theysawyoucomin'

ADVANCE. My son crossed last February after tigers thru AOL. He has camped for 21 nights, attended every overnight, backpacked a weekend in the rainy Adirondacks. Attends meetings, went to Camp this summer. Volunteered for Klondike derby team. Fairly self reliant, pithes a tent, sleeps out, can cook, swims like a fish, earned canoeing, and swimming MB, Starting lifesaving this week. Like Scouts. But doesn't want to advance. Treating it with neglect right now, (he is 11 and 11 months) but I am kind of wondering if I'll have a 17 year old Scout canoeing the Allagash with his 14 year old patrol leader. I know it's all for him and what he wants. But really I feel like I'm in a musical with a big Sheep dog named Nana singing the chorus of "I won't grow up" Any advice here?

I took Leader skills two weeks ago and there were 3 Cub Scouters in a class of seven. I don't think this was the best way to do it. The cub leaders never learned about any of the activity badges(pins) the program was never explained. Though we did spend about two hours walking the woods with a logger. I thought that was very good. If they wanted to make a great cub scouter weekend it would be to teach the webelos course and Baloo on the same two day weekend. Make it mandatory for Bear leaders on their way to Weeb leaders To answer the original post, no you won't be out of place. If you are fairly experienced at camping you won't learn much either, but you can mentor your class mates. You will learn something, but not many things. Remember it is a basic course.

I watched this same occurance at cub scout camp. The folks at camp acted like they had no idea what was happening with the belt loop. As if this was just a familiarization firing. In the police state of NY It is against the law for anyone under 11 to fire an air gun. So technically a cub scout can never earn the belt loop. Doesn't matter in a few days Spitzer will be Gov. and the rounding up and registration will begin. If only the ACLU knew that there was a second ammendment. "why is it when somebody sticks up a bank the politicians want to take all the guns away from the people that didn't do it?"

Here's few more they used to teach us. Number 11 must be new 'cause I don't remember ever hearing it. Marine Corps Leadership Principles and Traits 1. know yourself and seek self-improvement. 2. be technically and tactically proficient. 3. develop a sense of responsibility among your subordinates. 4. make sound and timely decisions. 5. set the example. 6. know your Marines and look out for their welfare. 7. keep your Marines informed. 8. seek responsibility and take responsibility for your actions. 9. ensure assigned tasks are understood, supervised, and accomplished. 10. train your Marines as a team. 11. employ your command in accordance with its capabilities Marine Corps Leadership Traits -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- dependability the certainty of proper performance of duty. bearing creating a favorable impression in carriage, appearance and personalconduct at all times. courage the mental quality that recognizes fear of danger or criticism, but enables a man to proceed in the face of it with calmness and firmness. decisiveness ability to make decisions promptly and to announce them in clear, forceful manner. endurance the mental and physical stamina measured by the ability to withstand pain, fatigue, stress and hardship. enthusiasm the display of sincere interest and exuberance in the performance of duty. initiative taking action in the absence of orders. integrity uprightness of character and soundness of moral principles; includes the qualities of truthfulness and honesty. judgment the ability to weigh facts and possible solutions on which to base sound decisions. justice giving reward and punishment according to merits of the case in question. the ability to administer a system of rewards and punishments impartially and consistently. knowledge understanding of a science or an art. the range of one's information, including professional knowledge and an understanding of your marines. tact the ability to deal with others without creating offense. unselfishness avoidance of providing for one's own comfort and personal advancement at the expense of others. loyalty the quality of faithfulness to country, the corps, the unit, to one's seniors, subordinates and peers. I wish Scouting would adopt the traits because I think they are all very good.

Wow! I never thought I said thieving copyrights was OK. To clarify, Think is is a hoot, that the industry that sells debauchery Is asking a group that strives for ethical behavior, that said industry presecutes To participate in a program that teaches members of the group ethical behavior. OLD GREY bird of prey, I never said shaft anybody, I just think it is IRONIC. They have helped run the numbers of the BSA into the ground, as they shape society, how are they going to teach the other (fill in a number here) million kids not to steal their work. Never said egg a church, never said heckle. Ps I still do think it's good to teach kids not to steal. Maybe the Tobacco companies could teach us not to smoke.

