SR540Beaver

My watch is constantly telling me I'm late.

Depends on what you call recruiting. Some troops sit back and wait for cubs to come to them. Some troops actively court packs to build a bond with them and hope to get new scouts thru that effort. I don't know of too many troops that will actively go out and try to bring in scout age boys. They typically draw from cubs. I've visited with people at Roundtable and we've been discussing the possibility of going along with a pack when they do a school night recruiting at the beginning of the year. Our thinking is that we can hit the 6th graders and 5th graders who have been held back a year while the cubs hit the 1st thru 5th graders. We would set up right next to each other and show them the progression from cubs to scouts. I've also toyed with the idea of suggesting a periodic troop lock-in aside from the monthly camp-out. While it was still light out, you could do some knots, lashings and pioneering type stuff. When it gets dark, you could move inside for food, fun, videos, games, etc. The price of admission for the members of the troop is to bring a friend who is not in scouting. I think the general rule of thumb is that you can't attract older boys into the troop and instead focus on just recruiting cubs at crossover. I think a little creative recruiting can make all the difference. If you provide something fun to get them there, you've won half the battle in recruiting. Truth is, if you set up a booth at the jr high or high school, many boys will walk a mile around you. Find another way to attract them.

Pack, I'm sure they hurt.....but I bet you are a darling in them.

I'm only mildly worried about the coolness of Scouting. I remember when I was in high school in the early to mid 70's that some of my buddies in Scouts tried to hide it back then too. My son kept trying to recruit one of his best buddies. First excuse was he didn't want to wear the uniform. Second excuse was that he didn't want to deal with ALL those "rules". Third excuse was he didn't like it being a full year program without a break. He finally talked him into going to a meeting just to see what it was like. He went home ready to sign up. He started waffling as the week progressed. He agreed to go to a second meeting. He signed up that night. He has been on the two campouts since then and hasn't missed a meeting. He also always has his uniform on. Getting them there is half the battle. The program sells itself. It's fun. I keep toying with the idea of having a quarterly or twice a year lock-in where the admission is to bring a non-scouting friend. You can start the event outdoors and work on a pioneering project with spars and lashings. Then move indoors and let them watch movies, play video games, eat, etc. I think a troop that puts the effort into creatively recruiting will have a problem keeping up with registration. Fun is the ultimate cool and every boy likes to have fun.

My son's newest replacement for "kewl" is tight. When he sees something that impresses him, he says, "awww, TIIIIGHT". Of course, my generation had groovy and boss.

I just attended the IOLS course this weekend. There were 13 participants. Other than the staff on the course, there were only 2 of us who wore a complete uniform. Myself and another gentleman. We wore the complete uniform the whole weekend. Everyone else there was in jeans mostly and a wide variety of shirts. Some had their uniform shirts with them and dug them out for the flag ceremony. Is it any wonder that the boys resist wearing their uniform when the SM or ASM won't even follow that methods? I'm not crazy about the uniform myself, but you will always see me in it from sten to stern. It is about attitude more than style and WE are teaching the boys style over attitude when we ignore wearing the full uniform.

What is "Boy Led"? Interesting that you should ask. I went to lunch with EagleDad last week and this was one of our topics of idscussion. BTW, EagleDad teaches JLTC for our Council. I won't go into a lot of detail since I'm sure I couldn't do justice to Barry's explanation to me. Basically, each Troop is different, just as each family, church, business, etc. is different. No two will be alike. The easy answer is that a boy led Troop is one that is led by the boys. Duh! The degree of leading by the boys is determined on many factors such as the age, talents, abilities, experience and knowledge of the boys. A new troop with ten or twelve 11 year olds can be "boy led" in as much as which parts of the program they are competent to lead. For them, it may only be that they can perform their meeting opening and plan their duty rosters and menus. For them at that point in the program, they are "leading" themselves. Adults may have to fill in the gaps in teaching skills, leadership and handling some business. As they grow in their responsibilities, they can go outside what they have done in the past and take on new responsibilities. Those new abilities now become part of their "Boy Led" program where it had not been before. With a troop that has been in existence for a number of years and has a broad age spread, the older boys teach the new boys skills and leadership by example. A cycle is produced that keeps going as long as new scouts are entering the program. The more boys you have and the broader the range of ages, the more "Boy Led" it can become as the boys take on new responsibilities. Eventually, they can run the whole program from the ground up. "Boy Led" is an ever evolving and changing thing within a Troop. They start with a small circle of what they are able to handle and continually step outside that circle and grow it larger and larger. What is boy led in one troop may look totally different from another troop because they are at a different stage of evolution. Barry, I'm sure I butchered your explanation to me and for that I am truely sorry.

