Trevorum

A lot of folks in uniform do NOT consider exclusionary membership to be a core BSA value. "BSA is a fine organization. I dont agree with all of their choices, but I do what I can to influence them. There are a couple of policies I think are bone-headed but I put up with them because the kids learn a lot and really enjoy the fun. I dont agree with everything but I stay because the many positives far outweigh the few negatives. I disagree with a few of their positions but in general, our values overlap significantly. Some of the people are on the fringe but most are pretty reasonable. "

I used to be a member of NOW, despite the handicap of having only one X chromosome.

Thank goodness! From the thread title, I thought it was something serious, like stopping patch collecting!

I've heard that expressed as, "Ask forgiveness, not permission."

"... those squirmy little 6-10 year olds ..." This vivid image proves to me that Lisabob has been there and knows what she's talking about.

LH, I have no idea. Some "official" BSA policies seem to be hard to track down in print and even harder to interpret. If you find out, let us all know.

"Well, hello Billy! I see you've just earned your Arrow of Light award and have graduated from Webelos. That's great! I'm glad you want to join our troop. You'll have a lot of fun in Boy Scouts. Now before I can sign your application, I just have a few questions for you. Standard stuff, really. First, do you believe in any sort of god or gods? You do? That's great! Next, are you a homosexual? What's that? Well, homosexual means you "like" boys more than girls. What's that, you're only 10 years old and don't really like girls at all? Hmmm... let me see if I can explain this. Boy Scouts won't admit boys who like other boys more than they like girls. No, we aren't supposed to dislike each other, just not like each other too much. It's hard to explain. Tell you what, I'll just sign your application now and if you ever start liking boys more than girls, you just tell me and I'll kick you out then, OK?" (This message has been edited by Trevorum)

Several years ago I was putting in limestone rock wall in our garden. Halfway into the job, as I was showing my son about footers, line levels, mortar mix and the like, I thought, "I'll bet there is a merit badge for this stuff!" There was - Masonry - but, alas, it had been dropped just a few years earlier. We finished up the wall and he learned about masonry skills, but no merit badge.

mtm - that is an excellent idea. I'm going to suggest it to our committee. Thanks!

I see Scouting as providing three equally important opportunities in the dimension of religion and spirituality. First, the Scout has a chance to learn more about his family's faith by pursuing the religious awards program. These excellent curricula will often be more in depth and more thought provoking than what he gets in his regular go-to-Sunday-meetin' religious education. As has been noted, these programs are optional. Second, at least in pluralistic units, the Scout has an opportunity to experience tolerance towards other religions. A Scout from a Christian family may well have no other opportunity to sit next to a fellow from a Hindu family than in a Scout's own ceremony. That simple experience is incalculably valuable and will carry through to his adult perspectives towards his fellow man. Underlying both of these is the expectation that the Scout will grow in reverence - not only towards his particular diety(s) but also with respect to our natural world and all of life. The combination of these opportunities is unique to Scouting - The fellow won't get them in sports, band, Awanas, 4H, or any other youth activity.

flop, flop.

Tell that to Regan MacNeil!

Heh, heh ... Now, you can't expect me to just sit here, can you? I never thought I'd be a Texan. Born and bred in the heart of the Southern California Wilderness, I was a true native born Californian. I loved having the desert, mountains and seashore all within an hours drive of home. But the 10 gazillion other people (mostly newly arrived from places where it snows all year) did too. (and the California girls - it's twue, it's twue ...) But when career opportunities beckoned, we moved to Texas. And learned that Texas truly is bigger that any half dozen other states (well, almost). I also found that Texas was nothing like what I was led to believe from the movies. (No arm-waving cactus for one thing). There ARE some flat dusty areas (Midland-Odessa), but far more regions with green rolling hills, or towering pine forests, or dramatic rocky escarpments, or leafy creeks, or sandy shorelines. It's just not all within one hours drive. Just about the only thing I miss are the Sierra Nevadas. I've visited most of the states and seen some mightly beautiful places I'd like to call home. Just about every state has some nice places. (Kansas is not included). Now Texans do have some kind of chip on their shoulder. I haven't figured it out completely but I suspect it has something to do with the Texas revolution and being the only state which used to be a sovereign nation before statehood. I don't know that I'm a dyed-in-the-wool Texan yet, and I might retire to someplace where there's mountains, but lemme tell ya, I'm mighty glad I got here when I did.

