blw2

As we kick off our 2nd year for WEBELOS, I'm starting to think more about the choice my son faces, and how i can best guide him and the other boys in the den. I figure it comes down to about 99.95% in favor of where their friends go, but still it seems that the boys really should consider their options.... We really have three troops to choose from, based on geography. A few boys may have 1 or 2 others, but primarily it's 3 troops. 1) one of them isn't much of a consideration IMO, based on some unscouter-like stuff from the leaders, but some of our boys have older brothers and dads there.... 2) The second one also has older brothers and dads involved, and is our CO's troop (my church). Sort of boy lead, but in many ways it feels like 3rd year WEBELOS from the outside anyway 3) The 3rd troop is an unknown for me. It's the one that boys from my son's school's pack go to. In another thread a few weeks back, one of you posted with some very sound advice of questions to ask and what to look for in a troop visit. It was a sidetrack to the thread, so I figured I'd start a new topic... It seems like a multi-layered issue to me... the boys need to visit, ask questions, etc.... but so do us parents. So I'm trying to build a list of questions to have in mind.... maybe two lists....one for adults to consider, and another for the boys to consider.... and starting to think about how we might coach the boys to consider their options. I'm looking for suggestions and also any comments or tips on: what to look for how to conduct a troop visit (NOT from the troop's perspective, but from the perspective of the visiting WEBELOS scout, parent, and den leader) questions to ask Here's my starting draft of a list of questions.... Troop Shopping Questions: How big is your troop? How Assistant SM’s? how many boys? ask Adults - Who leads your troop? ask Boys - Who leads your troop? How are the decisions made such as where you are going and when? How is your youth participation rate in activities (%)? How much interaction is there between adults and boys? How are your patrols formed? Who decides? Do your patrols get reformed periodically? For what reasons? Who drives it? Who decides? What nights and times are your meetings?

and as the OP, is there a way for me to edit the name of the thread? After posting, I don't like the way it looks....

I was thinking of picking up a BS handbook for use in my son's 2nd year WEBELOS den.... mainly for me as an early look ahead. Checking scoutstuff.org, it looks like the 12th edition is on the shelf. Isn't there a 13th edition due out soon? Do we know when?

sorry, late to this one.... Cub Scout Pack We have a web site, just something that was made using a template from one of the web host companies, pretty much basic stuff not convinced that it was ever looked at all that much I set up a google calendar, which is shared to the pack's web site, and folks can link to it on their computers and phones (I'm not convinced that anyone did, well except 1 or 2 folks) but it sure helped me keep on top of things The previous CM set up email groups using emaildodo, forwarding through alises attached to our pack's domain. the alias part glitched a few times, but dodo works great. Sadly, I think it's being abandoned now. oh & I used google drive heavily, with sheets for a roster that I could use for tracking stuff and of course email I spent many hours researching the package tools such as scoutbook, troopwebhost, and the like.... determined that they are somewhat of a waste for us since I can't even get parents to reply to an email. they rarely update the books, or communicate to the leaders..... if it takes effort, they wait for the DL to put out the work. and besides, it really seems like a waste to track advancement for cubs. There's no need in it. except I can maybe see it useful for a mega pack with 100 boys, just in making shopping lists for awards... but even then, it's a small enough bite for the DL to handle (assuming normal sized dens)

at the top left click Home click on legacy Web Tools go to legacy myscouting which I suppose you could short cut to "go to the old site" then "Update My Profile"

reading the rest of the thread, I'm finding this very interesting. So part of the reason for the BOR is to celebrate the boys accomplishments and what he achieved and earned. Gives him interview practice, etc... But it is not a retest, so the BOR committee aren't really verifying that the sign-offs weren't pencil whips..... So what is it, a discussion to feel out the boy's attitude during and after these tasks? A Q&A of what he learned or how he grew through the process? And the BOR committee is supposed to somehow gauge the program, the boys general abilities and knowledge, his attitude, his skills for the sole purpose of giving program feedback to the Program Leaders. Makes sense. They are suppose to do this without testing the boy. But BOR members will commonly test the boy anyway. They might ask the boy to tie a knot, for example. Does the boy understand that this is not a pass/fail request from the BOR? Does the boy understand that this is a test of the program, not a test for his rank? Yep, it's a really clear process......

