sctmom

Bob, how does the committee come to a decision when one has to be made?

"but the reality of the situation is that many parents just don't want to lay out $40 for pants and another $40 for shorts so jeans are permitted. " And how much to blue jeans cost where you live? The brand names cost $40.00 or more. Also, with the wonderful world of EBAY, you can get seldom worn scout pants at half the original cost. I also want to know how many of those parents who don't want to lay out the $40 have their kids in sports where 40.00 is on the beginning.

With scouttrack.com are parents of Webelos restricted to only entering achievements that are to be done with the family or can they enter anything?

Den Leader responsibility in the Pack includes: Take part in the annual pack program planning conference and pack leaders' meetings. (Which I assume is more than just show up.) Reporting on progress of an assignment is not the same as making a pack decision. Our Cubmaster and past Committee Chair ran ideas past the committee and den leaders, mainly out of courtesy and to get a feel if it would work. No one would say "oh, I handle the fundraiser and you all do it THIS way". But on the other hand when someone was crowned Popcorn Kernel, we left him to do his work. If he had questions about decisions then he would run it past other adults. The troop committee meetings I have set in on are not to override what the boys want to do (unless a safety problem), but to make sure adults were assigned to making sure the boy's plans were carried out. You do need an adult to make reservations with a credit card. Decisions were discussed and agreement reached as a consensus. If you just coudn't live with the decision, you better speak up. No formal votes taken, but if someone had a valid objection, the decision was discussed more. If the boys want to go to the same cave every year, then let them. But suggest other places to go caving.

Geez, I don't know the official answer off the top of my head, but I like to have them "just in case". Yes, I know the parents are there. But what happens when the parent and child are hurt? Asking people to fill out the Class One medical form is not a big inconvenice. There was a case I heard of a few years ago where a father and son on a Cub Scout campout both died during the night because they had some type of heater in their tent. I think you would want that contact information handy if such a tragedy happened.

In something I was looking at that was written in the 40's or 50's, "oleo" was listed as a food group. LOL Go ask the kids if they have eaten their "oleo" today. Not OREO! Even though I think chocolate is a basic food group.

Sorry OGE, but I have to poke fun at your remark about Atlanta in 1850. Atlanta didn't exist until after General !@$%@#$ Sherman marched through and burnt down Marthasville. Also, it would be horrible to hold today's Atlanta residents to something that happened 150 years ago in the south --- I live in the Atlanta area and am surrounded by Yankees. My sweet, southern drawl is almost gone! Bye y'all, ya come back ya hear, I'm fixin' to go fix supper. NJ, I like the joke -- A Biologist, a Theologian, and a Psychologist walk into a bar.... Or they are on the same life boat? Or stranded on an island together?

Our political elections are popularity contests. Why did Nixon lose to Kennedy? Because Nixon looked bad on TV (or so I've been told, wasn't around..hehehe). Kennedy was good looking and represented what people wanted to be. It's tough with kids to learn we don't always win. Just don't do like happened at my school one time, the teacher walked into the classroom after cheerleading tryouts and said "The following 3 girls did NOT make the squad." Well, thanks a lot, just put a big L on their heads okay. Yes, everyone would have known if the winners had been named, but that really lacked tact.

Requirement 4a Help plan a patrol menu for one campout -- including oen breakfast, one lunch, and dinner -- that requires cooking. Tell how the menu includes the 4 basic food groups and meets nutritional needs. Requirement 4e On one campout, serve as a patrol's cook. Supervise your assistant(s) in using a stove or building a cooking fire. Prepare the breakfast, lunch, and dinner planned in requirement 4a. Lead your patrol in saying grace at the meals and supervise cleanup. In my opinion, it does support the patrol method -- we can't all cook at the same time. The cook has leadership responsibilities. Sounds like 4a can be done as a group, but 4e you have to be THE cook for the campout and supervise helper and cleanup crew. (A good reason to have a lot of campouts, so everyone gets a chance at this in the first year or so.) Four basic food groups? Do kids know what that is? I thought everyone was on board with the food pyramid these days.