Novice CM asks a good question: "How much religion is there in Scouting?" I believe the answer is: "As much as the CO and the Scout and his parents want".

Let me see if I can clarify for some folks why I am a Scouter, despite the fact that I do not agree with 100% of BSA policies. My book club is a fine group. I dont agree with all of their choices, but I do what I can to influence them. Our community youth softball league is a fine group. There are a couple of policies I think are bone-headed but I put up with them because the kids learn a lot and really enjoy the fun. The company I work for is a fine firm. I dont agree with everything but I stay because the many positives far outweigh the few negatives. My political party is a fine organization. I disagree with a few of their positions but in general, our values overlap significantly. The church with which I affiliate is a fine group. Some of the people are on the fringe but most are pretty reasonable. BSA is a fine organization. I dont agree with all of their choices, but I do what I can to influence them. There are a couple of policies I think are bone-headed but I put up with them because the kids learn a lot and really enjoy the fun. I dont agree with everything but I stay because the many positives far outweigh the few negatives. I disagree with a few of their positions but in general, our values overlap significantly. Some of the people are on the fringe but most are pretty reasonable.

There certainly are people on these forums who do believe that certain elements (not all) of BSA policies are immoral, unethical and, yes, potentially life destroying. (I take it you have never met the parents of a 15 year old boy who committed suicide because he was constantly told by his church, his friends, his community, and the BSA that he was abnormal, perverted, and not the "best kind of citizen".)

Now, my memory is not as good as it used to be, but I just do not recall anyone on these forums - or anyone else for that matter - ever refering to BSA as a "hateful group" or despising their "core values" or saying they were trying to "subvert the mission" of the BSA or "trash-talking their positions" or saying the BSA is a "hate-mongering bigotted institution". On the other hand, I can see how some folks whose world view is black-and-white - "yer with us or yer agin us" - could jump to those conclusions.

Snopes status: False http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/starbucks.asp

Thanks for posting, Beav. I find it interesting that BSA is contemplating being banned from the next World Jamboree - in Sweden - and Sweden is on record supporting the BSA's stand. (I suppose the Swedes wouldn't be allowed to attend their own event?)

Gonzo's accusation of fraud on Merlyn's part makes me wonder exactly when the DRP became embedded in the membership requirements. I certainly do not remember religiosity being an issue back in the '60s. I'd welcome reliable historical data from anyone. I sorta suspect that back before the 80s or so it was presumed that BSA members were theists (because most everybody in America was) but if not, well that's OK too, just pay yer dues and come camping with us. De facto local option, if you will.

The "governance issues" are not specified but it looks like BSA, Sweden, and unspecified other countries want Mr. Missoni to step down as Sec. General. It'll be interesting to see who blinks.

pack, With friends like this, who needs anemones?

"This seems to make the presumption that the knot will be recognized. " Ed, just by wearing the patch, I become known to the Scouts in my unit. Whether they know what the knot is not, word gets around that "Mr. T is tolerant"; if a Scout in my unit is gay or non-theist (and there are) they know I will accept them for who ther are. I don't care whether the knot is "recognized" by another adult or knot.

"If you want to end war and stuff you got to sing loud."

I've worn the Inclusive Scouting emblem since 2002. I wear it on my optional patch pocket. I wear it to notify the scouts in my unit that I am a "safe" adult to talk to - that I will not knee-jerk get them kicked out of scouting if they are struggling with gender identity or the mysteries of the universe ("God"). I made the choice to sew it onto my uniform after being made aware that suicide is the primary cause of death among American teenage boys and that gender confusion is a leading source of depression caused suicide. Everyone in my unit is aware of my position on these issues and it's never been an issue. I was chosen to be SM while wearing the knot and was approved by our CO. I have often been asked about the knot at Wood Badge, at the 2005 Jamboree, at district and council events and at summer camps. My answer is simple and open ended. I never preach. If they want more information about it, or about my beliefs, I am open to dialogue. Some folks have raised their eyebrows at me and backed away. Most have been honestly interested. Some have been very supportive. Several of the ASMs in my unit now wear the patch also. I am aware that it is not sanctioned by BSA and I knowingly choose to disobey this uniform regulation. I would not violate any aspect of YP or the G2SS, but in this uniforming issue my disobedience is thoughtful and in service of a greater purpose. I would be happy to further discuss the Inclusive Scouting Emblem with anyone who chooses to send me a private message. -Trevorum