SeattlePioneer

> That's right, they are all adults. A reminder about how they can be exploited by the media is in order, in my opinion. Reporters aren't calling around to retired Scouters and Scouting professionals just to pass the time of day.

I sure don't expect to see someone chosen to head Planned Parenthood propose to eliminate abortions, or the head of the ACLU propose to quit filing lawsuits against organizations putting Christmas displays on public property. It doesn't surprise me that there are different opinions on important policy questions reflected in the top leadership positions of Scouting however. It's what I would expect.

Hello resqman, > Personally, I wouldn't make any exceptions. It's just a bad example for the Scouts to do for the adults. The same thing is true with the one big tarp for all, in my opinion.

So it's fine for news media types to call BSA retirees looking for dirt but it's NOT OK for BSA to communicate with ITS OWN retirees to discourage comments that might prove damaging? THAT sounds hypocritical! I can just imagine reporters trying to engage bored retirees in reminiscing about their past in Scouting, and then parsing every syllable later on for something critical to print. Sounds like a smart move to me! \

Hello Abel, The Journey to Excellence requires a minimum 1:6 ratio of Commissioners to units. That's for Bronze. If you got that for last year it sounds like it would be a Miracle like the Virgin birth! Commissioner Service: Increase the number of registered unit commissioners over prior year. Brionze: Commissioner-to-unit ratio of 1:6, or 5% increase in the number of commissioners over prior year Silver: Commissioner-to-unit ratio of 1:4, or 1:6 ratio and 5% increase in the number of commissioners over prior year Gold: Commissioner-to-unit ratio of 1:3, or 1:4 ratio and 5% increase in the number of commissioners over prior year 25 50 100

When you have a table at a back to school night or other such activity, two things are required to make it a success in my experience: 1) An intrinsically fun activity that boys and parents can be drawn int to do in a couple of minutes 2) Someone with the soul of a carnival barker out fron to steer people in to do your activity. For Cub Scouts, I find that hammering a nail into a board is a simple fun activity. Steer parents into your table and let them coach their boy on hammering a nail. Completing that gives you the opportunity to invite the boy and family to your meeting or better yet to get the name and phone number of the family so that you can invite them to upcoming activities repeatedly.

I seemed to recall that there was a Book Binding Merit Badge. There was, but it's been discontinued. Perhaps that was a mistake. A summer camp or troop exercise could be rebinding a failing Scout handbook. I wonder how practical that would be? Does anyone have the Book Binding Merit Badge among their accomplishments?

> Ummm. Personally I think a parent might reasonably object to a youth playing tackle football for a team. There's a pretty high risk of serious injury there, compounded by too many coaches who allow a desire to win trump concern for the interest of a player. Learning to fly seems quite reasonable. My parents allowed my older brother to learn rock and ice climbing with the Seattle Mountaineers. He was killed in an avalanche at age 15, fifty years ago. Parents are supposed to use their judgment in deciding what their children do. That judgment can be wise or foolish.

So the model of behavior being endorsed here seems to be that it's just FINE for BSA and other organizations to have RIGID, UNCOMPROMISING rules which leaders are trained in and told to follow, but are expected to ignore in practice. I'm not in favor of such rules. I think they are foolish. But putting leaders in the position of ignoring them makes it convenient to blame the leaders whenever something goes wrong. That is dishonest and unfair, in my view. It's also possible that there could be reasons for such rules, and that if followed they would deter people from adopting bad patterns of behavior. That POSSIBILITY would require an Xpert to comment on and evaluate. Personally, I don't care much for being the fall guy and blamed because, you know, you SHOULD HAVE FOLLOWED THE RULES IN WHICH YOU WERE TRAINED.

Hello Eagle, I await hearing the reply you get with interest. Personally, I think it's important that their poor product be THEIR expense and not that of some Scout. I have a Scout belt with a brass buckle. The friction bar is worn and wont hold. I asked about that at the Scout shop and they recommended buying a new belt. I think I should take it in and expect a replacement under their guarantee.

A corporate leader the progressive left can fawn upon.

Sure.

