blw2

Hey, great to see someone from NFC here! Yep, the stomp gliders can be fun, or rockets. I developed the most energy and excitement though, with relay races. Task the webelos with organizing teams or patrols, it gets them involved and helping the younger ones, and it mixes the teams so you don't end up with the little guys competing against the older ones or do it by den A favorite was a balloon pop..... each scout blew up 2 or more balloons (same number for everyone) and they all went in a pile on one side of the room, the teams or patrols. The scout at the head of the line ran to the other side, grabbed a balloon, brought it back to the head of the line, then he had to sit on the balloon till it popped, as soon as it popped, he would move to the back of the line and the next scout would repeat.... I also found a few balloon soccer games one had colored balloons and each den has a corner of the room to get their color into. I found keeping a bunch of balloons on hand was great for back-up or impromptu quick hit chaotic noise inducing fun.

Have any of you on this forum either set up or looked into an Amazon Smile account? I had forgotten about this option form amazon, having signed on several years ago to donate to Wounded Warrior project. Just today I stumbled across reference to it, and I realize that all this time I have not been making my amazon purchases through the correct link. I've been running all my prime purchases through the general amazon link, which apparently doesn't generate a donation. Bummer. Anyway, as the treasurer, it of course dawned on me that perhaps I could look into setting up a donation for the troop. I feel it would be much better to have come from and through a scout.... but sadly I thought of it first. I still might try to think of a way to drop the hint to a scout secretly, maybe to my son, so they think of it.... but that's beside the point of my question.... I'm wondering about how much money troop have made with it, and I guess I'm a bit concerned about creating too much "visibility" to the IRS. I think we are among the first of a "new breed" of troops that have our own EID that falls under our CO's church EID, so things are a bit different than most troops. Any experience or thoughts out there?

yeah, sometimes to cancel or not is a tough call. i have cringed a few times when Den Leaders or now SM's cancel a planned outing ahead of predicted bad weather.... because if it were just me, or me an my family, I would go in a second under those conditions and play it by ear.... you could always get there and once eyes are laid on the river back out.... and switch to a plan B activity but I am sympathetic to that position where it is much harder to do for the group.... can be a tough spot for sure. Good luck!

Our pack had a 'policy' that we didn't pay to volunteer. The pack paid the registration, and offered to pay for any required fingerprinting (CO requirement) and any other direct cost or supplies. for activities and camps, the scouters and parents alike just paid our own fair share. Most folks paid their own stuff though, such as finger printing and a lot of misc supplies. The troop charges registered scouters $25 to cover registration (yeah, i know it's only $24.... I didn't set the number) and if scouters go camping, they work out their equal share of the adult food on their own. I think the troop pays towards some of the training too, although I haven't run into that issue yet. No adult troop dues

honestly, it seems like an awesome resource to be tapped. I am an RVer, currently only the occasion weekend or holiday type trips. DW and I have talked a lot about hitting the road when the kids get older, and the whole work camping thing is somewhat appealing as a now and then sorta thing. Given that I like doing the stuff that scouts do, I can totally imagine doing this, parking for a week or a month at a scout reservation someplace and helping out in return for free hook-ups. In my case it would have to be a location close to a town or other points of interest for DW to occupy herself. She might do some stuff around the camp, but I can't see her taking on a "full time" gig. What this reminds me of though, is my push while doing the CM thing for the pack, to get grandparents of cubs, or other non-related old folks from the church that have previous scouting experience, or just plain interest in this stuff, to help the pack.... as scouters or not. I asked our then CC who was in the knights, mens group, choir, and so on.... I mentioned it to the scouts and their parents, and even contacted others in the church.... and it's a big church.... and got ZERO responses. I was surprised.... figuring there would be at least a few of the scouts' grandparents that would jump at the chance to be more involved with their scout grandsons. Nope.

yes, I do. I have two daughters younger than Scout Son, the oldest of which is in her 2nd year of Brownies. She did the Daisy thing before that. Her first Daisy troop was a trainwreck, but her current troop is actually pretty good from what i can tell overall, from the stand point of having a good "patrol" going. their camping thus far has been cabins at the GS reservation, and sleepovers at churches and museums. She camped at almost every Cub outing we did, since we almost always did family events, and so I always found this thing frustrating. They do let one of the dads along sometimes since he stepped up, but they are generally not at all welcoming to any parent attendance. I hinted a time or two about my scouting experience and a willingness to help.... yeah, they're just not all that interested i think. My wife has their camping certification so she has done a bit with the troop, but i sense that she's treated as an outsider in a way too. I find it interesting how the GS Troop equates to what we call a patrol. It actually runs fairly tight I think but it is oh so leader dependent. Also, this is now becoming another source of problem for my family, as my youngest is now of the age to start Daisies..... so if we can even find a troop for her, there will be yet a 3rd troop for us to keep up with. Anyway, I do see the argument that boys need a place to be boys. i even see the argument against female scouters...... but I'm not so sure I agree with either. There can be problems on both accounts but those can also be managed. There could also be benefits with coed too. One of many being that my family could be a united Scouting family instead of scouts being a source of conflict. YES, scouting is often a source of conflict because of this silliness. That just aint right!!!

