KitCarson

Back in the day, the Leadership Corps once roasted cornish game hens on wooden spits for their breakfast -- the morning after a troop snipe hunt that they had scheduled as an event. And of course, they made certain that their site was central to the camp so that everyone got to watch and smell the aroma.

"No reason the Patrol Boxes couldn't be used to store a pair of Kudu's Cook Group Kits (KuduKits?). Then the folks who made them woulddn't need to feel bad, their creations are still being used. Heck, could still use the boxes dump camping, it's just that the Scouts are pulling Whisperlites and aluminum pots out intead of Green Coleman's and Dutch Ovens." Exactly. Here's another question. How do you store your troop and patrol camping equipment between treks? Do you have a dedicated SECURE area, or is it an area accessable to multiple groups? If the latter, you need secure storage co

"The reaction to moving your Troop away from plywood boxes, once established, can get surprisingly personal. " The reactions to facts that contradict a fanatic's particular view can become embarrassingly childish. I'm old enough that I no longer waste my time on too-tall children.

"I'm getting some great ideals from you folks, so a big thanks your way. The goal is not to train "snipers", but hunters. If one is able to place tight group at, say 500 yards, than it should be possible to hunt deer, and make one shot kills at 100 yards with no problem. Or, if hunting prong horns or muley's in the high desert with shots out to 600 to 800 yards, one would have an understanding of estimating range, and windage. Of knowing when, and when not to take the shot to avoid wounding an animal... " If you are training hunters, train them in how to stalk the animal and get close, no

"Plywood boxes will always require more trips than backpack "containers" because boxes are a fixed size. " That's a generalization, not a fact. You are stuck on the concept of the traditional, stand up "chuck boxes" that doubles as a table and pantry. A smaller box intended strictly for storage and transportation of only the galley equipment is much more portable. ""Always" with the pledge that they will spend more money for a second set of equipment for backpacking, but some day in the future "when the boys get older."" Even your zealot Grier admits that to be untrue. From his

Kudu, "The personal gear is emptied at the destination, with a second quarter-mile trip to pack in the Group Gear Bags. " So, without containers, 300 feet is actually FORTY times harder than 15 feet. That's what I have been saying all along. Of course you can always drop the patrol equipment at the camp site via car. boomerscout, That's pretty much what I was saying, the only difference is in the box material. I favor plywood, because all of my outdoor experience has been at high altitudes in the southwest, and the intense sunlight and temperature extremes (cold as w

OK. Let's just call it hyperbole rather than propaganda -- same goal, but it sounds more benign. Packing all those pots, pans, utensils, stoves, tents, flies, groceries, and water 300 feet as separate items rather than in containers is least 20 times harder than packing them 15 feet. Your point????

"Here is a good side by side comparison of "Old Style" versus "Lightweight Style" Troop camping: http://www.inquiry.net/outdoor/equipment/lightweight_camping.htm" Nope. That's a propaganda rant from a zealot. It's just as biased as the guy who insists that all cooking must be done over a wood fire in order to qualify as scoutcraft, and just as erroneous.

A lot of the damage/loss of gear occurs during storage and transportation. This is why unit boxes are important. It keep the gear together, and protects it when not in use, assuming that proper procedures such as drying out tents and cleaning takes place before storage. A plywood box is not heavy -- it's what you put in it that adds the weight. A properly-designed patrol kitchen (not chuck) box that contains aluminum pots and modern stoves in place of cast iron is easily packed 300 feet by two scouts. Ditto a camping box containing tent(s), fly, and associated gear. Consumables are packed

I lived in the Santa Fe area, and got up there once for a training weekend. I had just enough time between classes to LOOK at the Tooth of Time and go to the store. That's why the thirty-five year old bull on my jacket doesn't overlap the seam, nor will the one on my new jacket.

"Could Philmont and the surrounding area absorb the 50-60 thousand or so participants and related staff without changing its charactor? " Philmont covers 137,500 acres, the National Scout Reserve a mere 10,000 acres.

They already own at least one alternate site large enough for a NJ. It's called Philmont.

Even if you lose the equipment at this point, you have gotten the use of it for several years. As you say, had it been donated, it would have suffered from mission creep and wandered away or been broken. As a result, you would be in the same situation either way -- worrying about equipment. I plan on loaning some equipment to a startup scout troop for much the same reason. I don't want it becoming the property of the Charter Organization, because the odds of the troop succeeding are slim, and the next troop that I work with will no doubt have more need for equipment than some member of th

"WELCOME BACK! Yeah, I bet things have changed since you were active," Yes, quite a few things have changed, but some things remain constant. People are still feuding over scout pants; too many twits take advanced training, get their tickets punched, and keep right on running the troop as though they are the SPL; and the program in general is continuing its slow slide towards being a glorified baby sitting service. "Do a few community projects that really benefit the community, and it's better than having a tv commercial for your unit. A few community members will step up here

It sounds as though many here (and the SM in question) missed a golden opportunity to enlist the mother as an ally. I believe that the ideal response would have been to give the mother the information about patch placement, then ask her to HELP turn this into a learning experience for the scout by forcing him to go out and get the information from his patrol leader or other sources (and tell her about those sources). Let her know that she has the correct information so that she can ensure that he has accomplished his task correctly. Explain how this dovetails with the Scouting Program.