theysawyoucomin'

Don't forget the World Scouting Fund(Friendship Fund) For my ticket we held a movie night showed "Follow me Boys" and donated the proceeds to the fund. We read the certificate when we received it and explained to the boys who we helped and some history. My ticket counselor would not allow the following for a goal: Ticket item #5 Diversity Insure that an overweight, half chinese-half german, nearsighted, veteran with high colesterol and marginally high blood pressure earns his beads. I wonder why it did not fly?

Jack it is alot to handover at one time. But let me see if I can tell you how we soften the blow. Last year we had a great Pack year. We collect 5 cent bottles to fund our pack.In NY we have a bottle deposit law. Here is a letter that went home to parents about what a boy in our Pack gets for his $50 reg. fee. The Pack Committee had a discussion concerning money. Money is a horrible topic, however, our society uses it as a medium of exchange for goods and services. This led us to the following question: What does a boy get when his parents pay his $50 yearly fee in Pack 253? >$10 den startup (Den Leaders recved $100 dollars for materials,tools,etc. at the beginning of the year) $12 total for a PW derby car, Rocket, and Raingutter regatta boat(coming soon) $40 allowance for Boston Trip($25 gas card or paid bus fare. Aquarium fee) $6 Parking fee at Thatcher Park +\- $15 in advancement patches, belt loops, and pins $5.50 blue and gold dinner meal. $5 for Merdwin the Mediocre(silly magic for blue and gold dinner) $8 for Pack Tee Shirt(hopefully he has it by the time you read this) $9 for BSA national registration $1 for national insurance $12 for Boys Life magazine. (I hope you read it too!) Total $_______________. I wish my stocks were doing as well! We dont ask you to sell anything door to door. We do ask for help sorting bottles and at the yearly food booth for garage sale day. In the past money has also come from Kiwanis and some from Key Bank. Food booth Donations also came from Hannaford. Please consider how your family values Scouting and compare it to other activities your children may be involved in. Thank You. So you see a boy actually does very well in our Pack. Your mileage may vary. When a boy shows up to sort bottles he also gets a $10 certficate to the Scout Store. Can be used for a Boy Scout shirt for Webelos, gear, Summer Camp, whatever the boy wishes. My son bought a Kelty backpack. About half came from bottles. Also please note that any money your unit sends to Council does not go to council programs. MOST ALL OF THAT GOES TO NATIONAL. That's why we also gave to the yearly F.O.S. drive. We will probably give more. Those are the tangibles. You are a scout master and do not need to hear the intangibles. My son plays travel soccer, takes swimming lessons, plays little league baseball, CYO basketball, and does Scouts. Soccer is over $300 dollars a year. YMCA dues $840/yr plus $40 for 6 lessons. CYO is more than $50. Baseball is about $100 bucks. Plus fundraisers. I'm not saving for retirement right now but my kids are active in Sports and other things. My daughter has her Silver GSA award and does other activities. They can't say they did not have opportunities to experience things. Scouting has the best R.O.I. if you look at only tangibles. Intangibles., Well, You know what I'll say. I usta be an Owl, a good ole owl too. Thank you for reading this long post

Here's the story. New boy shows up for recruitment night. Was a tiger for a short time but was not happy after about four months. He will turn 11 in May. Currently starting fifth grade. His peers from school are in a Webelos II den. We live in a small town with from 80 to 100 kids in a school grade. Everybody knows everybody. My plan is to take him in the Weeb II den until February. After crossover He can go to the Weeb I den. and work for four more months before joining Boy Scouts. His desire is now. I don't want to say "wait until May so you can join Boy Scouts." Is this the best thing for this lad? I thank you for any comments or suggestions for the situation.

The Girl Scout shop in Albany has the silva kit with +/_ 18 compasses and the really big compass to show how to use it. See a GSA leader near you to borrow it. Too bad our council doesn't have one to loan. Especially the big compass model. Check out Empire O club they usually have the scout "O" in October at 5 rivers. Finally, all the Cracker Barrels have silva knockoffs for less than 5 bucks. Our Pack has like 15 of them. Good luck

As a former infantryman in the Union Street Marble Club I kind of doubt there are many people that will hump 85 pounds for a very long distance. Some moron at DOD procurement will buy it and some pimple face 18 year old warrior will have to try to keep up with the rest of his squad. TOBAL!!!!!!

