Trevorum

Not to split hairs (wait, that's what we do in this forum, isn't it? ), but we really aren't "ONE NATION", we are many nations - one of them is just much bigger and more powerful than all the others. I've always wondered what does through the minds of people who belong to the Navajo Nation when they say the pledge. Or the Choctaw Nation, or the Seminole Nation ...

Hello Island, Well in some forums that would be Cerified Safety Professionals, or Communicating Sequential Processes, or Conservation Security Programs, or Client Server Protocols, or California Science Projects, or ... But here it just means council shoulder patches.

A few years ago when I was planning out my ticket, I had the idea to develop a GIS data base for our district, plotting current Chartering Organizations, schools, and existing Scout units. I figured the resulting maps would be a great way to identify areas of the district that are under-served and where a new unit or two might find fertile recruiting ground. Add in a few data layers with base population and unit membership numbers and it could be a really powerful planning tool. This is the kind of thing that for-profit franchises do as a matter of routine ("Where shall we build our next McRestaurant?") but for which non-profits rarely have the resources to build and maintain. I never did pursue this idea for my ticket but I'm now wondering if this idea has any real merit or if it would just be 'over-engineering'. Does anyone have any experience with this kind of thing in Scouting?

Last election cycle, our Blackhawks voted to become the Primordial Soup patrol. Now, our Fox patrol has voted to rename themselves as the Dancing Penquins... I've heard that they have plans for a patrol T-shirt (that should be fun!) but I have no idea what they have in mind for a patrol patch.

Bob has a good point. If we are interested in discovering why boys leave the program, we need to talk to them and their parents. I hope we all try to do this. However, the larger issue is why many, many boys aren't interested in joining in the first place. Certainly, Scouting has always appealed to a minority of boys, for one reason or another. However, our 'market share' is much smaller now than in earlier decades. Why is this? I don't think Scouting has changed all that much. Rather, I think society has changed. Society has become faster, jazzier, and more complicated. As a result, Scouting is increasingly percieved by todays youth as old fashioned and conservative. One result of this is that it becomes attractive to more conservative families. And this creates a positive feedback loop. My understanding of early 20th C history suggests that originally, Scouting was percieved as a liberal social movement and was therefore somewhat 'dangerous'. No more. Nevertheless, there will always be those boys who like camping and outdoors adventures. As long as BSA retains the outdoor method, we'll always have a steady supply of boys who like 'bugs, knives, and sharp sticks'. It's our job to have a good program ready for them.

"They have a finger up at all times, testing the winds." Great. You've gone and told everyone to blow even harder!

Does anyone know anything about the 'Ranch Hands' program at Philmont? I can't seem to find any current info online; a few outdated pages are bare summaries of requirements with no info on the application procedure, calendar for 2006, etc. Any information would be most appreciated!

In the classic alternative history by Robert Sobel, For Want of a Nail, George Washington merits a single footnote, being mentioned as one of the ringleaders of the traitors who were hanged in London after the unplaesantness in the colonies was brought under control. I highly recommend this deeply thoughtful work on American 'history'. See http://www.changingthetimes.co.uk/bookreviews/for_want_of_a_nail.htm, or http://www.alternatehistory.com/gateway/reviews/FWOAN-review.html or other reviews.

This is fun: finding an issue for which I passionately disagree with packsaddle! With due resepct towards your argument for Lee's betrayal of his country and sworn duty, I think the same argument could be made for George Washington. There was the time when George was a loyal subject of his country with a sworn alliegance to his king. Like Bob, he, too, made the difficult choice to betray his country and take up arms against it. The major difference of course, was that George ended up on the winning side while Lee ended up on the loosing side. Today we don't care that George Washington was considered a traitor by the British. Had his side lost, he most certainly would have been hanged. Instead, he is a hero of the side that won. Had the south won the War Between the States, Lee would have been championed as a hero and the saviour of the South. And slavery in the South would have been ended in another way at another time for other reasons. As I alluded to previously: "History is written by the winners."

As quoted by Semper, Lee says, "The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, physically, and socially. The painful discipline they are undergoing is necessary for their further instruction as a race, and will prepare them, I hope, for better things." While clearly an apologetic excuse for slavery based on "The ends justifies the means", this quotation is also an excellent example of the 19th philospophy we now refer to as "The White Mans Burden". Lee was a product of his time and culture. While he was most certainly a racist, he was also a compassionate man and evidently struggled with the contradictions he saw between his society and the teachings of Christianity. At the same time, many fundamentalist Christians in the South were twisting biblical quotations to justify slavery.

Welcome to the forum, teleserv! For any and all patch information, check with the folks on Patch-L. Goto http://www.gilwell.com/patchl/ to join this email list.

Start at www.inquiry.net. Always lots of good stuff there.