The first time I did the rechartering I really had a bad experience because of lack of experience. The second time was bad, but not AS bad. Experience is probably the best friend someone rechartering has. New people need training and a Dutch Uncle who is experienced who can help work through the pitfalls. That ought to be the Unit Commissioner, but judging from the Unit Commissioner thread that's not there in a lot of cases. The previous person who did the rechartering might be that Dutch Uncle if they are available. The District Executive would be the default Dutch Uncle. Who might your unit call upon for advice in completing their recharter?

> Well now Basement. Even the official Saints are sinners. Personally, one of the things I ADMIRE about Christianity is that it has VERY high standards of behavior people are expected to aim for and achieve, even while recognizing that we are all sinners and will fail at achieving the expected behavior. Nevertheless, the high standards are still expected no matter how many times we fail. PLANNING to continue your sinful ways is not acceptable behavior. The good Christians I observe do their best to live by very high moral standards even though they fail to achieve those standards. They reflect about those weaknesses and failures and resolve to try to do better in the future. That tends to have better results than those who have low or no standards of moral behavior and don't care a fig about such things --- or perhaps boast about such behavior and try to persuade others to adopt it as well. In short, the world is a LOT better off with Christianity than without it, in my opinion.

Sad.

> What does this mean? Only unworthy adults are selected to be Scout leaders?!

Hello Abel, So you have a "Key Two"? In what kind of shape is the District Committee?(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

Hello Baden P, Well, I'm not a Catholic for openers. I haven't been belligerent to Lisabob, either. You are welcome to your opinions about AHG. I've considered them and found them unpersuasive. It appears to be the best way for my Cub Pack to add a Scouting type program for girls, but I will be investigating the organization further as part of the decision making process.

I would say this is an expression of American secularist values. You don't appear to want BSA and AHG units to provide common programs because AHG has a clear bias towards Christianity. My reaction as a non secularist is, "So what?" I see no reason why a Cub Pack and AHG unit shouldn't combine or cooperate in presenting a joint program. You are certainly entitled to your preferences, and I'm entitled to start a joint Cub Pack and AHG chartered program. We simply disagree.

So--- What are the Unit Commissioners in your district up to? If you are a Cub Pack, Scout Troop or other unit, do you have a Unit Commissioner assigned to your unit, and if so do they help your program to work better?

Yes, Lisabob, you are part of the coalition of secularists who want to narrow the places and ways that religion can be practiced or expressed in the public square. Generally speaking, secularists prefer that religion not extend outside homes and churches if they have their way. And as these discussions illustrate, secularists would like to extend their values right into churches themselves where Scouting is concerned. The most powerful methods used by secularists to enforce their cultural values are the courts, and they generally oppose having the political branches make such decisions. But even if they can't get the courts to enforce their values, they will act themselves and through political and cultural groups to enforce such policies on religious groups that dare to operate in the public square. For a better discussion of these issues, I recommend "The Naked Public Square" by Richard Neuhaus.

All the Scouts in my units are little ANGELS!

Needless to say, the process of rechartering has been burdened by additional training requirements such as YPT and requiring that leaders be "trained." This forces those doing rechartering, already a thankless task, to be the policeman of these policies and to run around in units giving people warnings that they have to9 do this, that or the other thing. Frankly, I've been right of the edge of chucking the whole thing because of the burdens imposed on me to complete rechartering. I wonder how many units fail to recharter because of burdensome requirements? I wonder how many units recharter with the minimum number of adult leaders in order to avoid the burden of getting more adults registered? My advice to BSA on this issue: Don't Push Your Luck by continuing to impose ever more restrictions on rechartering.

> This is the common prejudice of the secular left. It represents the ignorance of those who have lost any real knowledge or understanding of religion and its history. There are plenty of rational arguments against homosexuality, which is why it represents the values of the overwhelming majority of the people of the world. Against that we have a competing set of values representing "new knowledge" developed by some scientific disciplines. That new knowledge is slowly informing and changing values in many societies, usually beginning with educated elites at the top of society. Just because you have "new knowledge" doesn't mean that the "old knowledge" isn't rational. What you have is political, social, scientific and cultural competition between those different value schemes. Of course those educated elites are used to dictating cultural values to everyone else, and when they don't get their way they get frustrated and angry. That's where we are with BSA. But that represents either impatience or a fundamentally flawed idea. Take your pick.

Hello Dean,