Jim, I live over the hill to the west, south of Albany. At the Book House in Stuyvesant Plaza they have many maps.One map is the Taconic Trail but I don't know how steep it is or how easy it is to get off and on. The map is $9. the Trail is 35 miles total I think. They have an award for doing it in 24 hours so it cannot be that killer. They also have patches. Give the book house a call and ask for the map specialist. Sorry I have more questions than answers.

11 is too much. I had 13 it was too much. Tell them their boy deserves a trained leader. The parents must step up. Make the "old boys" one den. They should already be bobcats from last year. They should be meeting soon. What type of summer program did they have? Make the 5 new boys a new den they are all starting out fresh. Have the Chartered Organization rep be the bad guy, the unit really belongs to his org. Have the COR get uniformed and tell the potential new den leader he must be uniformed. COR must walk the walk. Best of luck.

To Ms. Rood, Have you seen American youth lately? Did the boys have ball caps on backwards? Did the crack of their butts show above their pants? Scouts come from the society that breeds them. We all try to make them better but if Ms. Rood thinks we can make chicken salad from a society comprised of a certain amount of chicken sh%$&&TTTTTT then she is dead wrong. But that's OK she comes from the "if it feels good do it" crowd. How many kids have you helped Ms. Rood? Ms. Rood I feel as though I wasted 4 years in the Marine Corps when I read your drivel. I have listen to Purple Heart receipients(doesn't look like I spelled that right) quietly comment how young ladies were dressed at Arlington. I don't think General A.A Vandergrift cared. Or Merit Edson Or any of the other heroes that gave their careers or lives to defend her right to badmouth her country. Your slanted feeble minded opinion has been noted. She upsets me but doesn't change my mind.

uz2bnowl...a good old owl too.

One hour per week is best. That being said, I had it for 2 1/2 hours twice a month. Got them right off the school bus at the VFW hall. Assistant Dl and one parent so the ratio was about 3 cubs to one leader plus a Den Chief. Didn't follow the time guidelines but I was well prepared for each meeting. I think my "customers" were happy and attendance was always good. I did not waste the first 15 minutes of every meeting waiting for a late boy. The time between 2:30 and 5:00 is lost parent and child time anyway. So I did not take up any family time. Suffered very few confilcts. Planning and preparedness prevent poor performance. Three per month with one Pack meeting is best.

Kittle, I am in full agreement with Bobwhite and madkins. You must have a BALOO trained person on the camping trip. You jeopardrdized Scouting by doing what you did. If any of the boys had a bad time you can turn them off for their entire youth. Get training ,get help, delegate. All that aside, this summer I planned a Pack Picnic at a NYS State park. $200 usage fee. We knew we had it reserved 6 months in advance. One den leader Dad has his sons birthday party on the same day. we lose an entire den to this party. An entire den of boys was forced to decide which event to go to. We had a blast at the picnic. You can lead a horse to water...but can't make him drink. Plan what the boy's would like to see and don't get frustrated about who shows up. I was upset once and my Cubmaster coined : McKnight's Maxim: I'm having fun ... the kids are having fun... What the heck is your problem? Get trainig and try again! Observe the rules. Get some parents to help. I need to ask: What is your position in the Pack? Are you trained for that position? How many Scouts? Why are your sons not in the Pack?

I am a WEEB II leader and I had the same Den chief for bear year and WEEB I. A fine young man. Very bright, eager. The Cubs worshipped him. I could have used him alot more effectively. He accompanied the cubs to cub res camp. He went on three family camping overnights with them. ("FREEZE OUT" sleigh riding ice fishing,Fall trip and hike, Boston trip aquarium USS Constitution.) He spoke of the troop often. Helped them make soda bottle water rockets. Attended training and did the requirements to wear the RED, WHITE and BLUE Den chief cord(which he can always wear). This cord really sets him apart, it is no cake walk. When you see a Boy Scout wear this award, he worked hard. During the Bear year he taught the boys to build an electric motor. The cubs go out of their way to say hi to him in school. He claims he is scarred for life and after marriage he teases his mom that he will give her zero grandchildren because of his service with the Den. He has a younger sister and 10 younger(cub scout) brothers.(the den) He will be one of the boys they know after crossover in Feb. At the end of June we had a plaque and cake at a Den meeting to thank him. The next meeting, after his last meeting, one cub asked, "why is "Chuck(not his real name) leaving us?" My reply was, "He is not leaving us, in Feb '06 we will join him in the Troop." Every cub den in American needs an eager, trained Den Chief. I very much agree with ACCO, when it comes to people some you win some you lose. My cubs were big winners by their friendship with this older Scout. Give him jobs to do and then let him do it. Help him to excel. Get him training. Let him lead, let him grow. His service was so valuable to the boys that I think I will get at least three of "his" cubs to be Den Chiefs one day. Sorry this jumps around so much.