Neil, I am surprised at you. Every Scout knows that burning water is easily accomplished. However, you must first filter the water through a left-handed smoke-sifter.

"... a traitor to his country ... Pack, isn't this perspective a classic case of history being written by the winners? Had the rebels won, Lee would have lionized as a hero to his country

I am not a biblical scholar by any means, but Roosters interpretation makes a lot of sense to me. This commandment has historically been interpreted to mean: "Do not take the life of another human being (unless necessary to preserve your own life or unless you are legally empowered to do so by a secular authority)".

Great data! Of the 15 most earned MBs for 2004, 12 were Eagle required, representing 38% of all MBs earned for that year. The only optional MBs in the top 15 were Leatherwork, Rifle Shooting, and Woodcarving. Of these 15 most earned MBs for 2004, seven are also in the top 15 for the 95 cumulative years (1910 to date). Previously popular MBs which have dropped out of the top 15 are Cooking (dropped from #4 to #26), Canoeing (#8 to #18), Fire Safety (#10 to #45), Home Repairs (#11 to #68), Pioneering (#12 to #27), and Basketry (#13 to #27). Cooking, previously Eagle required, is now being taken few far fewer Scouts. Basketry is actually becoming less popular. Of the more than 110 million MBs ever earned, 10% are no longer offered. Other than the 'unclassified' MBs, which as NJ notes includes many agricultural specialties, the most popular MBs which were eventually discontinued were Machinery (#82 most popular, 1910 to date), Masonry (#86), Rabbit Raising (#91), Botany (#103), and Beekeeping (#113). IMHO, the data present a fascinating perspective on American life and economy during the 20th Century, mirroring a shift in lifeways and occupations from the agricultural and mechanical to service and technological. If the raw data behind the collapsed 1910-date category are available, there is an excellent thesis or dissertation in here.

TP, it really is gratifying to know that the training makes a difference. With your permission, I'd like to use this story as a SM minute.

stlscouter, Your statements are somewhat difficult to parse and I'm not certain what it is you are really trying to say. So please forgive me if I am wrong here, but it seems to me that you are convinced that there is some kind of inherent conflict between religion and science. I'm sorry you feel that way, because I see no conflict at all. If that is your worldview, then I (and/or others) will never be able to convince you otherwise.

I'd like to find out what approaches are taken (if any) by your troop towards incomplete MBs. We have one gung-ho SA who diligently tracks all of the incomplete MBs and periodically reminds boys of their outstanding requirements. On the one hand it's nice to have such a data base on a troop-wide level, but on the other hand I strongly feel it is the boy's responsibility to know what they need to do and to take action to finish up, if that is what they choose to do. This SA and I constantly have a good-natured philosophical disagreement on this issue. Before I became SM, I realized at one point that my son had half a dozen incomplete merit badges. Some of these were two years old and were getting more stale by the day. I remember thinking at the time that this was a waste of effort and that he really should try to complete these. ("Look at this son - you only have this ONE requirement left for Mammal Study and you'll have another merit Badge!" My thinking has radically changed. I no longer think of incompletes as 'lost opportunities'. After all, supposedly, the boy learned something while pursuing the badge, and that is not negated by the lack of one or two missing requirements. So what if he'll never get that Architecture MB, or Mammal Study, or Music, or ...

E-KY, I think it's probably simply a matter of 'killing two birds with one stone'. But I see your point, I too think that at times we tend to overemphasize the advancement method.

Hunt, This religion (or more precisely, philosophical system) already exists! It is called Solopsism (see http://mb-soft.com/believe/txo/solipsis.htm and other similar sites. There are probably thousands of these congregations worldwide, but unfortunately for you, each has a membership of precisely one. You'll have to start your one congregation.

Fuzzy, a very ineresting post and I look forward to the replies! However - merely as an aside - let me mention that your framing of the question presupposes that other faiths indeed have, "sacred readings". While this is true for the Abrahamic tradition (this is why Jews, Christians, Muslims are together called 'People of the Book'), the same is not true for all other faiths.

Thanks, guys. Reason for my asking: our troop just had our annual "blue sky" meeting where we toss around ideas for next year's activities. One of the ideas was the Lexington Live Aboard at Corpus Christi -- I have a patch from four years ago and I was thinking of sewing it on to drum up interest ... Fred, if your troop hasn't done the Lexington, it's a great weekend!

AHG Mom, Please forgive my bad manners for not welcoming you to the forum before starting a debate! I was plain ol' lazy in not noticing your number of posts. Generally, we do try to be more courteous than that. While we do enjoy a lively exchange of opinions here, please be assured that at heart we are all Scouts and Scouters.

eisley, Desert Pacific just renamed itself to San Diego Imperial; same with Boulder Dam to Las Vegas Area. scouter&mom, thanks for the information! I'll be sure to keep an eye peeled for the new patch! Any word yet on the Sinnissippi/Four Lakes merger?