Trevorum

But Fuzzy, you gotta remember that Roy gets 40 hours a week, while WE only get ONE hour ...

Hugs, This is quite fascinating to me. Your English skills are very good! But I am still not understanding about 10-15% of what you are saying. For example - what do you mean when you say 'pedagogy'? Somehow this doesn;t quite translate into English. Ahh. Religion! Here in the US, the BSA is completely non-sectarian, meaning that we accept people of ALL faiths. The only rule is that Scouts must believe in God (or 'gods', or a 'higher power'). Some troops are segregated with only a single religion represented, but MOST troops have boys of a variety of religions. For example, my troop of 75 boys meets every week at a Presbyterian (Protestant) church, but we also have Catholics, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Unitarian-Universalists, and Wiccans in the troop, as well as other kinds of Christians such as Latter Day Saints (Mormons), Baptists, Lutherans, and others. What do French Scouts do for adventure?

No. Technically yes, but more precisely, 'decompose'. Neither; you're just getting old. Are you pulling my chain or were you really asleep in high school science class?

Very interesting. I think, in general, we Americans are more prudish about sex than you Europeans. As I said, there is much debate in the BSA on this issue. Many of us feel the same way you do, but the big BSA executives (who make the policies) seem to be influenced by the conservative religions. How about girls in scouting? Here, girls can not be members of BSA until they are 14, at which time they may join BSA's group for 14-20 year olds, called Venturers. If the girls are younger, they must join the Girl Scouts (not Boy Scouts). Younger boys (8-11) can join Cub Scouts. I assume there is some similar age group in France?

For me, this is always one of the key elements in an Eagle SM conference. I like to probe this issue in some detail with the candidate, asking him if he is ready for this challenge: does he realize that from here on, HIS actions will reflect personally on ME and on all scouts. He can walk away now and 20 years from now people will never know that he ever WAS a Boy Scout, but if he goes before that Board of Review and passes, his status in the eyes of the world will be FOREVER changed. It's a big challenge for a teenager, but I've never yet had one walk away.

Ideally, every den should have a Den Chief! While possible, I think it would be unusual for one fellow to be a Den Chief for the same group of Cubs for several years. The scout would probably also want to experience leadership of his peers as a PL, ASPL, SPL etc., and as we all know (wink) wearing more than one hat in scouting can be tough. Where I am, we encourage boys to reach 1st Class before becoming Den Chiefs.

hmmm... somehow I'm still confused about the differences ... But it is interesting to know that youth in France have a choice of organizations. In the USA, the competing scouting movement was stifled in 1919 (or thereabouts) when the courts gave the BSA the sole use of the name "Scouts". As you may or may not know, the BSA does not allow membership to homosexuals, saying these people are not moral. This has caused much debate. How is this issue handled in France?

I'm asking because our troop has somehow gotten a reputation for recruiting outside of our territory (whatever that is). The truth is that we while have close but not exclusive ties to several packs (conducting cross-over ceremonies, providing den chiefs and the like), we accept cubs from all over who just visit and end up staying because they like our program. The district has plans for starting this new pack at a school whose pack folded some yaers ago. The old pack was sponsored by the school, but because that is now verboten, they are looking for a new CO. I heard through the grapevine that they have recieved a favorable response from our CO. Presuming that we would be first in line to tie in with this pack, I have offered our services to the district exec. to help out with the round up. Thanks for the thoughts.

LOL! I have visions of these skimpily uniformed hat-check girls, sternly demanding to see one's claim ticket!

Fred, only your friends will tell you ... ... massive cut-n-paste jobs are tiresome in a forum. If you want to bring attention to an article, just post the link with a short description. Readers can follow up or not as they choose.

How many of you are associated with packs or troops that share the same number (Pack 123 and Troop 123)? Do these units share a special relationship or not? My understanding is that, other things being equal, packs that share unit numbers with troops generally have a "farm team" type of relationship with the troop, especially if they are chartered by the same CO. Our district is starting a new pack with the same number as the troop I'm with. The pack will meet at a local elementary school but will be chartered by our CO. I just want to make sure I don't step out of line by assuming we can move in and establish a special relationship with this new pack

But meamemg has a good point. Semper, are in the Coat guard, too?

whoaa, dude! I, too, am from the land of sunshine! Awesome! Well at least in an earlier incarnation. I was originally in the old San Fernando Valley Council, but now I am a Texan. Welcome to the forum!