I think Sun Tzu said it best about 2500 years ago: "Love your soldiers as your sons and they will follow you into the deepest valleys ,even unto death." I think a kid has to know that you care for him and want him to be the best person he can be,that expands on your third trait. I know you've heard this before," the perfect leader is one that when the task is finished the group will say,"We did this ourselves"".

I think this is a hoot!!!!! I figure Hollywood was allied with most of the folks who were killing us because of the Youth Protection Policy we have denying gay men leadership positions. Now they want us to help protect their revenue stream? Some of those people hate us for a religious requirement Didn't Steven Spielburg say he wanted nothing to do with us? PS I do think it's good to teach the Scouts that they shouldn't steal.

Beav, I have to shine light on some of you comments. Yes, kids think SEALs are cool. However the "average" American kids thinks the mystique of SEALs is cool. The media has fed us the cool side of the SEALS. They don't show the tremendous amount of boring rehearsal and rote memory that takes place. The military has been morphed into some kind of video game where every mothers son is far from danger, killing millions of heathens with a single flight of a remotely piloted vehicle. All that cool military stuff is designed to kill people and break things. At the age of 11 I want my son to have respect for those who serve but I don't want him thinking it is all high speed low drag action all the time. DISCIPLINE,PLANNING,KNOWLEDGE,INTELL,PHYSICAL FITNESS,METAL TOUGHNESS that's what goes into those teams of specialized people. I would counter and say that scouting does some of those things. Is a group of kids that refuse to shop for a weekend campout thinking that a group of Navy SEALS don't have to plan? PLANNING to the minutest detail Why is it those same kids will spend hours looking at a 2 inch screen gathering all the required keys to get into the Frosty Palace on the planet Bubniak won't take the time to make sure they have the right amount of DISCIPLINE to pack the cooking gear for a camping trip? Firearms training is fascinating to kids. Seeing the content of the rifle shooting merit badge is a real downer. The kids are restrained to the utmost. The kids don't even know how to adjust the sights. trying to have all the shots be covered by a quarter is no test of anything. They are shooting off a bench. The rules in the G2SS are tremendously restrictive, but that's another thread. It did not look like those boys were having a good time. Paintball, quite simply is for idiots. As someone who has trained long and hard to kill people with both direct fire and indirect fire weapons, paint ball is for a bunch of wannabees that didn't have the guts to get real training for real service. I laugh out loud at spoiler mommies that buy junior a paintball gun so he can express himself yet anybody that wants to teach him proper respect and handling of firearms is branded a "gun freak". I don't want paintball to ever be a part of scouting. I tremendously agree with peers sitting on boards of review. But don't they already get their chance at peer review when the patrol leader signs off on requirements for advancement? Not one kid signed up for COPE from my son's Troop. COPE looks exciting enough. SEALS use ropes. Not one kid did the mile swim. Seals swim forever. I think kids whine about excitement but when the rubber meets the road many will move to the back of the line. The Empire is in trouble.

If a frogs legs were longer certain parts of him wouldn't hit the ground every time he jumped. we still have absolutely no solutions If Christianity were started now would we wear GLocks around our neck instead of a cross? weain'tsavinganything.com

SORRRRRRRYYYYYYY MOMMMMMMMYYYYY!!!!!!!!! I just love the parents like this. Warn the Scoutmaster she will INSIST he become an EAGLE after his first semester in college and fit everything in when he is 3 days shy of his 18th b-day. what participation requirement?

As an owl I spent the weekend with a number of those lower on the food chain at Camp Wakpominee. What about teaching the boys to hold the patrol flag like a guidon and touch the left forefinger to the pole as a salute, heck we salute the flag. When I was a Den leader at every den meeting I'd have 12 boys stand in a rank and do "dress right DRESS.READY FRONT!Lined up and it let them know the opening had started. They liked it. and it is specifically allowed.

please PM me sause. Did you get my PM?

Randy, I am about one calendar yr ahead of you as a Dad/cub Scouter turned Boy Scouter. imho do the following: 1. Take Wood Badge 2. Spend the first year on the troop committee. Attend a few boards of review. Enjoy some camping where you are not vital to the trip. Observe. Observe. Observe. 3. Learn the new program you are joining with your boy. 4. Improve your skills(camping,outdors, dutch oven cooking etc.) Enjoy. Learn from the TRAINED Scouters that are doing a good job. Read the Guide to Safe Scouting. Read it again. PS> Take Wood Badge is #1 for a reason. Good Luck.

