Sentinel947

I own a 3 pound synthetic bag, but I'm debating getting a smaller lighter bag. I've never got a bag wet in the weather in the 10 years I've been camping. JBlake, I've debated the wool blanket route for some shorter treks in the summer, but I doubt the viability in a place like philmont. Maybe if I got a thick enough blanket, but the goal is to get a smaller and lighter pack.

Looking into a down sleeping bag for backpacking. The lighter weight and smaller packing size over synthetics is appealing to me, the higher price point does not. I'm planning to take it to Philmont as well as use it for summer backpacking. I was wondering what suggestions anybody had for bags. So to summarize my questions are as follows. If you use a down sleeping bag while backpacking which one is it? What is the minimum temperature a sleeping bag should be for Philmont? Could I get away with a 40-45 degree bag? Or would that not be heavy enough for in the mountains? How much money would I be in for? -Thanks, Sentinel947

What are you talking about here?

G2SS seems pretty clear to me. Just because the country has changed doesn't mean the BSAs rules have. I'm no Prohibitionist but It's not that long a trip, everybody who's legally eligible to consume alcohol should have enough self discipline to go without for the trip.

Hello John! Thanks for getting re involved in Scouting! I'd argue that Eagle Scout is not the "supreme goal" of Scouting, but creating good young men of character is the goal. The process of earning Eagle Scout is certainly is part of that goal. While regulations say not to wear Eagle Rank Patch after 18, there isn't a uniform police who will come rip the patch off your pocket if you refuse to take it off. Personally I never wore my Eagle Rank patch, because I didn't receive the patch till after I was 18. As adult volunteers I believe we have a responsibility to model proper uniforms for the Scouts, even on some of the inane things. Ultimately it's not the Eagle rank patch that makes the Eagle, it's their experiences as a Scout that make the Eagle Scout who he is, and gives the award it's meaning. Yours in Scouting, Sentinel947

I have no experience with venturing crews. However I'd like to move this topic to either the Patrol Method Section or the Venturing Section. It's a little specific for Open Discussion. Anybody have a preference?

It was a question that could come up in a SMC before but why the sudden emphasis on it? I imagine those who already ask about it will continue to ask and those who don't ask now won't ask in the future. At least SMC's aren't supposed to be pass/fail right? So a Scout shouldn't get failed from a Scoutmasters conference for having the "wrong" answer to the Duty to God question right?

I agree with everything you said. I'm curious as to what you told that Scout about First aid? I wonder if I'd be the same thing I'd say. You reminded me of a truism my old Scoutmaster used back in 2005, "We are boy led, not boy led off the rails, and over the cliff."

Thanks, I'm an Eagle, but I'm not a due's paying member of NESA. (Which considering I volunteer with the Council level ESA, I probably should get on that....)

Any links to the document?

Stosh, when you put it that way, I think we agree more than we disagree. I do hear some of the "I need Eagle for college Application" "take it to the bank" talk. I think that comes from parents that don't understand what the goal of the program is. That and to be honest, Eagle isn't worth that much in the outside world, it's the worth it has to the individual who earned it. I value my Eagle highly, but not because of the requirements, but because of what I did as a Scout and what I continue to do as an ASM gives it meaning. To anybody who cares to read: I suppose my approach to Scoutmaster's Conferences and Eagle is one and the same. Scouts do the advancement and are signed off when completed. In my mind that's the only test needed. I don't feel like I need to protect the integrity of the advancement process other than verifying that book is signed. Another poster compared the Scout skills to high school classes and the "Use it or lose it" concept. I think retesting in Scoutmaster's conferences encourages Scouts to brush up their skills when they need to pass a Scoutmaster's conference, but if they don't need the skills in their normal Scouting activities they will forget the skills till they need them for another SMC. So in my troop I'm focusing on the Patrol Method, which I think will encourage the scouts to lead, be more involved and hopefully in due time, retain their skills better. When I was a Scout, my troop was a retesting during SMC troop. Some of the skills (knots in particular) were something I had to relearn for each Scoutmaster's conference, but never used in actual camping trips, so I never retained them. Now as an Assistant Scoutmaster in the same troop (which still retests during SMC's) I think for most of my Scouts the dynamic is in play. So rather than retest and lament at why my Scouts don't retain their skills, I want to attack the root of the problem, that our Troop program doesn't challenge the Scouts to use some of their skills.They won't upkeep skills they don't think are useful or necessary. I can't say that for every troop, but I believe that to be the case with my Troop. In general, besides the OP's drive by posting (Please update us!!!!!) I'm trying to summarize the topics that have been raised here if we'd like to start a new topic about any of them that would be a little more concise and focused. OP: Testing during Scoutmasters conferences, yay or nay? Other topics: Patrol Method Boy Led Sign offs for Advancement What makes an Eagle Scout an Eagle Scout? What makes a Boy Scout a Boy Scout? BSA Aims and Methods. Huge post. I apologize. I wanted to get a lot of thoughts out of my head at once!

