad is standing there, and obviously hasn't taken the effort to even try to follow the one page uniform guide the scout shop gave them when they bought it. I'm not one to recite chapter and verse, but I at least wear the socks to go along with the pants and the tucked-in shirt! I try to set an example, and whenever I can fit it into the conversation or my Cubmaster's Minute, I point out the uniform or features.... or call attention to the proper wear and usage of the "Activity Uniform" worn under the "Field Uniform".... and I don't use the military alphabet names with the scouts....

You are right qwazse.... I agree, except to excuse the practice, which is what I'm sensing is your point...... BUT the thing is, it 'aint that hard to get it right, at least pretty close. Sure, there may be a "100 page manual".. but it doesn't really take study to get the concept. There are plenty of cheat sheet type quick look quides, and a 2 minute google search will answer almost any question about any obscure patch or medal. My uniform, and my son's, might not be 100% to the millimeter, but it's pretty close and it doesn't take much effort.... I find it shameful that so many folks can't be bothered with such a minor amount of effort. So, jblake called the solution. Some of us don't like it.... but there it is in our face.

it's my opinion after very much thought and reflection in my years as a Cub Scouter and Troop CC, that the T-Shirt, what some of us for some reason like to call "class B" is the root of a lot of problems, including the lack of identity. We look like some odd undefined generic "youth group" Instead of looking like a group of "scouts" when we are together... hiking, doing service work, even when camping..... could be a church group, a school class, or any number of clubs. and beyond that, I could list several other faults in the program that root on these blasted T-Shirts that we have let worm their way into the program. Even the solo necker, as mentioned in the previous post, is something that says "Scout", and nothing else.

I'm a cub scouter, and my days of my 1 or 2 years as a scout were a long time ago so that I really can't remember much about what we did at meetings....so please forgive me for asking.... But what do you do at meetings if not work on skills and such, many of which will surely apply to merit badges? I get the point that has been stated here many times that it benefits the scout to call, coordinate, etc... & I get that it might be good to not do merit badge "cram courses" that takes all boys through start to finish.... But what's wrong with working as a group on some requirement that might be applied towards a merit badge? If not that, what do you do in the meetings?

Oh yeah, that reminds me.... mixed in with all those text books through the years were always a healthy sampling of magazine reading re. my interests of aviation, scuba, and outdoors....

I've always imagined the purpose or intent being that any time a boy is under watch of a scouter, the form should be available. If 911 must be called, of course nobody cares about the form for true FIRST aid, but until mom or dad get there from wherever they are, it gives the hospital management something to start with..... insurance info, etc.... Further more, I'd want the hospital to have my son's insurance info and treat him like a paying customer, instead of treating him like a non-paying customer.....

We've got a related situation I think in my pack, where we have our CO's troop, and then another troop nearby that many of our pack has crossed over to over recent years. Now, the leaders of the other troop who still have sons in the pack, I suspect are using pack and den meetings to recruit (not formally,but "in the back of the room") I don't think there's anything directly wrong with what they are doing from what I can tell, but it still rubs me as in bad taste. Just seems tacky.

I agree. Also, I find it unfortunate that leader recognition is locked around it. No that I'm CM, I'm looking to recognize the leaders, and would like to award them the knots Most of us don't care really about them, but I do think it would be good to give them awards that they have earned, showing the youth .... blah blah blah.... BUT, an excellent and hardworking leader that happens to be in a pack that doesn't bother with the paperwork of JTE, is not eligible.... Just a like a CM who's pack decides to take a break in the summer, is not eligible. I get that these are measures of a strong unit, measures of a unit that benefits the BSA with growth, etc.... But these are not the only measures... AND as you pointed out, it's extra paperwork that we just don't need. Just doesn't seem right to me.

it's an interesting cycle. I think its natural for a unit to cycle up and down through time. I'm currently CM for a catholic parish's pack. Our CO's troop is just coming off a down trend that sounds very similar to yours..... the only difference being that our pack was strong. Lately, most of our cubs are crossing to our troop instead of leaving for another. Now, as our troops ranks are growing, now to the point where it might be growing too fast.... our pack is shrinking. The old clique of friends that formed the pack committee had a strong group going. They became rather cliquish and folks wanted to join them but then weren't made to feel included..... Now they have mostly all gone to another troop.... and new, parents are much less interested in participating, and I'm just not seeing traction.... now to the point that, like you, I'm concerned that the pack might fold in the next year or two when I and the majority of our cubs age out and the few active parents leave. My gut tells me though, that it will be a very small pack but will continue for a year or two, then some new energy will come and it will grow again. During this time, the troop will even out since we are currently its only feeder. This is my hope anyway.

I must admit that I like the idea of this. Thought about prepping for it when i was assist DL, but there is no way.... we don't have a great track of awards earned, and can barely get anyone to participate in doing it. The boys rarely wear their uniforms and really show little interest in displaying their awards..... so in my pack, I'm nearly alone in this interest.

I know this has been beat around before, but I wanted to just start a new thread for fresh takes..... Faced with our B&G coming up soon, and the departure of our current 2nd year WEBELOS leader, I would like to give him a little gift from the pack as a memento. The pack doesn't have money this year, so I'm contemplating just buying a little something with my own money..... Last year the CM gave leaders at the end of the year little swiss army knives..... I'm drawn to the knife idea, as the only practical thing I can come up with..... maybe even an engraved Opinel which are inexpensive & I think quite nice.... BUT knives seem to predictable and over done. I'm not really into chotsky nic-nac stuff and I'm not really into corny stuff. I'd like to give what I would like to get.... something useful, something durable that I might keep a long time, and something that won't end up forgotten, just another knife in the drawer.... hence engraved maybe..... I could even see something like a framed miniature pack flag, but I'll never be able to pull that off in time at this point..... or should I just give him a hearty handshake, look him in the eye, and say "Thank you"?