E, Tell your DE to look into the BSA's Learning For Life program. He is trying to reinvent the wheel. On second thought, ask your Scout Executive to look into LFL. It is geared more to what your DE is trying to accomplish.

Laurie, No, not you. I was speaking of the "negative" one who finds it necessary to find the wrong in just about everything.

I wish this forum had avatars like some of the others. Someone could use a picture of Eeyor from Winnie the Pooh as their avatar.

FOG, It was said by someone else in another thread, but it bears repeating here. Send an idiot to training and you get a trained idiot. I've been to what you call MS WoodBadge 2001 in a derogatory manner. What you see these two men doing in their unit is nothing that was taught to them at WB. Try as I might, I can't find anything in the course material about keeping things neat and orderly or telling the boys what they are going to do. You are dealing with individual personalities, not the training they received and are not using. Perhaps they picked up their attitude of doing it their way from an example of someone else in their unit who likes to criticize BSA policies and methods. Ya think?

"I have a very good attitude." Yes you do.....and I look like Brad Pitt.

BW got the description of a "blog" correct. I will add that blog is short for "web log". The cyber culturalists started referring to web logs as blogs. In the beginning, it was basically a diary of thoughts by the blogger. Many still are. Some blogs have the ability for readers to comment on them.....which basically turns it into a forum the same as this forum. ASM1, I am WB trained. I loved it. I highly recommend it to every Scouter I meet. I hope to staff a WB course in the future. Having said that, I will say that while it is desirable, it is not necessary to running a successful unit. WB is in large part a leadership development course. It is similar to many of the same types of courses that employers spend mega bucks sending employees to. Most of what was presented to me in WB was presented to me in several other courses my employers have sent me to over the years. The difference for me was that I actually got to CHOSE to go to WB instead of a boss telling me to go to a course. It made all the difference in what I got out of the course. Same material, different results. Difference.....me. WB is great, but make it mandatory and people will resent it. It would also start being dumbed down and shortened to accomodate people. Making WB mandatory would kill WB in the long run. BTW, I know you can't read every post in every thread; but Laurie has stated in other threads her strong desire and future intention to go to WB. Right now with a house full of preschool thru grade school kids has her priority at home instead of spending two weekends away. Give her a break. The units I'm familiar with have a good number of military men in them. Most want to go to WB, but can't commit to a course several months down the road as they don't know whether they will have to report half way across the country or the world. Some folks I know have to seriously think about whether they can afford the cost. Fortunately for me, cost was not a concern. Others are not so lucky, even with it only running around $150 in my council. I appreciate your concern for the health of units and the real need for training. But you seem to be a "glass half empty guy" when you discuss training. I'm sure your district trainer would be more than happy to sign you up to teach a class and to recruit people to come to it. If you want to effect real change, start at your local district level and help it to spread council wide. Then worry about spreading it outside your council. Take the virus approach instead of the baseball bat approach. Until the BSA tells me that people are not trained until they take WB, I will consider them trained when they complete the courses that BSA says they need. In the meantime, I will encourage those folks to consider making every effort to go to WB. They won't be sorry they did it, but they will survive without it.

TwoCub, There are times when public humiliation can be a very good thing. Some folks just don't get it and continue with their bad behavior even after having it pointed out to them quietly. Then it is time to pull out the big stick and humiliate them publically. It should be a last resort, but it can be effective. There was a reason people used to be put in stocks in the public sqaure or have to wear a scarlet letter. This man's actions are just a variation of bullying. He is a MAN and he will by golly say and do as he pleases! But like a bully, often all it takes is someone actually standing up to them publically to back them down. I've seen this done before and it was very effective.

The BSA considers you "trained" and able to wear a "Trained" patch when you have completed Youth Protection, New Leader Essentials and Leader Specific Training. For Boys Scouts, part of the Leader Specific is the Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills course. That is the bottom line of training according to BSA. All other training provided is desirable and more icing on the cake. Wood Badge is preferred, but not required to be considered trained by BSA standards. Having said that, let me encourage everyone to go to WB as soon as the are able to make the commitment. You will be glad you did.