This turned out to be a good trip. I left the place with a new found respect for the University and the students that attend. The tempo seems high and leadership is stressed. The "rooks" (freshmen) that guided our troop were very good. I now the Scouts had a good time. I would suggest this trip to anybody.

Thank you for renewing the thread. Our Troop is going to the Norwich Univ. this weekend and I thought about printing the thread and passing it out to as many Scouters as I could find. Another way to remember those whose only voice is the noise old glory makes when the wind is blowing real hard. Please pass this on.

Lisa I would never tell a parent to SHUT UP but I sure wish some would. These people have been identified for many years. ...the person that had took a bull by the tail once had learnt sixty or seventy times as much as a person that hadn't, and said a person that started in to carry a cat home by the tail was getting knowledge that was always going to be useful to him, and warn't ever going to grow dim or doubtful. -Tom Sawyer Abroad Sammuel Langhorne Clemens I am sick to death of parents that are "too busy" to have their hands soiled in Scouting but they have more than enough time to run their pie hole and tell people (that are using more than enough of their free time on providing a wholesome exciting activity for their kids) how to do things. Wow what a run on sentence that was. I think it is remarkable that some folks think there are more hours in my day than 24. We all get the same amount of time. Some of the Dad's are too pretty to go on a camping trip. Most mommies wouldn't leave the pavement. That's fine just don't tell me how to help the boys run the show. Some folks don't have time. Yes single mothers working a full time job with three small kids don't have time. Sometimes they are very helpful. The last camping trip we went on I was trying to get the boys to focus on mounting out the gear. One mother was talking to a couple of the senoir boys (that should have been helping and guilding the young ones)I asked the boys for help and she informed me that she and the boys had not seen each other all summer and were "catching up". HEY LADY HOW ABOUT YOU USE SOME OF YOUR FREE TIME TO "CATCH UP". Right now they are on on TROOP TIME. In about two hours honey we are really going to need the 45 minutes of daylight she was helping to waste. Hey lady drop the kid off and go have a glass of wine at home and let us get on with the campout. Wow that felt good!!!!!!!!!

I started a long thread about credits for camping nights required for the MB. See camping& high Adventure/camping merit badge TOBAL If the boys sleep in a tent, I don't see how you cannot count it for the MB. You're not the merit badge counselor so you opinion is really only your opinion. Those Scouts are performing one of the greatest deeds a Boy Scout can do, and that is be a DC. The 2nd clas req says troop/patrol activities. I don't think I would count that. Look up the reqs for earning the DC rope. that has something there. Though you have difficulty with the 2nd class req that young man deserves high praise and a pack howl(or cheer) and gratitude of ALL the cubs for his support of this event. Make sure you facilitate his earing the rope, Point the way, have him do the work. The rope is worn until he is 18. I think Den Chiefs are Great!!!!!!! Mine I W stayed with the cubs for two years and is now their SPL.

One of the Tigers cubs this year thought that Jeff Gordon was going to be at sign up night because he and his DuPont car were on the flyer that went home. Bobwhite quail are hunted by the thousands in North America, just because somebody doesn't know what a certain animal is doesn't mean it's an outdated symbol. And any kid who said, "I'm staying in Scouts just long enough until I get my Eagle then I'm getting out". Better never let me hear that lad, we are not here to help you put something on your college resume and check out. Go get your ticket punched being a candystriper and empty bed pans! The Eagle award is not an ejct button. As for this whole big waste of time with the airing of problems without ANY solutions "I know not what course others may take but give the "ignore this user" or give me......." I've watched this pup chase his tail long enough. And the last user I did that to was Bob White

Ask the mother is she'd like a little "shut up" to go with the whine. When people threaten to leave over something like this be sure that the boy knows what was said and that you are sticking to your guns. Don't let the screen door hit you....you know the rest. She has thrown down the gauntlet. Make sure the (insert unsavory and unscoutlike term in here)does not tell the boy that he was kicked out of the Troop. Make sure the boy knows it was the mother's doing that had him leave his buddies. Goodness sakes the PL asked if it was OK. tell her to look up what boy led means. Who ever wrote that she has not paid her dues and has not right to whine was right. If she wants to change things let her "cowboy up" and lead a few trips then she can complain. What would these people ever do if something really bad were to happen. Better yet tell her you resign and now she gets a new part time job with a full time commitment. John Wayne would have known what to do.

