Trevorum

It's very sad to think that BSA would have to come with a warning label, like a can of toxic bug spray. I know I'm in the minority on this, but I firmly believe that Scouting should be open to *ALL* kids. Sexuality is completely irrelevant to Scouting.

Excellent advice from Ed, Semper and others. A tough situation made worse by weak professionals. Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

tortdog, that not all they do of course. They also have programs on 1st Aid, orienteering, wilderness survival, backpacking, cooking, firebuilding, etc. My point was that if a patrol wanted to present a program on D&D, it shouldn't necessarily be rejected out of hand. Some of those off-the-wall topics are fun now and again and keep the fellows interested.

packsaddle said, '... [homosexuality] is evolutionarily maladaptive ..." pack, I strongly disagree with that widespread but inanely simplistic notion. Of course, I realize you were being flip, but many people really do reject any biological basis for homosexuality because they assume the genes would be self-eliminating from a population. Think a moment about the advantages of human homosexuality in the context of Dawkins' Selfish Gene. In a foraging society (which characterizes 98% of human history), an adult male who contributes to the food supply but who does not add population pressure to the band would clearly enhance the survival probability of his neices and nephews (which share 25% of his genes). These uncles would bring home lots of food for their relatives, would protect them from predators, etc. Any gene which tinkers with hormones to result in a disinterest in the sexual signals of females (odors, shapes, etc.) would clearly be selected for and passed on through his neices and nephews!. Of course the frequency of this gene would need to be kept in balance with population fertility and mortality. Perhaps a 10% frequency would be optimal? (hmmm?) To carry this idea further, if the allele was recessive and on the X chromosome, females would be homozygous at about 1% frequency ... (hmmm?) At the very least, it's an interesting line of thought and we need to do more research.

schleining said, "D&D should not be a part of the Troop program." I don't see why not. If the PLC includes it as a program element, who's to say differently? For example, several months ago, one of our patrols gave a program about card games. They broke into groups with each group learning a different card game (no gambling with money of course). We've also had programs about skateboarding, gunpowder, and video gaming. These topics aren't outdoor skills and they don't have merit badges, but they are what boys are interested in.

Prairie, you're absolutely right, thanks. And, this kid will be coming on LOTS of campouts, I can tell.

I sorta wondered that myself ... and came to the conclusion that her brothers must have always done it for her. She never was a girl scout either, alas.

Laura, He won't be 11 until July. That was the problem. Yes, when WEBELOS camp with us we always have a parent along. However, he isn't a WEBELOS (and neither are his buds, any longer). So we treated him the same as we would any other fellow who wanted to go on a "sample" campout before deciding to join. BTW, we have had several of those prospective recruits. Some have joined and some haven't.

Our troop has a current situation which, while perhaps unusual, certainly can't be unique; I seek the wisdom of the forum. This spring, a young fellow ("Josh") came with his best friend ("Bill") to join the troop. Bill had been a Cub Scout and had earned his AoL. Together with several other fellows in his WEBELOS Den, Bill crossed over and registered with our unit. However, Josh had not been a Cub Scout and, like Bill, he is still in the 5th grade (They both graduate in 2 weeks). However, Josh was sold on scouting and wanted to join the troop right away. We explained the joining rules to his parents and they agreed that he would have to wait until June to register with the troop. However, Josh really, really, really wanted to go camping. The CC and I decided to allow him to camp with us as a "prospective recruit" as long as his parents supplied a medical form and an activity release. So my two questions are: Can he count this campout towards Tenderfoot requirements 1, 2, and 3? I can see both sides of this. And, more generally, what liability protection do the CO, troop, and volunteer leaders have in cases of injury with a non-registered guest?

Welcome to the forum, texas5! Always glad to have another fellow Scouter around from the great Lone Star state! I believe that ScoutNut is correct (stick around long enough and you'll know that he usually is!) about when your son can start working on WEBELOS. Just another few weeks (depending on your local school calendar) and he can start. But check with his DL and the CM 1st. (This reminds me of a similar question, which I'll post in a new thread...)

I believe that ScoutNut is correct. But this is not unusual for a youngster. Many want the security of ready-made friends in school and other activities. However, Cub Scouts is a great way to meet NEW best friends! Of course he won't accept that reasoning, but be assured that if he joins the WEBELOS den, he will make new friends and he'll still have his old friend too.

Prairie_Scouter asks, "So, What's so bad about being gay?" Well, let's see. How about some of these reasons: 1) People assuming you are immoral, just because of the person you love. 2) Not being allowed to marry the person you love. 3) Getting stares of disgust in public from merely holding hands with the person you love. 4) Your parents disowning you or not talking to you because of the person you love. 5) Being called ugly names in school because of the person you love. 6) Having the cops treat you differently because of the person you love. 7) Being told by your religion that you are a sinner just because of the person you love. 8) Knowing that people are reluctant to shake hands with you just because of the person you love 9) Constantly being treated like an outsider because of the person you love. 10) Still having your straight friends treat you like a "token", just because of the person you love. 10) Having restaurant waiters refuse to serve you just because of the person you love. 10) Not being promoted in your career just because of the person you love. 10) Not being allowed to serve in your country's military just because of the person you love. 10) Not being allowed to join the BSA just because of the person you love. 10) ... Other than those things, you mean? It makes me glad I was born a hetersosexual.