Very interesting. In France, there is no monopoly on Scouting as there is here in the USA. Also, some of the organizations are more clearly sectarian (only for one religion) than here. Please tell me if I understand your descriptions correctly: 1) The Scouts of France is for Catholic youth and does not use the patrol system; 2) The Unity Scouts of France - also Catholic (?) but uses the patrol system and is closer to the original Baden-Powel model; 3) The Scouts of Europe - also traditional, but non-sectarian (?) At the WOSM web site, I found 5 organizations for France: Fdration du Scoutisme Franais Les Eclaireuses et Eclaireurs de France Les Eclaireuses et Eclaireurs Israelites de France Eclaireuses et Eclaireurs Unionistes de France Les Scouts de France Which are the three you mention?. and what are the other two???

OGE, I haven't heard that rumor and I suspect it is just smoke. I was fortunate enough to attend a reception and dinner with Mr. Williams last month and I witnessed no bodyguards. Or if there were, they all were 50+ y.o. silver beavers.

I also agree with Semper (always spot-on!). In my experience, there is always a dynamic tension between achieving the goal of a boy led troop and avoiding the trap that Eagle76 describes. Moreover, it is not an issue that can be "solved" - rather it is an issue that continually re-emerges and needs attention "again", as the troop leadership changes, both youth and adult. I never cease to be amazed how the troop is constantly re-inventing itself as faces come and go. I think the solution is for the current leaders to always ensure that the next crop of leaders recieves the appropriate training as soon as possible (I can just feel Bob White beaming at me).

The problem with analogies is that one is always tempted to take them too far so that the original idea is lost. Personally, I've never seen the point in cruises. If God had wanted us to spend days and days crossing the ocean, he wouldn't have given us jet aircraft.

Hugs, I'd very much like to know about Scouting in France. It would be great if you could spin off a new thread (see the link in the lower right hand corner of every dialogue box) and tell us more. In the meantime, our friend Semper Paratus (Latin for the BSA Motto of 'Be Prepared' is well known here for his clever word games. With "Sor bonnes", he was making a word play on "sore bones", meaning his rear end was tired of sitting and he wanted to get up and do something else (all virtual, of course!). My reply word play ("Toulouse" meaning "to loose") fell flat (wasn't very funny). I can see we will have to be careful of word play and using American slang when chatting with you! I'm glad you like Texas. We do, too. Yes, it's a very big place and we don't really ride horses to work anymore. The "Don't mess with Texas" slogan is also a word play. It means first, don't litter in Texas, but the slang meaning is sort of a macho boast sort of like don't start a fight with us, either, or we'll open a can of ... (nevermind). (gee, these things sound sort of lame [dumb] when you have to explain them.) Don't worry about the differences in time zones between France and the US. No one here expects immediate replies (or any replies at all for that matter) to a posting. When you have something to contribute to a discussion, just chime in (say what is on your mind) regardless of what time it is on either side of the Atlantic. One last word. As I'm sure you know, internet discussions can get pretty heated at times. While we are all Scouts here and we all try to be respectful of others, it doesn't hurt to have a thick skin (umm.. don't get offended too easily by anything). Again, welcome to our forum.

"Am I misinformed?" Yes. Rocks don't evolve. They erode. Come back in 1,000 years and the rock will be a handful of pebbles scattered downslopes, some sand downstream, and fine dust blown the world over.

"... I believe that the Martians are in control of the Earths destiny, and I see doing my duty to that higher power as clearing a landing path in my uncles cornfields" uh-oh! NOW you've done it! You've gone and insulted the Scientologists. Now we'll be deluged with sporgeries

I'm throwing in with Kahuna on this one.

Maybe they agree with its principles but not with its principals ...

Let's debate how many angels can sit on a pin, OK? Although I am not Buddhist, I doubt one would baldly say, as you suggest, "God does not exist." Rather, the Buddhists I know are much more apt to say, "I do not believe in your God". Do you see the difference? (It's important.) Your God exists for you, certainly, but not for him. That is not a scientific possibility of course, but we are talking about belief systems, not empirical reality. Importantly, BSA has NEVER insisted upon any narrow definition of God, even while the majority of members have always be Judeo-Christian. Historically, many unit scouters have assumed this to be the case, as you do, and have created more restrictive membership policies on the unit level, but they have been, and are, wrong in this. I assure you that if you deny an Eagle candidate (or any rank for that matter) his BoR because he does not believe in your God or he does not concieve of god in the same way that you do, his protest will be upheld by National and he will be awarded the rank. Again, if you are uncomfortable with BSA policy on this, you are free to lobby National for a tightening of membership policies.

Alas, I fear our American humor may be lost on our new friend Hugs. Thank goodness we don't have any of those wanky Brits amongst us (no offense, Eamonn)

Fred, Respectfully, that is the problem. Many, many people ARE voting with their feet by quitting and by not joining in the first place. Instead of growing and getting stronger each year, BSA is shrinking. No matter what we do at the unit level to provide a quality program, the overall movement is on an unhealthy course and the highly paid executives in Irving do not seem to be correcting the problems.