Rooster, I like the idea of a closing. Much better than "okay, that's all". The microphone is also good for the Leaders who speak into their shirts. I've seen leaders stand in front of the boys, with their backs to the audience as they "announced" the awards. No one had a clue what was going on, so why bother. If one kid earns a lot of belt loops at one time, I just give a summary of what he earned "Bobby has been busy and earned a lot of belt loops including bicycling, chess, swimming and bunch more!" No need to list 10 things, they get the point, the boy earned some stuff. Rooster, I like your agenda. It does the alternating between quiet and noisy. When boys do skits, don't be afraid to have them read from their notes. This isn't drama class and sometimes they need their notes in their hands. If I have new boys who are terrified to be up front, I give them a non-speaking part at first. Amazing how those guys can be SO loud when you don't want them to, then in front of the pack they whisper. Another thought, if you have a leader with a poster explaining something like popcorn sales, make sure they write large letters with a magic marker so everyone can read it from across the room. I've seen people try to hold up a poster about something that was so small and light you could not see it. We meet in a school cafeteria. We use the layout like the one in the Cub Scout Leader's handbook. Arrange the tables in a U shape. The boys sit inside the U. The parents behind them. The boys sit by den and rank. It is a big deal to move from the Tiger table to the Wolf table each year. Then suddenly one day you are over at the Webelos II table wondering what happened and grinning like a goofy old person at "those cute little tigers".

Thanks Sheila. It is hard to change people who have "always done it this way" and feel pretty happy with it. I am still considered part of the troop committee. I know the SM is trying to restructure the meetings but I guess I see so many simple changes that could take place. Things that are clearly explained in the Scoutmaster handbook. As a Cub leader I reread the Leader handbook at least once a year, periodically scan through it to see what I have forgotten about. My son wanted to go this last week to see if anything changed but I said we both needed a few weeks away from them. Each attempt lately has been an episode with my son. I have talked to my son about me being involved, trying to give things a chance to change, etc. It is hard for him to comprehend at 11 years old. I guess I will keep my troop position and also register with the pack, not just transfer my application. The other frustrating part is the things the district and council continue to do that are against BSA rules and the lack of training for adults. Webelos are strongly encourage to attend Boy Scout Camporees and compete in Boy Scout skills contest? People all over the district wear their knots they earned as Cub Leaders even though no one has taken the REAL youth protection training.

I'm one of those people who show up 10 minutes EARLY. Hate to get to the movies after they have dimmed the lights. It seems to be a pattern where I live to show up right at the start. I have a Cub Scout den and if only 1 boy is there at starting time, sure is hard to start the meeting. What really irks me is that the same parents who show up late want to make SURE we end on time! They will loudly announce "it's 8:00, we're outta here". I'm trying to get the Cubs into the habit of a closing (the living circle) but the parents left before I could do that! I'm trying to work on these younger boys to BE ON TIME. I told them that that means they need to have homework done, eat supper, clean up and be dressed before their parents tell them. That if we start on time we can do more fun stuff. Also, it is rude to the ones who did show up on time to have to wait or to be interrupted. Rude to me because I have gotten there as the leader and prepared to be ready to go at 7:00. I could have just stayed at home 10 more minutes if we are going to start late. With the group of parents I had before, I threaten to show up 30 minutes late one night or not at all just to say how they reacted. But I pulled myself up above that behavior. Let me step down off the soapbox now.