And without the english majors, the script writers couldn't have come up with the inspiration that was star wars, star trek, and so on.... So how is it they are left out of the steam? i wish I knew how to emed youtube.... https://youtu.be/V946uL0xMTA

because, after all, we want all those art majors out there to feel wanted...... But now how about those poor poor english majors? (or are they now called Language Arts or some some such thing?)

update: so the third in our trilogy of planning meeting happened last night. Things went much better & I'm encouraged again, that the SM has at least a vision. Still a few things that were hanging on too much to adult ways IMHO, but he (the SM) did an awesome job of kicking off the meeting and then leaving it to the scouts. He even set up an adult table..... the table was right next to the scouts and not in the opposite corner or next room, but hey.... I'll take it! I was disappointed though.... I could have stayed home. The only reason i went (as treasurer) was because I had thrown out a couple points to the SPL re $ stuff, for him to consider for his agenda..... then at the committee mtg the SM invited me to the SPL, while we were talking dues and such.... Turns out $ was not on the agenda and nobody asked me anything..... I considered interjecting but then decided what's the point? It's no big deal if the $ stuff isn't addressed right away since our dues are not due for a while besides, they will be having an election very soon so I might as well just work with the new group since the existing council wouldn't do anything with it anyway. again, yeah! I'm encouraged....

sidetrack...but that was the camp I went to as a scout!

meadow crashing?

that's a very nice post Barry. Lot of good thoughts in there..... this one is really a lessor point in it all I think, BUT it specifically opened my eyes to something I haven't thought about things in quite that way before I guess but this really could be a big factor in it all..... BUT there is a huge twist. What i am seeing this "problem" from isn't from the generic parent. It is instead coming from these trained and dedicated scouters. The active core of the group, the SM, ASM's, and CM... most of which are beaded. Almost without fail, they will echo agreement to almost anything mentioned about character, boy lead, and so on..... but in practice they seem to be missing a huge piece of the puzzle. I've gotta say that the generic parent of our troop really seems to not notice one way or the other. They drop off before, and pick-up after. Is that because they know the parent scouters have got it? They know that these trusted parents are running the show. and maybe that's why these scouters won't let go..... Maybe that's it ?!?

as far as size I bought this one https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KXEDW26/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1 and it was a good size. my tent was an older one, a bit smaller than the newer ones and the tie offs were limited.... I tied lopside off more to the center pole, so that made the net just barely reach the floor at the foot on the outer side. I think next year if I go I'll make up some poles instead of hanging it and hope the cot has the holes to accept them, or else lash the poles in as best i can.... http://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/us-military-issue-surplus-mosquito-net-with-poles-olive-drab-new?a=1909135

so the PLC is tomorrow, the SM invited me to attend during the earlier committee meeting, when i was letting them know what I had proposed as an option to the scouts regarding setting up patrol accounts...and also letting them know that as treasurer I intend to push to work with the scouts and not the parents. So anyway, i figure I will go even though I really do not want to.... But I'll plan on giving the scouts a spiel about scouts is something that they are doing for themselves, not something that is done for them that as PLC, they are not there to serve me as treasurer, but they are serving their scouts in doing the stuff that scouts do.... camping, advancement, and just plain old doing "scouting" with their friends and that I am only there to HELP them to do that so my standing question is this....what do you need from me? and I'll present my questions: We have this need to collect $x dues and the committee has decided to make it due by October 30. I'm not planning to work with your parents on that......Let me know how I can help you. and we have these bags of money you guys collect every meeting (they collect $1 per scout at each meeting that goes into a zipper bag for each patrol and to date has been kept by an adult). What do you guys want to do with it? How do you want to handle it? I gave the PLC a similar spiel last year, but left it open ended without the specific questions.

