skeptic

We had spent four days camping during spring break, three adults and a half dozen scouts. All week we, the adults, had been feasting, as we planned very well. And, all week the boys ate their mediocre or worse suppers, then gazed longingly while we ate. Last night out, we had spaghetti planned, including a fancy tomato based sauce. To this day not sure where my mind was, but I neglected to rinse the spaghetti, but instead thought I would save time by using its water to make the sauce. So, I stirred it all together, and we all savored the great aroma, then let it sit while we finished up the rest. Came time to eat, and we broke out the paper plates (we were not exactly being ecological examples, as we were burning our plates and bowls .....hanging head)for our feast. The spoon had been left in the pot sticking out from under the lid, and when I went to dish some out to one of the others, it almost did not move through the pasta. I managed to pry and dish out three servings, and we started to eat. It stuck to the forks, once we got it off the plate, and it was like chewing tar (though the flavor was pretty good). Well, after a few minutes, we gave up and simply threw the plates with pasta on the fire. Now it was April at 4500 feet in the mountains, and we had a very warm fire. To this day, I can still picture my plate, with this large glob of orange pasta in its center, sitting on top of the large central log. An hour later, the glob was still there, though the plate had disappeared. Have often wondered if anyone has ever investigated the properties of pasta starch as a fire retardant. Of course, the boys did not let us forget either, especially since they too had had pasta, and it came off without a hitch.

Hello David; I did not receive anything from the president at the time, Eisenhower, and there was no certificate, only a card. The card is signed by Eisenhower however, and I can scan it if you would like. Do not know when they started issuing the larger certificates, as well as a card. I do have a letter signed by the CSE at the time. Let me know if any of this is pertinent to your current project. Hope all is well. If you are ever going to be in the So Cal area, let me know, and perhaps we can arrange a visit. YIS

For me, I hold to the more simplistic view that atheism, as defined, is not really possible; "denial of something as not real, indicates acceptance of its possibility". But, that is just me. So then, we have instead agnosticism, which is what I see in scouts that seem to be non believers, but still discuss its possibilities in some manner. And, often, older scouts tend to suddenly change their "belief structure" as they get older and are introduced to more options. We have a just turned 18 year old that, when he came in just short of 11, was pretty much a clone of his parents, especially his mom. When we were going over his Eagle app a couple weeks ago, he asked who should be his religious reference. He admitted then, that he is really questioning things, especially organized religion; but he still believes in God. So, he is searching for an answer that fits him today; and ten years from now, he will likely have a different point of view. Agnosticism is not a reason to deny a scout, as long as he is not in absolute denial. JMHO

Seems to me that troll or not, this subject has been discussed ad infinite um, and the horse must be dead by now. Perhaps it is time to simply bury it.

Come on folks; get a grip. Many old time scouters are no longer able to do more difficult or strenuous activities due to age related things, as well as physical condition. If they are willing to accept that, and find younger, better fit leaders to do that part of the program, while they use their experience and skills in other areas, so much the better. This "black and white" with no shades of "grey" is just not rational. Certainly the CSE and Mr. Perez have put in their time in other ways, and still have very much to offer still. Having met Tico, I feel confident that he is dedicated and will lean over backwards for the program and the boys that are in it. Just my opinion of course.

Seems to me that they are simply encouraging them as an organization with some similar central ideals. If I understand the AHG correctly, they were formed as a counter to the radical direction skew, as seen by many, of the Girl Scouts. It is far too early to really give opinions, but they seem to be growing.

"American Heritage Girls" has been discussed here, mostly in the Political threads, and also in the Girl Scout thread. Yes, it was one of the peripheral groups prominent at the Jambo this summer. Was pleased to see them there. Was surprised to see nearby the Unitarian church; they were very positive and claimed the controversies noted here the past year or two were overblown and the result of a small group within the larger organization. Our scout store is currently selling the AHG uniforms and materials; apparently the only place they are available in our area. They have had people come from long distances to buy stuff, as they are not staffed well enough to handle shipping.

Just came home from an Eagle BOR; another bright young man that gives me hope for the future. That is why!!!!

No one has answered my question about the water availability on such a hike. Is this all non potable water, or is some of it potable with proper treatment? I am not familiar with the area, but reading a bit about it, it says something about a freshwater outlet to the ocean. That is the reason for my query. Thanks.

Say it again!!!!!!!!

Big question for me, as I am not familiar with the area; but a look up says it is often under water in places during part of the year. Should I presume that since it was hot, the under water part was not as likely? And, since it has so much water, is that water drinkable with proper filtration and treatment? Just wonder.

It looks as if electronic filing IS being recommended. The pdf is fillible and savable. They also are recommending a plan for faxes and so on in the council prep list. Looks as if you would not need to have a plan for in council overnights and so on, as long as they were within the council boundaries. But that might be the type you would file in a shorter time span by hand, while doing the longer one for more adventurous ones. Will have to see how our council reacts. I asked about it today, and they had no idea what I was talking about, or at least did not admit it.

Knowing when to say no, and sticking to it is important as a leader. I am fortunate to not have had any serious issues in that regard, but have had a couple times when I allowed a parent and boy to convince me to let him go, and it was a problem. The weekend outing was pretty minor, but Philmont could have been a real disaster. We managed to get him through, but it required more patience than at least one leader, and a number of scouts had. We had to move him from one crew to another, and a number of times he held us up with his immaturity and difficulty in working through his soreness and tiredness. The good thing is that he made it through, and today talks about that as one of his highlights of scouting. But, I had seen the indications the boy at Philmont really was not ready; and I let others override my better judgment. Is this one of those cases? Hopefully, we will learn more soon. It is really a no win situation.

