SeattlePioneer

We just recruited a new adult to be our Advancement Chair, and the CC sent her an e-mail that reads in part:

Hello Own The Night, I think you have an excellent system. One double check I think is important would be the practice of sending the checking account bstatement to the Committee Chair or someone OTHER THAN the Treasurer. That ability to look over the unfiltered record of checks written and expenditures made is an excellent double check on what is happening. The Committee Chair can then forward the statement to the Treasurer after looking it over. That's a lot better check than the nuisance of having two signatures on checks, in my opinion. Also --- what controls do you have over payments to the pack in cash? I described our use of a receipt book that has three copies, one of which goes to the person making the payment, the second to the Treasurer and the third staying in the receipt book. It's real easy to get sloppy about habndling cash.

As discussed on other threads, a credit balance at the council office can sometimes be used by council personnel without the permission of pack officers. Its possible den leaders or others might charge stuff to the pack without permission. It is also very true that buying awards often gets pricey. I think the best method of controlling expenditures is for the treasurer to pay with a check when presented with receipts. But it is also very true this can be burdensome for volunteers. As I noted earlier, I've made it a practice to pay for receipts in cash at pack and den meetings, but that's not really the role of the Cubmaster either. I haven't seen a perfect system described yet...

She scouts Sea Scouts by the sea shore. Especially handsome ones, I suppose.

> Perhaps it is selfish of parents. Or perhaps they are simply suspicious of putting their son in the custody of people they don't know to engage in some kind of secret ritual they might not approve of. It doesn't matter. Frankly, I am PLENTY suspicious of the people posting here who prefer to exclude or pressure parents into not attending. I think such people are overinvolved, lack good judgment and are foolish. That goes double for people who think they should be able to fast talk parents out of attending and think they are being smart in attempting to justify that. After reading the amazing comments and justifications I see posted here, I am no longer surprised at the number of Scoutmaster who don't want to have anything to do with OA. I've pretty much been converted to that point of view by this discussion myself. (This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

Interesting thread --- reminds me of the story of the blind men and the elephant. What one "sees" depends on what one experiences, and the e3xperiences can vary widely. Personally, I guess I'm pretty lucky. I have a solvent council that has a Scout Executive that I've found to be top notch through personal experience, and has been significantly improving the council program and services. That's a terrific start! Just as examples, the council chose to pay for group insurance for all units out of its own funding. One of my personal hobby horses has been to try to find ways for primarily English speaking units to attract and keep more Hispanic/Lationo Scouting families --- after getting little help from the council with that in a year, the Scout Executive tossed off a couple of excellent program resources when I was at a meeting designed for volunteers to ask questions of the Scout Executive, Council President and Council Commissioner ---the council "key three." I work a lot at the district level. We have a new DE who is working hard and effectively. We are understaffed with volunteers at the district level and people are getting burned out. So we are hurting there. That is threatening to impair the services we provide to units, but that hasn't quite happened yet. We've been adding a few new volunteers at the district level, thanks primarily to the new DE finding some new people. We need more. As a district leader, I look at units and often see a lack of support for the district. But when I ask unit leaders for help, I get it fairly often. I am hearing about more weak units that need help, and I have little help to provide --- I'm stretched too! We had two district leaders at a district training session Saturday, and Cubmaster who helped with training (bless him!) We did a high quality training job, and I did the same training for the one Tiger Cub Den Leader who showed up that I did for 25 people at our council training a month ago. But where were the rest of the Tiger Cub Den Leaders? They NEED that training, by and large! The units NEED those people trained in order to have a quality program for their new families. And those new families are the future for the unit, district and council! I'm also a Cubmaster. I've spent three years building up my pack from being on the edge of failure with one boy left in it to a unit that is still struggling but has a quality program and a number of quality leaders. Our main problem is gettinmg our unit parents to take an effective role in providing unit leadership. Even there people are probably more willing to help if they are asked effectively and they are willing to get started with training and taking charge. So I'm pretty lucky. I've really got the resources I need to do things, but I'm spread too thin and I suffer from finmding it easier to do things myself rather than taking time to find and train new volunteers.

Personally I hated collecting dues with a passion. Good in theory but a heck of a nuisance in practice. Sounds like lazy pack management to me. It's a wonder the den leaders didn't go on strike.

Hello Acco, Sorry, but bin my opinion BSA rules require that parents who wish be allowed to observe ***any*** BSA youth activity. Discouraging such attendance strikes me as directly violating that rule. The idea that discouraging parents doesn't violate the rule strikes me as being a willfully bad judgement. Anyone who can't figure that out should not hold an OA adult leadership position, in my opinion. I'm not the OA Policeman. I'm one Scouter with my own opinion/interpretation. But any OA adult leader who would discourage a parent in any way has terribly bad judgement and would worry me about other bad decisions he might be making. It's a trivial issue. Adults who are wrapped up in it aren't dealing with reality.

Personally, I avoid flag ceremonies for Cub Scouts that involve marching around. Just too complicated for the Cub Scout I'm acquainted with. I have two flag ceremonies I use: 1) Use a large flag and have WScouts unfurl it paralell to the ground. As many people as practical are invited to hold on to a convenient part of the flag with their left hand and salute/hand over heart with their right hand for the pledge. 2) A den or group of Scouts and adults hold the flag aloft on a pole, each holding the pole with their left hand while saluting/hand over hearting for the pledge. Both of these often put people together with a degree of intimacy with each other and the flag. Much more personal and simpler.