As a follow up I was in the gear room Saturday and looked in the coolers we took. THERE IS STILL FOOD IN THEM!!!!!! 5 PL's or former PL , one aspl, one spl, one former quartermaster and two first year scouts that think people are going to continue to wait on them like Cubs and you'd think one of those lads could have emptied the coolers?!?!!?!? Wednesday night we have a COH, I'll have to let the boys know they have the makings of a science experiment going. If anybody thinks there's a dead body in the building at least I'll know it's only fetid smelling baloney,lettuce, eggs,and other great stuff just a brewin'.

Brian, I started this thread to ask about CONCRETE and SPECIFIC SOLUTIONS. You learn in WB that feedback is a gift. Learn to take that gift and put it to work. You still have not mentioned any solutions. Our country has somebody on the news nightly wearing a suit and a tie standing at a podium telling us how truly fouled up we are. This hospital is broke, this gov't system is mismanaged,yada, yada, yada There are very few people finding solutions. We need more. Everything else is just blather and will be forgotten when the next batch of blather comes along to drown it out. (blather is defined as a noxious wind, gas or noise usually having no use) Focus your efforts on your crew, troop or pack. That way something real happens, instead of more useless chatter. All politics and all Scouting for that matter is local.

My son is a Boy Scout I guess for him it would be that flaming idiot with metal on his teeth and a clock around his neck. What's his name?

Do THREE of the following: Use a database manager to create a troop roster, providing name, rank, patrol, and telephone number of each Scout. Sort the register by rank, by patrol, and alphabetically by name. Use a spreadsheet program to develop a weekend campout food budget for your patrol. Use a word processor to write a letter to parents of your troop's Scouts, inviting them to a court of honor. Use the mail merge feature to make a personalized copy of the letter for each family. Use a computer graphics program to design and draw a campsite plan for your troop From the computer merit badge requirements. Now there is no web-design there but some parts of the badge are for introductions sake. The newest merit badge is composite materials. I don't know squat about that but it sounds a little more educational than a NASCAR merit badge. I'm not bad mouthing NASCAR, I just don't get NASCAR. I don't know how they would design a merit badge around a spectator sport. People watch baseball and the average person can play baseball. The Average person cannot drive a stock car. I have read many accounts of Patrol names that were off the wall. Loco poulet---funky chickens etc. I have no problem with any of that as long as it is kept clean. Some of your focus was on Wood Badge. I would hope that one "gets" it prior to signing up for that. Does OA have some outdated stuff???? I don't know, I am not in AO. But I would think so. Brian I think we all realize there are problems I just find your website long on complaints and short on substance. As Clara Pellar said for Wendy's, "Where's the beef?" A skateboarding merit badge? Long ago Baseball was far more popular with boys than skateboarding is today, or ever will be. Was there ever a baseball merit badge? No, it was just something you did. I like the fact that your site generates interest and dialog. I already said that on the uniform forum, but I disagree with the complaints you have. Specifically, what new merit badges would you generate that would make us more modern? I agree with what others have said: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO kindergarten program, make em' wait make em' want to become cubs. Just because public education is looking to have pre-k doesn't mean we have to. Tigers is early enough. Yes, training is mandatory, might cut down on injuries. Will cut down on poor programs that drive boys away. Boy's life---Refuse to take any advertisement money from electronic toy makers and junk knife makers. Boy's life have one old article showing how scouting used to be done. Scouter magazine used to have this there's no reason why some percentage of boys wont enjoy history Other Ideas: Make national schools more accessible like Climbing and shooting sports. Bring the Schools to the leaders and considering we all go to summer camp with our boys make the schools two weekends like wood badge. How much vacation time do these people think I get. I hpop this is not taken as rude---no malice is attached---I just don't agree with you. I think for the most part you are wrong.

There has been some discussion both here and on the uniform board about rehab of our floundering program. So BB what specifically would you add and what would you delete? Will the BSA national insurance policy cover us when we get trampled by the rush to join the ranks?

Has anybody here been to this event? What can I pass along to the Scouts that will make them want to endure the 180 mile car ride? Thank you in advance for your help.