Trevorum

Lisa, Our troop is pretty large and has great parent participation but I don't see how that would make a difference. Our idea is to create an opportunity for individual families to prepare for an unexpected disaster, experience some of the hardships in a safe and non-threatening manner, and then learn from the experience and become more prepared for a real event. This would be an experience on the family level, not as a troop. Our goal is to get the boys to take the lead in planning for the weekend shut-down ("Mom, do we have enough candles?"), helping out under the 'primitive' conditions ("Let me show you how we use the 3-bucket method for washing dishes!") and then learning from the weekend ("Let's make sure we have enough batteries next time!") I am hoping tht if we pitch this right, we can get "buy in" from a lot of the families. it would be completely voluntary of course and non-participation would have no adverse effect on the Scout.

FireKat & Stosh - that would just be another campout, eh? Our idea is to have whole familes participate in this, even if they are not normally "camping families". Give everyone a taste of what would happen if the power supply was disrupted at home. Give them some things to think about what worked and what didn't. GW - that's a good idea! Just leave the fridge breaker on (doh!) And I like that idea of a tie around the handles. We could give each Scout a colored plastic zip-tie to use as a "seal". I imagine we'd get a lot of up-front resistance by moms and dads ("What does this have to do with Boy Scouts?"). Any ideas on how to pitch the idea to families?

LV, Old gods never die, they are just forgotten. I like to imagine that somewhere, Loki is cheating at cards with Baal while El and Ra just laugh and shake their heads. Zeus sits and watches the mist, patiently waiting for Jehovah to arrive.

A couple of us SMs have been tossing around the idea of some hands-on training in Emergency Preparedness. One of the more "outside-the-box" ideas is to have each family - led by their Scout - agree to go completely off the grid for an entire weekend. This would be to simulate a natural disaster. The family would agree to trip the breaker and go cold turkey for 48 hours, Friday dusk to Sunday dusk. With some advance planning (and springtime weather!) we think this shouldn't be too great a trial for most families. Candles and flashlights, propane fuel & stove for cooking, etc. (No TV would be a big plus!) It could actually be a fun learning experience for the entire family. However, we see the biggest impediment to getting families to opt into this experiment would be their refrigerator (and possibly freezer). No one would want their food to spoil needlessly of course and we think they wouldn't want to "trip the breaker" I'd appreciate your thoughts on this idea. Do you think families would want to do this or is it just too totally crazy? -trevorum

Welcome to our campfire, Artigas! Stick around and share your experiences. FScouter - terrific answer. I'd like to paraphrase that from time to time. (You must have sat on EBoRs before!)

Speaking of totally mad... BLOOD & THUNDER PROPHET: "And the bezan shall be huge and black, and the eyes thereof red with the blood of living creatures, and the whore of Babylon shall ride forth on a three-headed serpent, and throughout the lands, there'll be a great rubbing of parts. Yeeah ..." FALSE PROPHET: "...For the demon shall bear a nine-bladed sword. Nine-bladed! Not two or five or seven, but nine, which he will wield on all wretched sinners, sinners just like you, sir, there, and the horns shall be on the head, with which he will ... " BORING PROPHET: "There shall, in that time, be rumours of things going astray, erm, and there shall be a great confusion as to where things really are, and nobody will really know where lieth those little things wi-- with the sort of raffia work base that has an attachment. At this time, a friend shall lose his friend's hammer and the young shall not know where lieth the things possessed by their fathers that their fathers put there only just the night before, about eight o'clock. Yea, it is written in the book of Cyril that, in that time, shall the third one ... "

Calico, you've posed a very interesting question. Is Santa Claus (or the Tooth Fairy) a deity? Anthopologists routinely do this sort of classification among "primitive" peoples. There are two ways of looking at it. One: do the people themselves consider the being to be a divine entity (ie, a "god'). This is an "emic" (or insider's) viewpoint. Two: does the being posess qualities which the anthopologist himself would consider divine. This is an "etic" (or outsider's) viewpoint. In the case of Santa Claus, the outside observer may well classify him as a god, since (as you note) Santa Claus is supernatural, possesses super-human powers and abilities, and is routinely supplicated for favors. On the other hand, I believe that few people within the culture would identify Santa Claus as a god for this label is reserved for sacred beings and Santa Claus is profane (along with the Tooth Fairy and the Great Pumpkin). Of course this begs the question as to how BSA would react if someone were to claim to belong to the First Church of the North Pole.

OGE, as I recall, the Ethiopian Church was founded before the canon, before the Catholic Church was Catholic.

Have at them Aggies, FireKat! Being neither Aggie nor Longhorn, I just stay out of the line of fire. Gotta say though, I think those Aggies usually take themselves waaaay too seriously ...