I did a Veteran's Day ceremont at our October Pack meeting --- the closest to the holiday. Our opening ceremony included a pretty loud recording of naval gunfire, followed by a band playing "To The Colors" as a prelude to our flag ceremony. I explained the history of the holiday, then invited veterans to come forward to be recognized. We had a vet of the Iraq war and of the Korean War. Our third vet was working that night. A year ago he was in northern Afghanistan as a Navy SeaBee and former Marine. His wife cared for the family's three small children --- and ran our popcorn sale as well. I invited the whole family to come forward to be recognized, since I think they qualified as veterans at home. I was pretty pleased with that. I don't think we recognize and honor our vets often enough. I wonder how many times the Korean War vet has been publicly recognized for his service in the past sixty years?

Personally I would keep Old Ox away from any OA leadership position. He makes excuses to avoid carrying out BSA policies that are there for good reason, in my opinion.

> It's called being "tactful." It's not part of the Scout Law but it's certainly a part of being helpful, friendly, courteous and kind. And yes, you are very likely to grow into this virtue as you age.

Fred makes a good point that you want to avoid burdening leaders when you can. Personally, I've paid off receipts from den leaders upon request and turned in the receipts myself to the treasurer. I front $150 cash to use as change when the popcorn sale got started and was reimbursed from cash from sales. I turn in a sheet of paper on which I list each receipt and amount and number each item sequntially. I write the sequence number on the receipt to make it easy for the treasurer to connect up the receipts and understand the purpose of the purchase. At least as important as expenses is accounting for sales and cash receipts to the pack, such as for membership, activities and such. For that I use a receipt books with three copies of each receipt. One copy is given to the person paying the money. A second copy is sent to the treasurer along with the payments, and the third copy remains with the receipt book as my record. That way everyone is protected, and the treasurer is as well informed as practical that all payments are being accounted for.

The top executives of Washington Mutual were probably as guilty as anyone in negligently managing a 100 year old bank right into failure and being sold off. The Federal prosecutors announced there was not enough evidence of criminal activity to justify charging any of them with criminal action. However, the Feds have gone after them and their money and assets on a civil basis. Frankly I'm not interested in self serving claims by the FBI. Federal prosecutors simply haven't found the basis for criminal charges. The simple fact is that many decades of rising housing prices and government encouragement of debt made everyone sloppy, careless and stupid. That's why bubbles happen. We have other similar bubbles developing right now that no one is willing to deal with ---- the student loan bubble and the hospital -medical care bubble are two examples among many. These are things that are going to fail sooner or later. But right now ---- WHEEE! Go for it!

What! You guys haven't completed the new "Camping in Earthquake Country" supplemental training you need to go camping? Hie thee to "MyScouting.Org" ASAP! By the way --- this is a joke. At least it is today.

My district has a Sea Scout Ship registered. It about a 43 foot ketch or cutter (two masted) sailboat. A year ago I hiked my Cub Scout pack past their seabase and we took a tour of their 40'x60' warehouse that they use for storing stuff and off ship activities. Ship members also came out to our Cub Scout Daycamp each day this summer (theme: "Cub At Sea") to put on different programs each day. They have a great program and are an asset to the district and council. A couple of Seascout leaders made a pitch to Scouters at a council meeting a couple of months ago. One was a retired USN Admiral, and the other a retired USNR Admiral. The USNR Admiral related that he was informed that he made Admiral when he received a phone call with that news from Eagle Scout and President Gerald Ford, who told him he expected him to keep up his good work with Sea Scouts. Decades later, he still is.(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

I turned in my rechartering packet last year explicitly NOT qualifying for the award last year, but I notice I was credited with it anyway. With the new, more complicated requirements, I imagine it will be just as easy to qualify for the JTE as last year, and ever higher standards will give the illusion that my pack is doing great.

Here in Seattle the "occupy" folks are trying to recruit homeless people to occupy their tents while they go home to a warm home. They aren't having much success, since the homeless seem to prefer their nice warm shelters. It's degenerating into a pointless and corrupt sideshow. If they were smart they would fold up their tents and go home. At this point, I'd like to see them stay myself. They are demonstrating their ability to take our most important and public downtown park and turn it into a seedy slum.

I like the attitude described by Tampa Turtle. I tend to be of the opinion that Scout camps were probably the first merit badge mills and remain the most pervasive merit badge mills. There are some Scouts who chase merit badges like a hound dog after a rabbit, and that's fine. But I'd discourage leaders and families from pressuring Scouts into taking loads of merit badges. In my opinion, Scout camp should be fun but not an idyll. Usually the biggest challenge of summer camp is the stress of living together as a group for a week. Differences that can be papered over on a week end camp tend to come to the fore about Thursday, and adult and Scouts can be challenged to find ways to live and thrive together. Everything from maintaining your campsite to taking showers starts to mature as an issue about that time!

Personally, I take great pride in my Tiger Cub Den Leader knot. The sunny orange color stands out from other knots, at least to my eyes. And I use that knot when I'm teaching the Tiger Cub Den Leader Training and summer Tiger Twilight Camp in the hope that additional adults will be motivated to become Den Leaders.

I'd be strongly inclined to invite him to participate. The behavior of ANY new adult volunteer should be scrutinized, and that goes triple for those who aren't parents. (I say that as a non parent volunteer myself). But that shouldn't prevent them from being part of the program unless an actual reason of some kind surfaces. Checking people's references, particularly from non parent adult leaders, is worthwhile. Checking with the troop the young man belonged to would be an excellent reference to check.

See if the former SM will serve as Commissioner.

Only four more posts to get to 200...

A bad idea, in my opinion.

Heh, heh! FINALLY --- this thread dropped off the "Active Topics page....