Not being a lawyer, I am amazed at the redundancies in the charges. I also really wonder how they can even list some of them, especially those lodged against the church. Certainly, proving that the hike was not "planned" properly, and that proper procedures were not followed may be the crux of the trial. I cannot imagine them doing this hike without having done preliminary hikes and considerable preparation and planning. And, of course, the idea that someone should not undertake this because it was hot is ludicrous, or at least to me. Still, they are counting on the jury falling for the sympathy card, and also the idea that BSA has deep pockets. JMO at this juncture, based on reading the charge as posted. Would be interested in the comments, off the record of course, of our resident legal experts.

Almost all the comments that were posted after the print story linked to the video were in support of the scouts. As noted, far too vague and, as usual, sensationalized. There now appears to be another mode of attack by those who would bring the BSA down; "death by a thousand pricks". Find whatever negative thing they can, then make sure that it gets featured in a very negative way to as many as possible. And do not even attempt to bring balance to the story. As was pointed out a number of times in the comments mentioned, scouting activities are overall "far" safer than other youth activities. But they still are hardly ever featured in these kind of stories. All we can do is continue to try and be as safe as we can, make sure we do not attempt things we are not trained and prepared for, and always be super aware of how our charges are acting and following proper procedures. But, no matter how hard we try, we will not eliminate all accidents or unforeseen health issues. Unless, of course, we simply do nothing at all that may have even a hint of danger. But then they will accuse us of making the kids even more unhealthy and prone to health problems, because we do not get them active enough. Very tiresome and disheartening.

These are the times where you earn your stripes as a leader; how you react to a very serious issue with a scout. Scouts are no different than other boys, other than they hopefully are exposed a bit more to positive examples. But they are still boys and young male adolescents. They make bad decisions, bend to peer pressure, and act out. How we react to them when they do, especially the more serious things like this, is our biggest challenge. It SHOULD NOT BE A KNEE JERK response. They are not throw-away's when they mess up. But we need to help them understand the depth of their mistake, and that it will have consequences. This could be turning point for the young man. Don't make it a reason to drive him away or brand him a failure. Find a fair punishment and encourage him to make amends and regain the pride in himself he would want, and that he wants from others. JMHO

Boys' Life reprints; show up fairly often on eBay. The most common ones are from the 70's, but occasionally some of the older ones in smaller format appear.

Much depends on how he has responded to his poor choices. He still has time to prove that he deserves to be an Eagle, though it may be that some additional time might be warranted to reinforce his demonstration of Scout Spirit, and to prove he has learned a hard lesson. One poor decision is not grist for complete disqualification; but certainly it is reason for a serious discussion with him regarding his mistake and so on. And, it should perhaps be a point of discussion in an actual board, though diplomatically done as delving into his lesson learned. We have had a couple of boys who made poor choices who became Eagle. One had plenty of time to prove himself prior to his completion. The other made his poor decision a few days before his scheduled board, as part of a group of graduates who pulled a stupid prank at their school that resulted in damage. He came forward immediately and admitted his guilt, and he made arrangements to pay his portion of the damages. But, it was a serious point of discussion in his board; but he personally breached the subject right at the start. He and I had had a very long discussion as to how he should handle the situation, and his bringing it up at the start was part of that counseling. He passed, and went on to spend a tour of duty in the service and has never had any problems since. Just my opinion and observations from a long tenure as a Scouter.

So, where did I suggest making this a scouting program. It was simply posted to hopefully make those reading here more aware of the problem. It is important to the age group with which we work. I really do not understand Seattle's comment. Some things posted are information only, not actual scout issues. It seems clear enough to me. JMHO

In our local district, we just found out that a recently passed Eagle, only 17, passed away after a year and a half fight with testicular cancer. His father asked that all of us be aware that this cancer is the worst one for young men between 15 and 35, and encourages parents and their teenage sons learn the signs to look for. If it is diagnosed early enough, the treatment success if pretty high; but once it reaches a certain stage, it is likely to be fatal. So, please Google it and counsel your sons on how to do self exams, and what other symptoms they should not just ignore.

Well, here is one the Kudu might like, as it relates to the ownership of the symbols and so on. I believe that technically, National has the "right" to remove the names of individuals from lists of honors and ranks, if they choose. Whether or not it has happened is vague. I do know that in our council, SB has been indirectly revoked by stripping the name and date from the list of recipients on file. When I was a scout eons ago, the fine print shown in the handbook stated that the badge could be taken back. "A Scout's honor is to be trusted. If he were to violate this honor, by lying, cheating, or not doing exactly a given task, when trusted upon his honor, he may be directed to hand over his "scout badge". So, the intent was stated at one time in the manual. The OP though seems more interested in some kind of public embarrassment, as the video he posted is a clip from "Branded". Unlikely to have any "formal" recension occur, as physically taking it back would be very difficult.(This message has been edited by skeptic)

Am watching the Amazon Mr. Scoutmaster right now; wondering if I can copy to a CD for use at a meeting. Thanks for the info on the availability. By the way, FMB is available on CD directly from the BSA; our scout store has it in the store, but can be ordered from Scoutstuff too.

Try searching for "vintage" boy scout uniforms. There are hundreds of images on the web. Good luck.

Just wondering if it may be time to take the 2010 Jambo thread down? Maybe you could replace it with a Bechtel one. Just a thought.

Still trying to find a copy of "Mr Scoutmaster". Anyone know where it can be located?