I'm not a cubmaster but here is my two cents worth. Have fun! The boys will notice if you do or not. Delegate. Use those other parents. Do the silly songs at pack meetings and the silly relay games. Get the leaders and parents to play also. Sing songs that make everyone stand up. Grand Ol' Duke of York is one of my favorites. Go outdoors. Pack camping is lots of fun. Find out about family camping your district and council have. Find out about parades the pack can be in. Our pack rides bikes in 2 parades each year. Get a copy of Program Helps for all the leaders. Then go to www.cubmaster.org and look at Baloo's Bugle. It is a monthly newsletter based on the theme of the month in Program Helps. It also has ideas for Pack meetings. Alternate quiet and noisy activities in the pack meetings. Boys want to YELL and make NOISE! Let them. We had a great resource in our pack the last couple of years -- a school teacher. She could get the attention of the boys and they would never know she just "tricked" them into being quiet. We all would stare in amazement at her and try to learn from her. She would have the boys repeat the name of the game we were about to play until everyone was looking at her and saying it. To get them quiet she would clap her hands high and loud, then low and soft. The boys would clap with her. Start with your hands up near your head and then clap below your waist. Each time get your hands closer to together, and get quieter and quieter. It works. Another noisy/quiet trick. Take your neckerchief or a hat and throw it in the air. When it is in the air everyone is to yell, laugh or stomp their feet. When it hits the floor, they have to be quiet. It gets that energy out of the boys. Have the dens do skits, even very short ones. A few things I've heard lately from other Cubmasters: Have every boy in front of the audience at every pack meeting. If nothing other than to say "Billy has been coming to every meeting. Let's give him a round of applause." Be organized. One lady I know said she had a clipboard for each den. On that clipboard she would put handouts and any last minute information the leaders needed to know for the Pack meeting. The den leaders would give the handouts to the parents and take attendance. Families not there would be mailed the handouts. Have the dens take turns doing the opening Flag ceremony. The boys love that. We also have the boys do the flag ceremony for PTA meetings. If it is the PTA night for the 3rd graders, then the 3rd graders do the flag ceremony. They are there anyway. Okay I guess that was more like a nickel's worth not two cents. Good luck. Have FUN! And post here often.

Bob White, I cannot find in my Cub Scout leader book anything that says Outdoor Training is REQUIRED. No mention of it in the Guide to Safe Scouting.

Yaworski writes: BSA and parents are working very hard to divorce the Webelos phase of the program from the term "Cub Scout." Different uniform, different rank patch, plaid cap. Yep, that is what seems to be happening. I can't really figure out why. If you make Webelos part of Boy Scouting, not Cub Scouting, you are just gonna have boys dropping out at an early age. Just my opinion. "but it is cute and BSA is working really hard on being cute. " Yep, nodding my head on that one. Our pack seldom talks about Akela and Baloo. That's right, we don't say the Law of the Pack. Right now I'm trying to get everyone to say the Cub Scout promise!

BALOO training is needed to take the pack camping. Tigers, Wolves and Bears cannot go camping as a den, only with the pack and only at approved locations. Tigers can only camp at council sponsored events --- like parent and pal weekends. I haven't seen that Outdoor Webelos Training is required to take Webelos camping. I did read last night that it is recommended if you don't have experience camping, you should camp with a troop or with a few experienced campers. Another point -- Baloo is the big bear in the Jungle Book story. The training BALOO is an acronym. The wolf and bear cub books tell the Jungle Book story and have pictures of Baloo the bear helping the kids.

Oops, I meant 2nd & 3rd grade Cubs. Just read later last night that Akela is the leader for Wolves and Baloo is the leader for Bears. A lot of the new literature refers to Cubs as 2nd & 3rd graders ONLY and Webelos as a different "thing". Bob, Check about Webelos again. I quickly looked a 1954 Bear book and it still refers to the Lion rank. Webelos was the highest award for Cubs at that time, it was what we call the Arrow of Light today. I think Lions were changed to Webelos in the mid to late 60's. In 1954 Webelos still stood for Wolf Bear Lion Scout.

Webelos don't really talk about Akela and Baloo from the Jungle book. It is different than 2nd & 3rd grade Webelos. The thing about the colors. If someone told you it is to be rewarded when they earn their bobcat that is just a pack decision. That is NOT something BSA says. As far as BSA is concerned they can wear it anytime. Ask your son's den leader.

