scoutldr

The first lady made it sound as if wearing a complete uniform was a quaint tradition that almost no one follows! Sadly, her observation is more true than not. It would be a great customer service if National Supply Service would have web-enabled ordering with shipping direct to the customer. The web site will let you generate a "shopping cart" but when it's time to check-out, you are told to print your list and take it to your nearest Scout Shop. Unfortunately, our Council actively discourages buying from the catalog 800 number, because then they don't get their "cut". They want all special orders to be placed via the Council Scout Shop.

Here's an idea...since too many BOR and Scoutmasters do not seem to grasp the idea of "duty to God" and the ones that do are reticent to enforce it...a new "Eagle Required" merit badge called "Religious Life" or "Duty to God". Requirement 1 would be "Earn the religious award for your Faith" OR do the following: The optional requirements would be for those who choose not to participate in organized religion, which we all agree is not a BSA requirement. But they would have to seek out a qualified counselor to demonstrate that they understand "duty to God" and are practicing it in whatever form the BSA deems adequate. Then side-stepping the issue and rubberstamping Eagle apps would not be an option.

My council camp: All meds turned into health lodge, except epi-pens and inhalers. Spare inhaler required and must be kept at health lodge. No meds allowed without an original Rx bottle or doctor's order (for non-Rx meds). Same applies to adults, but most ignore it. On check in, I was interrogated by a 14 year old female CIT on my meds "what's THAT for?"...turns out Monday morning she was working the Scoutcraft area. From now on, I keep my own meds.

Eammon said, "that he was shocked at the number of Scouts who use the bathroom and leave without washing their hands." I work at a medical facility. It is even more shocking to see medical personnel not washing after toileting. While "holding the cleanest part of your body" may not be the biggest concern, the fecal-oral route is a widespread cause of gastro-intestinal illness from E-coli contamination and more serious diseases such as Hepatitis A. One of our recent Lt. Governors contracted adult polio from changing his son's diaper, who had just had a polio vaccination. I, for one, do not want my food or utensils handled by waiters who never wash their hands. Besides, it's just gross.(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

In 1966, we had the metal spring cots with 6 inch mattresses. When I returned to camp in 1984, the same cots were there, sans mattresses. Now we have Army-style cots, some wood frame/canvas and some aluminum frame/nylon. I supplement that with a foam pad and sleeping bag, but usually sleep on top with a sheet. A mosquito net over the whole thing is imperative.

So...were they directed to hand over their Scout badges and sent home? That's my point. Don't waste my time with lip-service. Everyone sees it for what it is...especially the boys.

Analogous to laser-tag, this event does not follow the Guide to Safe Scouting and does not qualify as a Scouting or Troop event, if it is run as you described. However, if a group of nine (or more) families decide to get together and do this, it's still a free country. I would require the following: - Planning of the event may NOT be done by the PLC or discussed during a Troop meeting - It should not appear on the troop calendar - A council tour permit will NOT be requested - All parents will be notified that this is NOT a Troop function - The troop will not handle any money or forms - Troop equipment will not be used In other words, you can SAY it's not a troop event, but then you have to make sure that it's not even perceived as a troop event. What you do means more than what you say.

I am registered as a Troop CC, a District Committee member, and a MBC, and have been registered continuously as an adult since 1985. I had to fill out three new application forms this year. If they consequently did three separate background checks, that is terribly inefficient and unnecessarily expensive. It is also the responsibility of the District Advancement Committee to approve all MBC applications, which means they should be verifying that they are qualified to serve as experts in their chosen MB. MBCs are registered at the District level; it is not a Unit position as is commonly believed.(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

"for the places that don't rent out cots?"... Interesting...in the Council in which I am permitted to serve, camp costs $165 a week...if we had to pay extra for a place to sleep, there would be a major revolution!

The only problem we've had with cell phones is with the older guys calling girlfriends constantly. It really is distracting to the program. We categorize them as electronic devices...if I see them in use, they get confiscated and returned when we get home. Since I have to use "vacation" time for camp, my phone stays in the car, too. My employer will just have to get by until I get back to work Monday morning.