Folks, If what you say is true, I was dead wrong about the God and GSA issue. I heard it from a GSA mother and leader a couple of years ago. She was not correct. I took her word to be gospel and therefore I was not correct. It seems Mr JD is AWOL from the topic. We all know Gregory Hines was a heck of a good dancer. Shughart and Gordon both won "THE MEDAL OF HONOR" for service in Somalia(sp?) Forshizzle! dawg. does our nation value performers over warriors? The ACLU needs their gravy train taken away with legislation to end the US Gov't paying for their law fee every time they sue.

I would support the Webelos colors. They are a place to pin the activity badges. Sadly they are being pushed aside. My boys have a flag, a Texas longhorn patrol patch, and quality unit. Move the quality unit right under the pack number. That way people can see which unit is a quality unit! Keep the colors, I wore one, my kid wears one, I want my grandkids to wear em'. Tradition is under attack everywhere let's keep this one. The boys like them- we just take them off for rough housing.

JD, Our group is very much under attack. Today's liberal press attacks many things I hold dear. The press eats it up when members of our group get hurt or need to be pulled out of a tight spot. Four girls have a tree fall on them, because it happens at a Scout property it becomes national news. As the song says, "give us dirty laundry". When groups are under attack they "circle the wagons". I did not read Ziegers' book. I don't wish to make wrong assumptions. I stand by my questions to answer your argument: Who is Gregory Hines? Who are Shughart and Gordon? Which of these people died famous and wealthy and which must be googled to find out who they were and what they did? What should the BSA have done differently when it came to youth protection issues regarding the boys? Should the BSA cave to the ACLU and rid itself of the "reverent" part of Scouting? I think after this discussion I will go back to seeking the advice of Scouters with more experience on the fun aspects of Scouting and how to deliver a good program. You spent some ink belittling goodwin's post. JD, I would like to know your thoughts.

I remember the most insulted I ever felt as a den leader. We had a $1 dues required for materials, one ignorant parent treated me like a babysitter and said,"Are you sure that's all you want for watching them all this time?" Folks hopefully know that Elmers glue, construction paper, and everything else isn't free at any store that I know of. If things are free in your town please let me know. Don't be bashful, you are building young me that are going to run the country when we are too old to take care of ourselves. Thank you for your service to our nation and for making a difference in kids lives.

Thank you for making a difference in this boy's life. How come he didn't call the local ACLU chapter president?

I'm sorry but my knuckles must drag on the ground, I think the article had merit. Boys still need an exclusive organization. Women leaders are welcome and encouraged. If you want a coed organization we have Venturing when a boy gets to be 14. Society can't have it both ways. What does society want? Strong self reliant men? or "emasculated" sperm donors able to create more of the same. I am one of those olde fashioned birds who think some boys come for the challenges. We are working with the same aged boys that used to go to sea as powder monkeys, or if wealthy, young midshipmen. These similar boys were in the pony express. In other societies there is a rite of passage. Most boys pass a driving test and then we pray to God(well the ACLU doesn't )he does not harm himself or others. Who can argue that most of what scouts does is good for the individual. John daigler- The BSA was an environmental movement before there was a movement Society does value teachers, painters ect. Society does not value firemen, police and the military. Who is Gregory Hines? Who is Shughart and Gordon? Ask 10 people to name the last policeman or firefighter that died in the line of duty in your town. As a Marine in the 80's all the people who valued the military were WW2 vets and their friends. Sadly time is doing what the armies of Japan and Germany could not. The "WARRIORS" of this nation protect the teacher, they allow the painter to paint the crucifix in a bucket of urine and fling elephant crap at the virgin Mary. The hippies that are getting all their signs ready for the march on Washington for this war are soon to be the elders of this nation. Allah help us. The ban on gay leaders was a good one. The Catholic church had a problem and in many communities still has not resolved the problem. Are all gay men pederasts? No. Are some ? Yes. Was this for the protection of the boys? Yes. NJ- The Girl Scouts took the "God issue" out of the argument by doing away with that requirement. So the ACLU won. Much like the terrorists won in Spain. The founder of this organization thought God should play a role in the upbringing of young men. We are being sued for a belief in God and a youth protection policy that we thought would help with a serious problem. Should we have continued to be a target rich opportunity for those who would bring harm to it's members? In hindsight what procedures should the BSA have incorporated that would be ACLU friendly? I like irish music. Should I sue the Hibernians so I can be their president?