interesting history. Thanks! I can't validate or dispute the accuracy of this history, but it seems plausible to me for sure. This points to my current "soap box issue" of the huge variabilities in programs due to the unclear job descriptions, etc.... I think most folks, especially committee members don't really know what they are supposed to be doing. The little training that's available doesn't help much, with confusing language and it's vagueness which is open to interpretation Most folks learn by example, especially since they have little time for the training or doing their own research. So committees act based on the models they were shown. The folks that came before them... which are generally driven by some person's interpretation or intuition, which may not always the best. So I'd imagine that the folks sitting on BOR's are doing things because that's how they were shown to do.... with a little bit of their own intuition thrown in. Here, the intuition is, "the kid lied. That's not very scout like. As a parent, I would do X, Y. Z." The bigger issue, from my perspective, is the real lack of consistency here. The unknown. The lack of One Program for all boys.

I haven't seen anyone wearing the yellow for quite a while. but folks can still wear vintage stuff if they want. If I were you and had the time, i would consider posting them for sale on ebay. Might find a collector and make a couple bucks. Vintage seems like such a niche thing that just finding a local unit to donate them to seems like it would be a lost cause.... most folks may not appreciate the vintage stuff, and it might end up unappreciated an in the trash.... just my gut feel.

I have found it a bit confusing..... never knew which site I was going to .... just couldn't remember... is the dot the new one, or the old one? anyway, I was always confused....have to go to the new for some info, and have to go to the old one for other info, which it seems is finally over at the new with this update...

I had hoped a few times to get uniformed military to visit. My closest attempt was a toys for tots campaign. The program is run by the Marine Corp League, but they were going to arrange for an active duty Marine or Two to come along. Sadly, our collection box was pathetic leading up to the meeting, so I called them knowing that the uniformed guys were spread thin. I was frankly embarrassed. and so only a couple of retired League guys came. They were Viet Nam vets. Which would have been more than fine anyway But despite my attempts to talk with the guys before they came, I only had a very brief conversation before the meeting, and then they showed up late.... So there was insufficient time to really prep them, and me... I purposely left it to them, thinking that the best presentation would be something that they felt passionate about, not what i wanted them to talk about.... I just suggested that they speak a bit about the program, then talk about their service.... a couple hints that it would be great to talk about patriotism, the flag, the uniform, respect, their service, etc.... Well, it was a flop. They talked about toys for tots flubbed a bit about patriotism or some such thing and then dodged any questions about their service, only skirting around it. they were unprepared and nervous, and it showed.... and the boys picked up on that. My read was that there were two things perhaps in play 1) they were likely uncertain of being too crude or inappropriate with the little guys and likely didn't know how to convert R rated stories down to G or PG 2) they may very well have had PTSD of some sort and didn't really want to talk about it. ... and in the end, the box went from something like 4 toys in it to overflowing the night of the meeting. It seems that the pack and also the CO's youth group delivered their donations the night of the pack meeting! So in hindsight I should have let the uniformed Marines come! Ugh, I was ticked! My point to this long story: I suggest you meet with your guest before the meeting, or at least have a good phone conversation. Don't assume that he knows kids or what's appropriate. Encourage him to open up. Prompt him with your seed topics before hand. ​Let him talk about what he's passionate about, if he has something in mind....

yep, and I know of one troop that does over the top trips too, involving air fare and exotic locales.... big money

yeah I'm not yet convinced..... of course a northern troop will have different core activities than a southern one differences like that, but otherwise, I'm still wondering.....

and an excellent museum it is. They have a youth camp program too, that looks good. I'm an EAA member Patriots Point in Charleston has a pretty great Scout program.... sleep on an aircraft carrier along with lots of great opportunities for scouts.

I think in theory that it's a great program that almost every boy would get something good out of. Some more than others of course, but I think almost all would get something good. In practice though, I think there's far to much hit and miss between units, and even within units. In some cases the misses serve to make the program a negative or neutral, instead of the "hit" that it wants to be. It just not clearly defined enough that with the differing interest and effort levels of scouters, some programs suffer so it certainly isn't for everyone. If a boy doesn't have a good unit in his areas, then how can it be? Beyond that, the outdoor method is also something that a few boys just will not enjoy, no matter how well its done. I'm not so sure about the girl side.... my daughter is relatively new with the GSUSA program, and since I'm not a girl have not been all that involved.

to make sure I'm getting what you are saying.... So your assistant ran some activity for the whole den and while they were doing that, you called away each boy individually, one at a time, along with his parent.... to another room or area? Was this a one time thing, or every meeting?

