Trevorum

jblake47 writes, "Just because 3rd grade aged students cannot sit in on 5th grade classes does not make it age discrimination. Just because men can't go into women's bathroom does not make it sex discrimination." This is incorrect. Both of these cases are clear cases of discrimination. However, they are socially acceptable and - more importantly - legal discrimination. This is not merely semantics. All people discriminate all the time on one basis or another. In choosing friends, food, clothes, cars. Some discrimination is good and we need to keep this point in mind, that not all discrimination is illegal nor socially unacceptable. However, the larger point is that some kinds of discrimination - while perfectly legal - may not be ethical or moral. Think of the person who was denied employment because they were a different race or religion, or perhaps because they were in a wheelchair. Yes, these particular legal injustices have been remedied in recent years. But there are still other legal injustices, types of discrimination against whole classes of people which, while perfectly legal, are still immoral. In my opinion, it is heinously immoral to tell a 13 year old boy that he is incapaple of being "the best type of citizen" simply because of a genetic quirk over which he had no control. Similarly, I believe it is grossly unethical to tell an 8 year old that he is not allowed to become Cub Scout because of the beliefs of his parents.

GMitch Thanks for your clarifications. It sounds to me like there is little difference in these matters between your troop and a mainstream troop. Every boy is welcome to join as long as he abides by the Scout Oath and Scout law (no 'cussing like a sailor' in our troop either!) and every boy has a chance of becoming SPL, although some boys have a higher probability than others.

emb021, that's a neat idea - where did your lodge find the designs for your state's quarter that were not used?

Hello Hamer, Do you have any Columbia Montour CSPs to trade? I have the S4 but would like to find an S2 and/or S7.

Stosh, you're absolutely right. We have a Scouts own on most Sundays. However, I was startled to learn that such a service is useless for some scouts as far as their religious obligations go. I know that some fellows attend a service on Sunday evenings but I was not aware that that it was a "requirement". Our LDS fellows can't camp Sunday mornings and so generally depart camp on Saturday night.

Well, I try to learn about, and be respectful of, various religious beliefs even though I don't share those beliefs. I would appreciate a PM from any members who can answer my questions. I am interesed in learning whether some scouts do not camp with our troop because of unspoken concerns about missing their religious obligations, whether on Friday, Saturday, or Sunday.

BobWhite says, "A non-denominational or interfaith worship service does not meet the religious obligations of Catholics, Jews, Mormons, Islamics, and many other faiths." This is interesting and new to me. Can you elaborate a bit? What are the religious obligations and what are the consequences of not meeting them? Is this a sin to Catholics? (Do Jews have "sin"?). We have never had an issue with Sunday camping in our religiously diverse troop, but I'd like to be more informed about the issue. Maybe this is a reason why some fellows don't camp much (aren't allowed to) and I am just oblivious. If this is a reason, I'd like to be able to direct the family to another unit.

I think the word you are looking for is "arbitrary". It's all arbitrary.

Indeed, large portions of the modern world calculate dates from the Hegira, or when Muhammad and his followers retreated to Medina in CE622.

As I recall, the Julian Day system starts in 4000 BC or thereabouts, doesn't it? At least it avoids the equally arbitrary BC/AD confusion. Someone told me we're coming up on some big odometer rollover - 2 million days? 3 million? You might be interested to learn that in archeology, the AD/BC distinction is completely avoided (except in historical research) and dates are generally expressed in years before the "present". However, "the present" is forever frozen in time as AD 1950. Turns out that all the atomic tests have thrown off the whole radiocarbon curve since then. So 500 years BP is actually AD 1450, not as you might think AD 1508.

One of the most interesting things about that whole calendar shift is that it took place at different times in different countries. Russia didn't go Gregorian until after the revolution. And by then it was +13 days instead of the +11 that got tacked onto George et al. So for several centuries both systems were used and folks had to indicate under which system a date was calculated - old style or new style. Must have been confusing.

Ilk aren't destructive - we're subversive.

Give it up, pack. You're too amiable to ever be a curmudgeon; just an irritating, effete liberal. Me, I'm satisfied with being a "troublemaker".

Gentlemen, let's not let the recent excitement over in the Issues and Politics forum bleed over here into Camping and High Adventure! I greatly appreciate the advice from all knowlegeable sources. Regarding emergency glucose and bears, we will consult with the Philmont medical staff and also with the Rangers and will make our own decision.

I prefer the classically simple Ilkish. Definitely not Ilkans, or (god forbid) Ilkians.

Count me in as part of the "ilk".

fwiw, I've been referred to Mr. Gavin Falkner, Philmont Health Officer, who has told me, "Putting sugar tabs in a boot at night are good so you can get to them. ... This takes care of the bear issues."

Gern, thanks so much! I will PM you.

Skeptic, thank you for that link! That is the most informative essay I have read about the history of racism within the BSA. I will bookmark that site. "The Boy Scouts of America never drew the color line, but the movement stayed in step with the prevailing mores."

The MD suggested an unopened tube of cake frosting gel, but you think that would still be a smellable, huh? I assume that insulin is a smellable also? Gern, was your son OK with keeping his meds up in the bag at night? That makes me a little nervous. My son hasn't had a low (or high) in the middle of the night, but up at Philmont he'll be on a vastly different daily caloric schedule.

We have a couple of fellows with Downs Syndrome in our troop. When they joined I was SM and I met with the Council special needs coordinator. I, too, wanted to know how much "leeway" I had in implementing the advancement method for these fellows. I was handed the BSA publication mentioned by OGE and was also told - paraphrasing - "as much leeway as you want." For rank advancements through Life, signing is at the discretion of the Scoutmaster. The key is to remember that advancement is a method to achieve the goals of Scouting, and is not an objective in and of itself. (edited typo)(This message has been edited by trevorum)

When I was a committee member, I liked to ask questions like the following. Why are you a Boy Scout? What do you like best about Scouting? Least? What do you like best about our troop? Least? What can we do to make our troop better? What do you think is the most important point of the Scout Law? If you could add a 13th point, what would it be? Why? What did you cook on your last campout? How is your Patrol doing? Are you having any troubles? What was your good turn yesterday? Why do you think people respect Eagle Scouts more than other folks?

For those of you who are diabetic and have backpacked in bear country, what do you recommend in the way of emergency glucose that can be kept in the tent at night? What isn't smellable? Thanks!

Actually, Washington was born on Feb 11, 1732. Twenty years later the books were cooked, and his birthday was changed to Feb 22.

They're also amazed when I tell them there was a time when women were not allowed to be Scout leaders (except as Cub Scout Den Mothers). They are amazed, of course, because all this was way back when only white males were allowed to run for President. (oops, typo)(This message has been edited by Trevorum)