We could have a totally different topic on dealing with parents. I don't think 60% of the parents read the packet you send home. The boys Scout book isn't read by the parents either. IN MY EXPERIENCE, most of the parents handle this organization poorly. They think it's great that their kid is involved but they don't want to read or find out much more than what is minimally required. In my fourth year as a leader I am still answering uniform questions that are right in the boy's book. I would reccomend handout or a packet but then thoughly go over each page leaving very little to chance. I would also get a big chart with parent participation job on it and tell them, "Please don't leave until you sign up as a helper in one of the areas!"

What about (like flag football and "touch" rugby") a non contact version of Lacrosse. We play it in our Pack. We have 20 sticks and some soft lacrosse balls. Could improvise with a cut chlorox jug on the end of a stick with tennis balls. The game is rooted in Iroquois religion, so the roots of it are in keeping with scoutlike roots. Think OA here. Womens lacrosse plays with eye protection only and the ball is just as hard as the men.

The Tricity Valley Cats just had their Scout night sadly the Lord deciced to water that night and it had to be cancelled but the home team won because they led after 8 innings. The Lowell Spinners in Lowell, Mass. also have a Scout night. Both the Spinners and the "cats are short Season A ball. Astros and Red Sox Respectively. What team is the Storm with? Make sure to use Fuji film containers they pop so much better than the black with grey tops. R. Noll Usta be an owl, a good ole owl too!

We tried two things last year that only met with minimal success but may work better for you. 1. I addressed the entrie elementary school k-3 at a morning program assembly. (don't let the ACLU find out)I wore my uniform and brought a pack basket filled with a item to hold up from nearly every belt loop made. I asked them to hold up their hands if they like to do...and held up an item. There was tremendous energy in the room . Some Moms said they were eating out of the palm of my hand. Fishing rowing, flag football, compass, rockets pinewood derby...you name it. It looked like a tent revival! 2. We had a family movie night a showed follow me boys. The kids were singing and non scouts were wearing parts of scout uniforms it went well. Sadly our net number dropped from 43 to 34. Oh well we tried.

Thank you BSACHAPLAIN, Being that the (fill in your favorite unscoutlike term,ajective) ACLU (plural noun, another unscoutlike term) are merely threatening to sue on behalf of nobody all municipalities that charter a scout group our commitee had a good 25 minutes wasted discussion on what constituted a charterO. If we all were all trained it would take a moment. So what we have here is a bunch of untrained "leaders" (what program are they leading?) wasting my time learning what I learned at Sm/Asm training. What a fool I am for getting training!

I really like Aubrey for his delegation abilities. Also his passing of the knocking wood and spinning tradition. The Royal Navy, our Navy and my alma mater the Marine Corps are so steeped in tradition. From tradition comes "esprit de Corps" which I think is severly lacking in the world, as though it were a bad thing. He has tremendous interest in his young charges as he knows there must still be a well lead Navy long after he is hauled away to the "home for senile sailors". I'd like to think some of the NCO's in my old battalion do some things the same way as we did. In that way they are my "great grandsons" so to speak. The Maine Corps leadership traits are : judgement justice dependability integrity decisiveness bearing unselfishness courage knowledge loyalty enthusiasm tact initiative endurance I think the movie shows Aubrey displaying all those traits. Remeber the Titans had the forming stormingect. concept and was good. Other than the "forming. storming. conforming . performing model what else do you look for in the "Cowboys" movie? It's been a long time but I don't remeber much in the way of leadership there. What did I miss? October Sky was shown at Wood Badge. It was good. A cleaned up version (if it exists) of Private Ryan would be good but it would really have to be edited. The leader has to stand against the tide when letting the German go free. What about "Glory" with denzel and matthew? What about the submarine movie with hackman and denzel? Miracle on Ice would be very good(i agree with Sandy) and OGE on the "great escape". Loyalty is shown to the blind guy. and all work together. What about Memphis Belle? What about the Kevin Costner cavalry movie where he hunts buffalo with the American Indians and two societies collide? The movie asks the two opposites to look beyond preconceived notions about "the other guy" The Movie "Gettysburg" with Ted Turner is based on the book "Killer Angels" which is required reading for all Marine Corporals. The movie "Clear and Present Danger" has some good loyalty and integrity stuff. Alot of my suggestions are long movies. I'm sorry that I can't remember some of the titles. Please write back about "Cowboys"

You must get a birch log and a painted axe. If you need a slightly used log (only one chop) I can loan you one! Congrats on earning your ticket and thank you for your service to American youth.