I'm at the point with my son of getting ready to steer him to start looking at troops. Our CO's troop, while trying to do the boy lead thing, I fear does very little of that. I was the CC for a very short time, and since then have been on their email list since I was CubMaster (just for awareness in an effort to strengthen the pack/troop relationship) I get the sense that the conversation is more like Committee: Let's set up a camping trip next month. OK, when. Scoutmaster: well I can't do it on the 12th, how bout the 19th? Committee: sounds great. Let's see if the boys want to go to X. I get the idea the boys might have a little say in where, but it's steered by the adults. The when certainly is. I get the feeling the boys drive the menu, the plan, etc... a bit more though... I hope I can get my son and his friends to realize they should be looking for your conversation when shopping for a troop!

An example of one of the several facets that I'm getting at..... In a separate current thread, There you have a scout master doing it his way, that took four years to "fix" ....and @@walk in the woods, "One way". Well that's tough. Certainly it would never really be a rigid tiny box..... And I guess I was really just what-iffing in platitudes.... & venting a bit, not so literally.... I'll take a stab to further comment..... In that other discussion I quoted, I think @ outlined what seems like a pretty good solution to that question... so lets just say that if his troop's solution were painted on the walls of the BSA, then you would never have this question coming up about how best to cater to different ability and interest groups, which results in that other SM doing something that will take years to fix.... "Boy lead" is another example that comes to mind. How often do we see discussions on that come up here, with differing approaches. But come on, really how complicated is it really?!? It's a pretty simple concept!!! But there's so much stress created by it Define, we all do the same thing... simple ONE program, no headaches.....

just looking from the outside, I think this is the way it should be as a general rule.... perhaps with a luxuriating plop camp once in a while as a special "treat" if they want it..... The boys would probably have more fun for the most part with the rustic..... just my guess.

with recent threads, such as "Path to Save BSA" and "This would be so much more fun without the adults" and my personal frustrations recently.... get me to thinking while the volunteer base are the shoulders of the BSA's program it's also its Achilles heel that lames I don't know the answer but I keep wanting to think that better consistency and less latitude in unit structure, program delivery, training, etc.... may very well be the one key in saving the BSA. I keep finding myself so very frustrated at the reinventing the wheel gross inefficiencies differing opinions of "how" or "why" or "when" repeating mistakes politics posturing perceived unit experts that think they know or act like they know, but really don't the wide range of leaders, from those that train and care.... to those that are just well intended but are just free agents etc... all when there really should be one way with almost no thinking required. Simple. It all really does nothing but squash enthusiasm and push good people away. I'm a case in point. Tons of positive energy and enthusiasm to want to do my level best in almost any small role to help the boys through the scouting program. Willing to put in a lot of my time, money, and energy. Willing to step into larger roles if there was a need. ...... but I keep finding myself thinking that it's just not worth all the other stuff. I often feel that every time I jump back into it,I'm jumping into a swirling cesspool.... and it's all the adult stuff, not the youth program side. So I get out, gain perspective, and then do it all over again...... One of these days it's gonna get through my thick skull to move on.... and when that happens the BSA will loose a valuable resource that it never figured out how to utilize. I know that we humans doesn't like to be boxed in But in some ways wouldn't a simple, clearly defined, "only one way to do it program" streamline everything and reduce the virtual head butting?

or could it not be BSA, but from someplace else.....say England for example? If it's the Fleur De Li only, I guess that might be a possibility....

yeah, that's a good point My 1st anker battery was an older model, 10,000mAh, bought January 2013 used very frequently, almost daily to top off ipads and such, and still going strong.... will charge a phone many times over so no real need for a solar charger for a weekend or even a week, depending on usage.

our pack, historically running between 20-30 boys after cross over used to hope to maintain a balance of approx $3,000 going into summer break But in all my time and with several different treasurers, we never really got a great financial report/statement.... sad really. but it seemed that $3k was a magic number proven by history to cover popcorn show n sell product orders, books, t-shirts, and the initial run of general awards & pack expenses in the first part of the year.... with enough cushion to be very comfortable.... How much cushion you ask?.... see my 1st paragraph.... I have no idea despite doing everything but wearing yet another hat... of the treasurer variety... ( I stayed far away from that one) My guess.... around $2k would be ok, so maybe $1k balance for each 10 boys.....