I actually agree with that! I tend to like to conform and work within the system as much as possible, but I have long thought they push too much to the volunteers...... Really, recharter could be as simple as check one box by each member that is dropping. done, send the check! I mean thay already have all the applications....

agreed. No way the folks in our council's office would go for that. Reactivation?.....fill out a new application! I've had to fill out so many application for just me..... changing positions, somebody lost it, change position again..... ugh. It's maddening when i know its a single database field that needs to be changed. I actually think that recharter isn't so bad, with just a little cooperation. If you have a treasurer that will confirm who has paid and you have leaders that will take the training soon after learning that their YPT needs to be re-taken (for example) and if you maintain a roster of you group (I do as a spreadsheet, just that simple) and if you keep your new applications current, rather than holding them for recharter Then all you have to do is run a trained leaders report sometime in the fall, and send a quick email to remind leaders who have training due, or coming due and sometime by Nov or Dec, check of on your roster who has paid. and highlight who has not (so you can verify that they are dropping) then it's pretty much a click through exercise.....

I'm a cub scouter, so pardon if this is a dumb question...... but parallel to this, do you consider the project itself and how "significant it is? I have seen what amounted to little more than a plant, in the ground, perhaps with a store bought bench beside it.... and a nice little plaque announcing that it was an Eagle project. I have also seen a scout that collected money and hired a professional contractor to build a massive foot bridge. Just based on appearances, no physical construction was done by the scout or his troop mates.... but that's just an assumption. But maybe they worked under the professional. Regardless, just seems like a big delta that I have seen, & in thinking towards my future, wondered when I would tell a boy to try again.

a little off topic of the showers, but still related..... I am troubled by the whole bathroom thing. When you are camping in a state park or some similar place, there are public restrooms Really the same thing at our local BSA reservation there's a general public mens room and there's a general public ladies room. there are not separate youth only rooms no way to know if their are youth in there before I walk in.... and nothing in place for them to keep them out while I'm in there. The unwritten rule, at least around here.... seems to be that with cubs, it's all family camping so it's no different that the bathroom at your local Burger King

I have never pursued it but often thought it would be great for a group like scouts..... well great if the folks had energy and interest to be involved. Sadly, many of the parents of our pack would not have the energy to check it and get involved..... Some might say that a facebook group is what you are asking for. Actually, it would probably fit the bill quite nicely.

Friday Our pack has historically met on Friday evening. Den's are up to the DL and the Den to figure out. When my son's Tiger Dl picked Friday, I was seriously against it at first since in theory that means 2-3 den meetings + 1 pack meeting = every Friday devoted to scouts. In reality, it's not quite that bad as there are holiday conflicts etc... when we don't meet. Friday works out great.... not many conflicts with sports or other interests no homework worries no bed time worries no getting home from work worries

Bless You! Oh how I wish we could have a perpetual Tiger Leader! I honestly believe that it would go a long way to solving many of our problems. We always struggle to find a tiger leader out of the new parents.... then each Den, as much as I try to help guide.... will go the way of re-inventing the wheel. Then, there's the sidebar to this thread of the problem in getting parents involved.... A Tiger Leader that isn't trying to just figure thing out could go a long way in getting the parents primed in service... I think an ideal would be to have a perpetual Tiger Leader (& maybe ADL team.... they could swap every now and then for a break) then out of each group, recruit a parent to be the DL for the rest of the program starting with Wolf Then have a standing practice that a different parent at the Bear year would be ACM to a CM from the WEB1 year.... then in their son's WEB2 year, the now former CM could still be advisor if needed for the now new CM.

and another.... originally Wilmington, and school in Charlotte

Yes.... I like the idea I wonder though how many cancels you will get though.... "Uh, sorry, ah, I have a conflict and can't make that meeting" ~~I've pounded my head against the wall and have all but given up. I figure that you can only go so far. If somebody wants to help, they will. if they don't want to, they won't..... and if you "make them" you might wish that you'd just done it yourself or wish that you'd just dropped it.... How well was it received by the parents?

in our troop, the scouts each bring their own "mess kit". Some have kits and some have plates and such.... each in a mesh bag. Our troop isn't set up this way, but I'm a fan of each camp out being treated as if it were a backpacking or canoeing trip, minimal weight, minimal volume.... so that when the scouts do go on the more adventuresome camps they are well practiced at trail cooking.

That's a great example of a practical skill practiced at a meeting! I'm still at the cub level, and I really wish that even at the cub level, that the achievements were much more centered around activities such as this. Good, practical use, outdoor and life skills. I do recognize a bid difference in our dens when doing the flag ceremony. We rotate responsibilities for flags at the pack mtgs through the dens. My son's DL, currently 1st year WEBELOS, ran through the full indoor flag ceremony at every den meeting for most of their Wolf year and a good bit of the Bear year. Now, even though they still don't show the level of respect I'd like to see with regard to not goofing off, etc.... they still are way ahead of all the other dens when it comes to the basics.... which side of the room, how to cross the flags, etc....

Yeah maybe true.... I actually did get to experience what you suggest.... but it wasn't a fire, it was a flood during a hurricane. Went over to a friend's house the next day, he was in shock. Lost just about everything. Regardless, I still contend that the pin or patch that reminds of a story or a personal accomplishment...."Yeah, I got that when I was in cub scouts. the Den Leader took us up.... and me and my friend Jimmy climbed down in....... Boy, did I learn my lesson!" that one will mean much more than the other one he picks up and says... "yeah, I got that when I was a cub scout. I know that much, but I have no idea when or where or what it was for."