I posted about this in another thread, but to continue this story we had the "troop planning meeting" Now this meeting precedes the upcoming 1st PLC mind you everyone was invited....scouts, parents, scouters we had a very small sampling of scouts, all of the SM and ASM's, myself and one other committee member and a couple parents. So the SM sort of "introduces the SPL, reminds him that it is his meeting, and after a few awkward words form the SPL kicking off the meeting, he asked so does anyone have any input..... and then that was pretty much the last scout voice I heard. (a bit of an exaggeration, but not by much...) My son on the way to the meeting said he really didn't care about this stuff.... more or less saying that he is perfectly ok with going along for the ride, and that he's too new and too young to know. but then after the meeting he says to me before we are even out the door...."that was a waste of time" uggh!!! I was one of the few adults that did very little talking. A couple times trying to draw out the scouts, but not much more really. Once something was said about setting up some merit badge classes or themed meetings... this was all said from the adults, by the adults, and to the adults.....honestly I was trying to figure out how to politely leave the room at the time and only half paying attention because there were just way too many adults in there.... but in response the SM was went around the room asking for input..... and so i was specifically asked.... to which i just said that i think Merit Badges should be something initiated by the scouts. It should be something that they want to do. That they should be the ones searching this out.... and that if a group of them wanted to do it, then it would be great, and they should ask for the help. Oh the bulk of the adults squirmed....."ah, well I think it's important for us to present the opportunities....".... like that.... I'm definitely a minority. & I am oh so very frustrated.

yeah, I guess I wasn't as clear as i could have been. We are and were on the same page.... well except the bit about them being safe in an adult program....safe to do what they want anyway. I actually meant that I agreed with your points, but the rest of the story was that these natural tendencies are squashed by the adults.

ok interesting positions here.... and I have a recent first hand example... of all these perspectives! So my son...(who by the way is a bit younger at a week shy of 11, not 12) on the way to the pack's "planning meeting" (actually it's a troop, but I'm thinking it's as much pack as troop...) tells me as we are heading out the door when I ask him if he has any notes or thoughts to bring along... that he really just wants to go with whatever they do. I forget the exact words, but basically he admits to be new, young, and so he's perfectly ok with riding the bus instead of driving. which I think, that's perfectly fine at this age if that's what he wants... and I told him as much.... (to confirm @@Beavah's earlier point) but then, leaving the meeting (which was very much a pack planning meeting) he says to me "that was a waste of time"..."the adults did everything!" Which prompted a conversation about that whole thing, about why he might think that is and what the adults "should do"... basically he really does understand and in a way want to lead... or at least have the scouts doing it if not him.... (To confirm @@Stosh's earlier point) And so what I am observing here is that the scouts, both young and I can only assume the old too, WANT to lead, but CAN'T when being basically smothered by the adults! so I'm not so sure @@Eagledad's prepubescent boys are in fact actually "safe in an adult lead situation to do what they want to do, OR that his post puberty scouts actually do step out of the heard. In fact, what I am seeing is that the older scouts having been lead by the noses through scouting don't step out and don't lead at all, and the younger scouts have no idea how to step out in front of the well intentioned adults. UGH! I AM SO VERY FRUSTRATED! At least I had a good conversation with my son, fertilizing that seed of an idea that he actually can lead in scouts if he wants.... or that he could talk with the current older scouts about it.....that the program actually does allow it. Oh how I wish I could fix this, even just a little bit!

yeah Stosh I've had similar conversations with him a few times..... I've even talked with him about supporting his PL and making the PL look good. But as you point out he's smart. He also realizes that if he asked that question of the PL.... "what can I do to help you" he'll get nothing.... he knows that boy knows less about it all than he does (and he's right). So I have even suggested (this is all conversationally mind you) that if that's the case he might consider ways to lead that PL from behind. Or even ultimately forgetting all of that and just seeing that the job gets done..... that if the PL won't lead the APL should.... the bug is in his ear, now its up to him to figure it out. So that is why i was stepping back, and sort of making a philosophical observation about how these young men can be..... Even IF they know better and even IF they know would have more fun driving the bus often they are just content to sit in the back of the bus and go along for the ride....

no question really, just getting philosophical My son is just under 1 year in with the troop and I am finding it interesting that he's not really energized at all about doing anything towards suggesting activities or camps, patrol outings or activities, or anything really. He's just happy going along with whatever "they" plan.... He's never been what I would describe as "gung ho" really.... about advancement, awards, etc.... he's really just going along with the fun, even going back to cubs. So this isn't really a surprise He did surprise me early on when he volunteered to take the youth leader training, which the troop requires for any scout elected or appointed to a position... and this was before his patrol of new scouts was fully formed and they had not yet elected their PL. He WANTED to be PL. I can't see he knew what that even was, but he WANTED it. Anyway, his friend was elected PL, and so my son was appointed APL. I have really stayed hands off, except on occasion I have tried to coach and encourage him just a little. he really has done nothing. The PL even less. My son won't do anything because he is not the patrol leader and so it's not his job. I've tried to encourage him that if he wants PL he needs to show his scouts that he is there supporting them. Anyway, I'm just thinking how much more fun he might have if he and the other scouts would jump in, do some research, come up with and suggest the fun things that THEY WANT to do and make it happen.... bring it to the PLC, and do it.... and I know he has ideas.... there have been several times when he's asked, why don't we do X, Y, or Z? and I'll suggest that maybe "they" would if he suggested it.... but he never does. and I think it's a combination of things. 1) he knows the adults are planning and driving things, so why bother? 2) he really doesn't feel like part of the leadership. He's new, he's young, and he knows it. 3) he realizes that the APL really isn't the PL 4) he doesn't have a take charge nature, and is more of a follower in many ways.... I see this same thing out of all the scouts really.... BUT OH how much more fun they would have if they would get on board with the idea!