ah, no..... where is that written? I had read that this was the case someplace unofficial a long time ago when we started WEBELOS, and went into it with that idea.... This was when i was Cubmaster and a new WEB dad..... but we could find no requirement anywhere that spells that out about only the DL is to sign.... it's been a while now, but I'm pretty sure it even has the cub language in the old web books about parents being akela, and them signing.... so I left it up to the DL, and he has continued with either he or Akela signing.... I have to say I don't recall what they said in the online training video for WEBELOS Leader either.... but I would have been looking for this when I sat through it.... I agree though, that it would probably be better to do it this way.... it would certainly help to reduce the pencil whipping and it would help condition the boys for troop life which are the reasons I was originally buying into the idea and suggesting it to the DL. My son's 1st DL back in Tiger, bought those posters, and then asked me to keep up with it. Seems like a great idea, but they would never do it.... I tried through maybe half of Wolf year before giving up It would never be done at the meetings.... they didn't have their books, or hadn't updated and signed off on anything.... and I even reminded them many times to just email me at their convenience, what they signed off on for their sons..... nothing. about all I would get was comments like, "yeah, I really need to sit down with him and his book. Maybe I'll do it this weekend." And then when I was Assistant Cubmaster, I researched heavily the idea into doing some form or another of these tracking programs or web sites..... But through all of this, I decided that with Cubs, there really is no need to track it beyond the scout's book. It's just added work to collect data that nobody needs or cares about.... the only reason we care now, is to regroup and get a picture of what most of them need to work on..... really Big Picture I guess, so we can get the most bang for the buck in the meeting plan....not so much caring about specifics of each bullet point for each boy I've gotta say though, I do like your suggestions of just putting up a poster and leaving it to the boys &/or the parents to do it or the online things If they want it they will, and if they don't they won't But I have enough track record with this group to know, they won't. So that's why I was asking for 1st hand experiences on how other folks have done the sit down with the book thing at meetings....

I'm curious how others do their book reviews, sign offs, and tracking, for advancement with your WEBELOS. Do you do a physical book review at meetings? with parents or the boys or both? How do you structure the activity? Since I'm no longer Cub Mastering, my son's 2nd year WEBELOS DL has asked me to help him as his Assistant As we are finishing up our den meeting plans, one thing the DL wants to do as we kick off the school year is to review where the boys are along their advancement trail.... in an effort to encourage them to finish AOL .... and I would add the condition, "If they want it" We're continuing with the old program, for what that's worth. I think mostly he wants to do this so we can see if there's any big holes that we can work to fill in our meeting planning to help the boys along. So he has an idea to have a welcome back pool party, and while the boys are swimming, we'll sit down with the parents and the books. Personally, i think that I would rather sit down one on one with the boys.... but the parents will likely remember better which meetings they were at, and know what they have done Just from my reviewing the book at home regularly with my son, he's done with everything except the time requirement, the troop visit with the den, and the scoutmaster conference.... I seriously doubt if any of the other boys are that far along. Tracking advancement has never been a strong suit for us. As Assistant DL in Tiger and Wolf, I was never very successful with it, finally coming to the conclusion that my tracking it really doesn't matter anyway (for CUBS) I honestly don't think the boys care all that much. There' just in it for the fun stuff and could care less about the book and patches and the parents don't either.... I've never had much luck in asking them to let me know what has been signed off at home. My concerns are these: I have seen plenty of pencil whipping whenever groups have tried to discuss "where we are", as in a few times the DL tried to pull such a discussion together with the parents at den meetings.... at that drives me nuts! and at the same time really poor interpretations of the confusing language in the book.... all in the interest of pencil whipping and laziness I seriously doubt if most of the parents or boys have taken the time to sign off on much of anything in their books We really don't take attendance to know who was there for what meeting & I remember a few times where at a Den Meeting, the DL had set up to work on an achievement pin, but truthfully didn't hit every bullet point so some homework was needed, but the general statements made that we did that one.... so I doubt if most have looked through the books and followed through.... but if Akela says he did it.....

I've had great luck with the several Anker batteries I have. They get used almost daily in my family.