Do you have the Webelos leader book? It has the meetings laid out like Program helps. Webelos is tough on the leader. The problem I made was I tried to do it all myself. If I do Webelos again, I will be signing up parents to do each activity badge and I will sit back and watch. Bob, I am trying to remember your recruiting ideas. One of my personal goals is to recruit more pack members. I did the family survey in my den. Have one mom pegged for coordination of the Blue & Gold. Will try to get all the parents to show up for the committee meeting. Then I'll move to another den...hehehe.

We have the same problem with our pack. I think we are actually chartered by the school itself. The previous principle would come to the Blue & Gold, but he was more involved in everything. Unlike the current principal who is never seen at any after-hours school events. I think we also need a closer relationship. I feel the unit should also live up to it's promise to help the CO. We don't do that very well. We do have boys do the flag ceremony at PTO meetings.

This is a question for people at the pack and troop level. When you say a meeting starts at 7:00 p.m. do you actually start at 7:00 or is the first 10 minutes the "gathering time"? Do people show up before the start time or AT the start time?

I guess in a perfect world Packs have a full committee. I know that is a serious problem in our Pack. Right now we barely have enough Den Leaders. I'm eyeing a few parents in my den to get them on the committee. At first I sometimes helped my husband plan meetings for the Wolf Den. Then I became the Webelos leader a couple of years later. Now I am a Bear Leader. Program Helps is the best thing around! In the last few weeks I have practically planned out the next 9 months of meetings. This way I'm not running around at the last minute getting supplies. I also work outside of the home, most leaders I know work full time. I feel that by only having 2 meetings per month, we are giving the families only 1/2 a program. Where I live it is hard to start a meeting before 7:00. If we went for 1 1/2 hours to 2 hours, people would not get home until 9:00 or later. These little guys have to go to bed by 8:30 or 9:00. I do too! I think we have to believe in and trust the program. It is my understanding (Bob White correct me if wrong) that BSA is constantly reviewing the program, how children learn, and what works. Sure some tweaking might be needed. But why recreate the wheel? With Program Helps I don't have to think of a theme, I can look at the one in the book. If I just don't think it will work I can go to a different theme from a previous year's Program Helps. Our Pack has not begun to use the themes. Maybe soon. My new mantra is "Use Program Helps"!

Janssenil, I had the same problem with a Webelos den I had. Three of the boys were friends and lived in the same neighborhood. Sometimes one parent would bring all three. I think the moms would get together and decide whether or not to attend a meeting. Then all or none would show up. I kept saying "call me before the meeting if you can't make it". Right near end of our den, they didn't show up one night. When I got home I had a voice mail they had left DURING the meeting. Soon after that they all just dropped out. They tried to say they thought I wasn't having meetings anymore. What I had said was that I would continue to have meetings even after my son crossed over, if their sons had not crossed over. Arrghhhh! I could call these people the day before the meeting, they would say "okay, thanks for calling" and then not show up. For over a year I dealt with this, never finding a solution for this group. I explained over and over that I spent my time preparing for the meeting, buying supplies, etc. If their boys didn't show up then any games I had planned could not take place. I would expect 6 and get 3 (one being my son). They tried the "oh, but WE work " excuse. Okie dokie, so do I. And even the stay at home moms I know are very, very busy. Most parents in our den work outside the home. Many work different shifts. But they find a way to get their kids to the meetings. I got tired of doing the calling myself because it was such a waste of time. And everyone has the same calendar of events that I do.

I think I know parents who have the grandparents sew on the badge OR they use glue. :-) I actually sew on mine and my son's by hand. Periodically I have to resew them because they come undone.

Bob White, What about troops that don't use the patrol method, don't use the First Class emphasis, don't use new scout patrols (the call them that but no troop guide, no ASM), everything is about earning merit badges, don't do outdoor things but 2 or 3 times a year, etc. I know my son will have some unhappy times. My goal is not for him to earn X number of merit badges or reach Eagle by a certain age or even to reach Eagle at all. My goal is for him to be involved in a good group that is for youth. I guess we settle for less in a troop, never mind if they really use the BSA tried & true methods, or follow policies and rules. OR we just forget it.