All I said was that if a real eagle gets thrown in a fire it burns. Poultry left in a fire too long burns, whether it's origami, plastic or organic.

Aye, but real Eagles leave a trace in a campfire. Charred flesh and melted feathers.

That is really good MattR! Glad to see the light come on for your Scouts!

Stosh: What authority gives you the power to decide who the real and fake Scouts are?

I don't like the term paper Eagle. It's a slur people use to put down other troops programs. People who for whatever reason think they decide what the standard for a "real" Eagle Scout is. I'm not going to make judgments on other Troops programs. I worry bout mine. Our response to other Troops producing "Paper Eagles" is to follow the BSA's advancement rules and have good patrol method, boy led programs. I think the people who throw down their self righteous "paper Eagle" judgments have their own issues to worry about.

The BSA gives us a program to deliver to our Scouts. It's a promise (as Fred says) part of the promise is letting our boys have individual growth and leadership. The advancement program is also a promise. The skills are important, but when we start making up rules and procedures contrary to the program, we start making other amendments to the program like not using the patrol method. (Which happens to be where my Troop is at.) There is no procedure in the guide to advancement to retesting on Scoutmaster's conferences, period. That being said (hypocrite moment ahead!!!) My unit retests during Scoutmaster's conferences for rank advancement. It's been doing it since I joined the Troop as an 11 year old 10 years ago. I do not agree, but I'm not the Scoutmaster, so I can't make that change in my unit. I don't do SMC's unless I absolutely have to because I do not agree with retesting Scouts. I can't speak for all units, but my unit feel's pressure to retest because the Adults haven't trained the Scout's to put together a program that challenges the Scouts to keep up on their Scouting skills. The Adults in my troop do not trust the Scouts to test each other for their sign offs. I reject pass/fail retesting because it doesn't actually maintain proficiency. The Scout will simply brush up on the skill before a SMC and promptly forget the skill afterwards. Might as well not retest them. It's the same end result. If your troop retests Scouts and they actually retain the skills beyond the sign off and the SMC, you must be doing something in the program that keeps them up to date with their skills. As Eagledad said, judging other's programs is a dangerous and slippery slope. I do my best to assume that other Scouters are doing their best and mean well until given a reason otherwise. Even when I don't agree with them about various topics. Sentinel947.

Huh?

I'm using the camporee as an example of a general trend in the troop it's the only outing I have solid numbers for. As for letting them make that decision, I'm willing to, but I'm not the Scoutmaster, so I hope he will.

Haha, it's actually all really helpful to me. I've spent my whole "career" in this troop, and so it's really helpful to get other people's perspectives, if not on my situation, then the Patrol method more broadly.

BeaverBean: Welcome to Scouter.com! The comment you posted on is over 2 years old. There are some members here who loved Woodbadge, some who didn't and many of us who are still debating going. Yours in Scouting: Sentinel947

Mattman: I've read that book, it's excellent, I plan to lend my copy to the Scoutmaster this week. Eagledad: that's a great point, I have to be sure that all the Scoutmasters are on the same page about what changes will happen. To define backsliding what I meant that they will see the inevitable chaos that the Patrol method is and want to return to a more comfortable troop centered model.

Just to get a little background I'm going to reference an old thread. http://www.scouter.com/forum/open-discussion-program/408554-troop-training-ilst A few quick details. I'm an Assistant Scoutmaster. My troop is around 70 Scouts. We camp at least once a month. I'm entering my 10th year as either a Scout or Scouter all with this current Troop. In that thread I talked about how I volunteered to help my troop put on a leadership training weekend. When I was a scout we had used a similar program to the one discussed above. The camping trip was a success and the feedback from the Scouts was positive. Now a few months later the Scoutmaster and I have finally sat down and discussed the trip. Things are a little off kilter in my troop, and I believe it's because of the lack of our usage of the patrol method. For example: next month is a council wide camporee. We only have 40 of 70 boys going. Only 6 of the 40 are over the age of 14. The other adults seem to be on board that something needs to be changed. The Scouts seem enthusiastic about the greater autonomy and flexibility the Patrol Method brings over the "Troop Method" (finger quotes for emphasis), but I realize they really don't understand how it works in practice, because they've only experienced camping by the Patrol method in our Leadership Training Weekend (which was really a weekend to convince the skeptical) Has anybody been part of a troop that didn't use the patrol method and made this transition? Or took over a troop that made this transition? As far as I see my role in this transition is to keep Adults from backsliding, and help the Scouts learn how to run the patrol method themselves. A crucial bit is getting the SPL who is very powerful in my troop to be willing to delegate authority down the chain to the Patrol Leaders. So many variables and so many things to learn, any advice would be welcome. Yours in Scouting, Sentinel947

A spam bot posted in it. I have taken care of it.