I can explain and give examples of say, for instance, Communism, without believing in it or living it in my daily life. I believe the requirement is to "live" the Scout Oath and Law, not just memorize it and be able to explain it and give examples of it. I agree with a previous poster...the Troop Committee and SM did the lad a disservice and put the BOR in a bad position by sending forward a Scout candidate for the rank of Eagle who obviously had no religious training nor convictions and could produce no references in that regard. Once the BOR begins is not the time for the Eagle Candidate to start wondering and deciding if he believes in God or not, only when coached by the Board members. We're not doing our jobs, folks. That was the point of my original post.

Thanks for answering ScoutNut...I wasn't quick enough. See if you can attend camp as a "Provisional Camper"...and individual scout who attends without his home troop. Our troop has had one or two "Provisionals" the past couple of years and they were a joy. They really wanted to be there, so they were no trouble, and our boys got to meet someone new. The lesson was that all scouts are Brothers and you should be able to hook up with any troop and have fun. Just go a different week ... should be no problem.

In my book, the first word is "On". I agree...find another troop. And send a letter to the IH, copy to the SM and SE. State the facts as to why you are transferring your membership (i.e., SM refused to adhere to the advancement rules of the BSA). Do not be emotional or libelous, despite the fact that this guy appears to be either a nut case or an egomaniacal jerk. Maybe both.(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

Around here, one's name is dragged through the mud at the first inkling of anything wrong, for any crime. Then, of course, when acquitted, you never hear about it...that story is not "news" and is buried on Page 53.

I thought the official "party line" is that "scouts should be encouraged to wear as complete a uniform as possible."

On the Eagle Scout Application, there are spaces for listing the names and addresses of your references. The spaces are labeled: Parents/Guardians Religious Employer (if any) Education 2 others of your choice For a total of six references. The one marked "Employer" is the only one which appears to be optional. So, I guess technically, the requirement is to provide names and addresses. Actually getting reference letters is not specified and would be "adding to the requirements". Even if the references are not favorable, the requirement has still been met.

Check out the "Standard Price Guide to U.S. Scouting Collectibles" by George Cuhaj Should be able to search on "Cuhaj" on Amazon or Ebay and find it. Make sure you buy the latest edition (blue cover).

Pounder, here is the requirement: Eagle Scout Requirement 2: Demonstrate that you live by the principles of the Scout Oath and Law in your daily life. List the names of individuals who know you personally and would be willing to provide a recommendation on your behalf. If the blank on the application for "religious leader" is left blank, should the application even be processed by Council? As the District Rep to the BOR, I feel this put me in a very untenable position. If the Council registrar, SM, and CC have all signified that all requirements were met, who am I to disagree?

At the risk of being redundant... Rules and Regulations, Article XI, Section 1, Local Council and Unit Finance Clause 2, Disposition of Unit Funds Upon Termination of Local Council or Unit (b) Unit Obligations. In the event of the dissolution of a unit or the revocation or lapse of its charter, the unit committee shall apply unit funds and property to the payment of unit obligations and shall turn over the surplus, if any, to the local council, if there is one, or if there is no local ocuncil, dispose of the same in accordance with the direction of the Executive Board of the Boy Scouts of America. In the case of a chartered organization, any funds or equipment which may have been secured as property of the unit shall be held in trust by the chartering organizaiton or the chartered local council, as may be agreed upon, pending reorganization of the unit or for the promotion of the program of the Boy Scouts of America. © Administration of Local Funds by Corporation. Any property or funds acquired by the Executive Board upon the dissolution of a Scouting unit or local council shall be administered so as to make effective, as far as posssible, the intentions and wishes of the donors. (d) Special Funds. Special funds created for specific purposes, acquired by a unit or local council, shall be vested in a bank, trust company or BSA Intravest Trust, in trust for the use of the unit or the local council, in accordance with the wishes of the donors, with the provision in the statement of the conditions governing the admiinistering of the funds that in the event of the dissolution of the unit or council or revocation or lapse of its charter said trustee or trustees will, after satisfying any clams against such fund, turn over to the Boy Scouts of America the balance for use by the Boy Scouts of America for the benefit of Scouting in such locality and for the specific purposes for which the fund was granted. If there is no suitable opportunity for the use of said fund in such locality, it may be used elsewhere. This is from the "Rules and Regulations", which, as has been alleged, we mere volunteers have no need to see. Our DE copied this and passsed it out at our last District Committee mtg, as it had recently been an issue. I believe that the use of the phrase "secured as property of the unit" is significant, in that it indicates that units can, indeed own property such as funds and equipment. I am correcting my training syllabus accordingly. I will leave it to NJScouter to interpret the fine legal points, but it's pretty clear to me. The troop committee has an obligation to see that the boys get their "Scout Account" money ("special funds"), and the rest goes to the Council, provided there is no intent to resurrect the unit by the CO. As BW is fond of saying, unless the posters here can quote the reference, what they post here is just hearsay and opinion. Caveat emptor.