LV, while you're right in that they all belong to the same general class of supernatural/mythological beings, none of those beings is a deity. Therefore, I think the answer would be, "no". However, I think that any such being that is worshipped or venerated in any way would qualify. For example, maybe a belief in djinn would meet the BSA requirement. I don't know if it's ever been tested. (This message has been edited by Trevorum)

Howdy back at'cha, April. Welcome to the forums (from a fellow Texan). Your son's a bear this year, heh? He's gonna have a GREAT time in Scouting! (you too!)

"... his son will (and does) have the ability to decide for himself what he chooses to believe." Balderdash. After two decades of indoctrination (some would say 'brainwashing') few people are truly able to make their own decisions in these matters. That's precisely why the big (and "successful") religions put such a great emphasis on "catechesis".

OK. So if I may then be permitted to rephrase the original question using Pappy's guidance, it comes out thusly: "How much should faith pervade and permeate Scouting?" In my mind the answer is clear: to the extent that the Chartering Organization wishes (and within the "strictly non-sectarian" limitations imposed by National policy). In Pappy's 100% Catholic unit, religion is likely much more pervasive than in my unit with 4 or 5 major world religions being represented. Pappy's approach would no more work in my troop than vice versa. So that's a non-issue. I do disagree with his argument that faith must be based on childhood indoctrination of dogma. I believe that each person must be free to experience their own spiritual journey. I don't consider this to be a "crap shoot", but if the expected result of the journey is pre-determined (ie, the parents' religion), then I can see how the process would be less reliable than childhood indoctrination. But, I've been around this issue before (memorably with Rooster - sigh) and I don't expect to convince Pappy to let his son becaome a Buddhist if that what he wants to do. This disagreement just comes down to different parenting styles.

OK, Beav, I'll be patient. I'm genuinely baffled as to what you mean by "inform Scouting". That has the sound of meaning, but is elusively slippery. Can you rephrase that question?

Arguing with a lawyer is like mud wrestling with a pig. After a while you realize that the pig actually enjoys it.

A mother and her little girl were paying respects at the local cemetery. Walking through the rows of tombstones, the little girl asked, "Mommy, do they ever bury two people in the same grave?" "No, sweetie, why do you ask?" "This one says, 'Here lies a lawyer and an honest man.'"

At a recent Webelos Woods, I recall seeing a young mom wearing pink camo. I swear, pink camo pants. I remember wondering if her Webelos was embarrassed. She actually looked pretty hot.

What do you call 1,000 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean? ... A good start!

Welcome to the forums, purpledragon! Sounds like you have a couple of Scouts to be proud of! And its volunteers like you that keep the program humming. We're glad you've joined us.

Ahh- that is a surprisingly interesting question. And, as Merlyn suggests, not one that is easily resolved. The answer largely depends on useage of the word "religion", which means different things to different people. Nonetheless, I suspect that the answer may range somewhere between "hundreds" and "thousands". On the other side, I would guess that the number of non-monotheistic religions is in the several thousands. Not that it really has any bearing on the BSA's contorted interpretation of the DRP.

"The Scoutmaster conference should be as unformal as possible." My favorite SM conference was held up in a tree. The fellow had a reputation for climbing trees whenever and wherever. We ate a few pecans and had a good chat. Lisa, I see your SM's thinking on this (get the fellow to do some advance thinking on tough issues so he's more ready to dialogue) but I personally wouldn't take this approach. I feel if the SM knows enough about the candidate, he should be able to get the fellow to open up and think about stuff with no advance preparation. Also, while the "1 page report" tactic might work fine for one SM, I can see how it could be seriously abused (adding to the requirements) by his successor.

I've no problem with BSA declaring itself to be a religious organization. The issue, as I see it, is BSA's claim to be "non-sectarian" while at the same time making specific items of theological dogma as membership requirements. As we have discussed here before, many devoutly religious people do not believe in a supreme being. Belief in the western notion of monotheistic god is not an element of many faiths. I think this whole situation is a result of BSA policy makers - none of whom evidently knew much about religious diversity - trying to reverse engineer the DRP. It won't work, but no one wants to admit that because they have gone so far down the religious path already. We are stuck with a white elephant in the middle of the room. (No disrepect meant to Ganesha!)

LV, I agree with Calico, GW and pack. There will ALWAYS be morons in government. We can only vote.

BW, you have a point, but I believe what you intended to say was, "The responsibility for the selection of quality leaders cannot be delegated away to anyone." In fact, the selection of those leaders can be delegated and often is. As you note, "work" can be delegated, but not responsibility. (This message has been edited by Trevorum)

That'sa one big patrol! didja notice the campaign hat on the moose?