Acco, I can't imagine that they would turn you down. They as a business do not descriminate based on those things towards customers. Remember the old days when blacks had to sit in the back of the bus or couldn't swim in the public pool. I think their policy is that all paying customers are welcome and won't be turned down. I would have a hard time believing that they are going to question customers or non-profits as to their leanings before providing them a service. I imagine any questioning of a non-profit is to make sure that their generosity isn't being taken advantage of I could be wrong.

FOG, That is because the Scouts in the 60's looked like a walking junkyard with everything hanging on the outside of the pack instead of inside the pack. Same amount of gear, just inside instead of outside.

Pack, It is not just the boys!

FOG, Perhaps a nice campout where you can commune with nature for a while is in order.

Having never been in another district or council, I don't really have any way to compare. But the answer is yes! We have a very active district and help is available to anyone who asks for it. I believe the unit commissioner function had fallen flat, but there has been a huge puh to recruit commissioners, getting them assigned and getting them out in the units. Until this year, many units had no idea what a unit commissioner was or who their UC was. Not so anymore. Our new UC has been to our last three troop committee meetings. In our pack, the UC came and assisted with our Pinewood Derby. Both offered help with our recharter. Our DE is responsive and overworked. The council loses as much paperwork as they process. That seems to be true of every council. We've learned to make copies of everything since we know we will be re-submitting it at least once. I had attended all of my training for my pack position and even attended Wood Badge before the council found my SECOND registration form and got it approved by national! Maybe we have an exceptional district, but the help is available if a unit will just ask. With the UC's making visits, we hope to catch the ones who fail to ask before it is too late. I'm betting that Barry (EagleDad) will argue over which of our districts is the best in our council.

OK, I'm going to pick a nit or two here. FOG didn't "find" it. Many people are aware of it. I saw it at least a year ago when we were looking at re-doing our Pack web site. The national site has a search feature and a site map too if I remember correctly. The fact is that not each piece of information can all be on one page staring us in the face. Sometimes we have to look around, search and click on a few links to get where we are going. That is true with any web site. I can't tell you how many times I've sent my son after something only for him to tell me he can't find it. I walk in and find it immediately because rather than walk into the room and cast a glance, I actually look under a few other things and hold it up for him to see. I put in a little more effort than he did and got the results I wanted. If I can't find what I need on the internet, I send an e-mail or make a call to the Council office and get an answer.

OGE, DOH! My bad. I should have been more specific. I need the Summer Solstice secret ritual to use at summer camp. Seriously folks. Most documents are readily available. Some you might have to ask to see. But around my council, that isn't a problem. If a document pertains to the charter between the charter organization and the BSA, there is no real reason for the BSA to hand me a copy when I register with a unit. I thought we had been over this before?

I lost my copy of the blood letting ritual for new boys....does anuone have a copy they could let my borrow? Not the one when the moon is new, but the one when the moon is full.

FOG, Since when did turning in your popcorn money become a "rule". It is an announcement. "Guys, we start taking orders on the 5th and will sell until the 20th. All money nees to be turned in at the 25th's troop meeting. Delivery will be the 5th of next month. Any questions? No? good, get out there and start selling!" I don't want to be with a Troop that says you will turn in all money by the 25th or the jackbooted popcorn storm troopers will hunt you down and you will be forever banished from the BSA! You might want to lighten up on the rules and just announce what needs to be done. We find most everyone willing to cooperate with the plans as announced.

I second Dan's motion. It is open for interpretation until SPLT15 comes back and provides more detail. I'm also wondering if the nuisance comment does not mean a highly motivated boy who keeps bugging the boy leadership to test him. I got a little irritated at our last Troop meeting. My son is working on Tenderfoot. He has been working on knots during their skill session and he has been working on knots at home using a book for reference. Our ASPL is his Troop Guide. My son had a length of rope in his pocket and forgot about it until after the meeting. They had not worked on knots that night, but he cam e prepared. The SPL and ASPL were still there after the meeting shooting the breeze. I urged him to go back in and ask if he could demonstrate the knots he needed to tie. He walked up to them and waited, not wanting to interrupt. I was standing about 20 feet away and watching. They never once acknowledged him in over 5 minutes, even though he was the only other person in the room, standing 3 feet away and looking right at them. Then the SM appeared and ran us all out so he could lock up. I don't know, but I'm assuming that these two boys who are around 15 and 17 saw this 11 year old as a nuisance too, even though he was obviously waiting quietly and patiently to speak to them. While he would have liked to get a couple of items marked off, it was not too big a deal to him as he knew he would have another chance the next week. If he is blown off again, this ASM will talk to the SM about having our boy leaders make themselves accessable to the new boys.