The serious leadership ind internal troop politics issues aside ... ... in my experience, Scouts do not "fail" Boards of Review. However, if the BoR sees a problem, it can vote to adjourn without passing the Scout at that time. He is given a clear explanation of what the problem is, clear instructions on how to remedy the problem, and a clear statement that when the problem is fixed, the board will reconvene. The "problem" may be something in the troop's "by-laws" (eg., not wearing his complete uniform to the BoR), or something in the BSA advancement requirements that was not caught by the SM (eg., assuming that APL is OK as a position of responsibility). In the first case, the problem can be rectified the following week. In the latter example, the BoR might need to wait for six months or more before reconvening.

vrooman, the process of establishing a new MB is slow and painful (similar to printing a commemorative postage stamp). Ideas are contantly being considered by BSA National and just as constantly being rejected. Ask your SE to whom you should submit your idea. A case in point - the Archeology MB was decades in the proposal stage, despite widespread interest in this topic in National Geographic, on the Discovery Channel, etc.

Just wanted to share this little story with y'all... Last Saturday night my 17 year old daughter hosted a party at our house for a bunch of her friends in the high school band. My two sons & I were camping with the troop, but my wife and another mom chaperoned the party. We have a fire ring in our backyard with a good stack of firewood and kindling, and she was planning on having a cozy campfire with s'mores, guitar playing, etc. However, are any of you surprised that NONE of the high school kids could get a fire going? That is, EXCEPT for the ONE fellow who was a Scout? He was the only one who knew to prepare the lay first and to get the kindling and firewood assembled at the ring before lighting the match. He was the only one who knew that the match lit the tinder (not the logs!), which got the kindling going, which eventually got the firewood going! When my sons and I got back home on Sunday, we chuckled at this story ...

Another excellent way to support the men and women who are in harms way is through Operation Interdependence, a DoD approved civilian-to-military delivery system for "care packages". Please see http://www.oidelivers.com/ Our CO sponsors a OI program and our troop participates. It's an excellent program and I recommend it to all.

Our troop has set SPL requirements as 14 or older and completed council's the week-long junior leader training course.

You can also try calling the lodge advisor for you council if you still have questions. That's what I'd sure recommend! If there are adults in a unit who WANT to participate/help in the OA but are not being considered for membership because of personality conflicts, the lodge (and/or chapter) advisor would probably be interested.

Welcome to our virtual campfire, Rob!

tortdog, I really think you're way too worried about sex. Other than that, we seem to agree that BSA should stay BSA.

I also would be opposed to gender integration of BSA. However, not for the reason given by tortdog. Mixed gender youth groups can engage in a wide variety of activities, including outdoor camping, without fearing hanky-panky. The teenagers I know are responsible young adults and Taliban-like separation is not only unnecessary but insulting to them. Adult supervision is the key. Many youth groups already do this sort of thing, including church groups. Indeed, most of the Scouting organizations around the world are successfully coed without devolving into dens of iniquity. Here in the US, young people who want coed activities already have a wide variety of options, incuding Campfire, YMCA, church groups, and school groups. But boys who want to hang with other guys without girls around have the Boy Scouts of America. BSA has developed the premier youth program for BOYS. There is nothing wrong with coed groups, but this element is just not part of BSA. Integrating Boy Scouts would not be a terrible thing, but the resulting organization would be very, very diferent from what we have known for the last 95 years.

Kristi, thanks for the offer! Other councils with commemorative Cub 75th CSPs that can be ordered from the Scout Shop Capitol Area Council (http://www.bsacac.org/) Black Hill Area Council (http://blackhillsareacouncil.com/) Hiawatha Seaway Council (http://cnyscouts.org/) Mason-Dixon Council Longs Peak Muskingum Valley Council

lvacscouter, thanks for the info, and welcome to the forums! Only a month ago, you say? Usually us patch collector nuts have a early warning network for this type of thing, but this name change happened quickly and quietly (must have been a "stealth" action, what with all those Nellis folks! ) I'll look forward to seeing the new CSP.

Cub rank advancement is supposed to be based on the school year, with DLs structuring the activities so that all cubs in the den earn their rank at about the same time. Way back when, the Blue and Gold was just a birthday party. Rank advancement for Wolf, Bear, and Lion was larged timed by the DLs to coincide with the B&G and the rest of the year was spent on earning Arrow points. The 10 year old Lions earned their Webelos badge at the end of the school year and then joined a troop. After the Lion rank was dropped, Webelos IIs continued to earned their AoL and cross-over at the end of the school year. But it turned out that all those new Boy Scouts weren't really ready for an entire week of summer camp with their new troop, so the cross-overs were pushed back a couple of months and became mixed up with the B&G. This gave the new Boy Scouts a couple of months of shake-down with their troop, but the B&G was pretty busy. So some packs began separating Cub rank advancement from the B&G by adopting the troop model of advancement in which ranks are awarded immediately and recognized later. As as been pointed out, either model can work well, depending on the size of the pack. However, if DLs do not structure den advancement activities so that all cubs progress together, then no cub should be made to wait for his badge until all are finished.

This is certainly news to me. I have never heard of gifts at an Eagle CoH. In my experience, if gifts are given by family and close friends, this is done privately, not at the ceremony. I'd hate for Eagle CoHs to become venues for socially expected gift-giving like birthday parties and bridal showers.