There was a thread here about a year ago, where as a WEBELOS ADL I was considering some sort of list for coaching the scouts on things they might be looking for or asking during troop visits. I ended up compiling quite a nice list based on input from you folks, as well as a lot of research and thinking.... In the end though, i dismissed it all since it's really so much more about the prospective scout being welcomed and being interested. they don't care about that stuff. If a potential recruit has no friends that he's tagging along with to a troop and if he has no history or allegiance to a given CO / meeting place.... (as in say a scout moving to a new city) then it's going to boil down to where he feels the most welcome. I'll agree with T2Eagle about the adult leader bios, aimed to the parents But the rest of it is having good scouts manning the table that are friendly and welcoming to a potential recruit and through word of mouth can put forward the image of fun This was a big focus that I had, really hoping that I could help steer my son to see this and find a troop that he would get the most out of.... but truthfully I'd bet most folks are in the same boat as us.... there really aren't any true fully boy led and really well run troops to pick from (based on geography alone), so you can't really get so hung up on that. I came to realize that as long as the scoutmasters are doing no harm, even though scout son will not be getting all that could theoretically be had from scouting, he'll at least be getting some good from it. & I'm constantly having to remind myself of that....

yeah, I'm pretty ure this was a different CO in a different city even.... a long time ago.... regardless, you make a valid point. Scuba, snorkel, kayaks/canoe trails, fishing though.... all things scouts can do anyway..... but I guess the point is they can focus more on it.

I were CC, i would steer things that way for sure.... but I'm not... so all I can do is advise every now and then.

I'm very interested in this, and I'm wishing you well with it! (I have two daughters coming up behind my scout son, and I'm also interested in the type of stuff that venturers would do. our SM is forming a venture patrol in the troop. He is opposed to a crew. Says he experienced years earlier when he was scouting with an older son, that a crew will take the older boys away from the troop and hurt the troop. I understand that logic, but it seems to me that maybe it just wasn't done right. Seems like it could work.... and it also seems to me that even if it did happen like this, there's no reason the troop couldn't continue on just fine anyway!... if done right..... Regardless, we are in Northern Florida, and not even close to mountains......and so the obvious venture stuff, such as great trails for distance hikes, climbing, rafting, and so on are out.... so I'm at a loss as to what a crew would do around here that isn't so different from what a troop can do already.... except the coed thing

yeah, the thing sticking in my craw, is illustrated well in this statement form the minutes that were just published from our committee meeting... Our primary fundraising for the Troop will be (X, Y, and Z) ..... and it goes on to bullet point the timeline for each, along with all sorts of details and finally ending with this bullet-point statement Need ideas for how to incent the boys to fundraise in the absence of being able to allocate sales directly to a boy, the funds have to be split and go to an event or just into the troop account. This will be topic of discussion at PLC. this being in response to the fact that we are eliminating the individual scout account credits from fundraising Keep in mind that this whole discussion and decision making process considers ZERO input from the scouts at all. what do they need money for? what do they want to spend? how much do they need? how would they like to go about raising money? are they at all interested in doing these chosen fundraising activities? do they have any ideas? NOBODY KNOWS! NOBODY CARES!

the biggest hits for me, were the games and relay races one comes to mind when we did a relay to get a balloon, bring it back and pop it by sitting on it.... I did a quick rain gutter regatta that was a hit, using pieces of swimming pool noodles as the boat hull. Something like 5 minutes to make the boats, then race.... no recording of the winners, etc.... just fun. I had mixed results with guest speakers.... we had a few bombs....but if you have a budget... I know of one large pack that used to bring in paid guests every meeting.... from the local science museum, magic, zoo, etc... In hind sight though, my biggest suggestion is to involve the scouts. Scouting is something that scouts do for themselves, not that adults do for them. (this mantra applies more to troop level scouting, but if I could go back to CM knowing what I know now this is what I would focus on..) scouts really enjoyed skits, but we'd lean on the Den Leaders to pull them together.... and they were less than enthusiastic about it so it was a mixed result.... so lean on the scouts to do their own things, instead of the adults doing it for them. If you don't already know about it, really pay attention here and through other study to the foundation of scouting.... the patrol method. Look for ways to apply it to cubs. lean on the WEBELOS scouts lean on all the dens to act more like boy-led patrols, even if that's not formally in the cub program. The boys will have more fun with it.