I recently was invited to sit on an Eagle Board of Review. The scout had no letter of reference from a religious leader...because he did not have a religious leader. It was evident from the questions and answers that the scout had never had a religious component to his home life. His answer to "what does 'A Scout is Reverent' mean to you", was "I guess it means going to church and stuff." Maybe the Eagle Scout's application should never have made it that far, but it did. Should we have terminated the BOR and said, "sorry, close, but no cigar." This was a troop committee-run BOR. Another troop committee told me that the DC who sat on their last Eagle Board told them that religion questions were off limits. The scout met the joining requirements and that's all they needed to know. If we really start enforcing the BSA policy that I posted in the other forum, that Eagle percentage is gonna fall back to around 1%.

If troop elections are properly conducted, why is there even a question? The boy was either elected to a POR, or not. If he's nominated in an open forum, and declines, then everyone knows the score. The SM does not "allow" nor "disallow".

Just as a refresher: BSA Religious Principles (Reprinted from the 1992 edition of BSA's Advancement Guidelines: Council and District Functions.) The Boy Scouts of America has a definite position on religious principles. The following interpretative statement may help clarify this position. The Boy Scouts of America: Does not define what constitutes belief in God or the practice of religion. Does not require membership in a religious organization or association for enrollment in the movement but does prefer, and strongly encourages, membership and participation in the religious programs and activities of a church, synagogue, or other religious association. Respects the convictions of those who exercise their constitutional freedom to practice religion as individuals without formal membership in organized religious organizations. In a few cases, there are those who, by conviction, do not feel it necessary to formally belong to an organized form of religion and seek to practice religion in accordance with their own personal convictions. Every effort should be made to counsel with the boy and his parents to determine the true story of the religious convictions and practices as related to advancement in Scouting. Religious organizations have commended the Boy Scouts of America for encouraging youth to participate in organized religious activities. However, these same organizations reject any form of compulsion to enforce conformity to establish religious practices. If a boy says he is a member of a religious body, the standards by which he should be evaluated are those of that group. This is why an advancement committee usually requests a reference from his religious leader to indicate whether he has lived up to their expectations. Throughout life, Scouts are associated with people of different faiths. Scouts believe in religious freedom, respecting others whose religion may differ from theirs. Scouting believes in the right of all to worship God in their own way.

I have washed mine with good success...I put it in one of those mesh bags to keep it from winding up around the agitator and use the gentle cycle. Yes, the red thread is unravelling...the one I received in 1968 seems to be of much better quality, although it has shrunk noticeably :-(. The lodge did receive a batch recently with one half of the snap missing. I believe they were sent back...to Bangladesh or wherever they were made. The sash being part of the uniform, I believe it should NOT be worn with civilian clothes...unless by a ceremonial team or the aforementioned Elangomats, who

To provide an exception to that theory, I recently saw on Ebay an original Den Mother's Training Award...a medal suspended from a yellow and white pocket ribbon. I believe Cubmasters received the standard Key on a green ribbon with a Cub device on it. If a scouter earned the Key for in all phases of scouting, he would wear 4 (or more) devices on the ribbon and knot. It wasn't until the late 70's/early 80's that the Cub Scout training awards came out on yellow and blue neck ribbons. Now, neither are presented. Square knots are it, but there are more of them.

By ANNE GEARAN Associated Press Writer (AP) - The Supreme Court preserved the phrase "one nation, under God," in the Pledge of Allegiance, ruling Monday that a California atheist could not challenge the patriotic oath but sidestepping the broader question of separation of church and state. At least for now, the decision - which came on Flag Day - leaves untouched the practice in which millions of schoolchildren around the country begin the day by reciting the pledge. The court said atheist Michael Newdow could not sue to ban the pledge from his daughter's school and others because he did not have legal authority to speak for her. Newdow is in a protracted custody fight with the girl's mother. He does not have sufficient custody of the child to qualify as her legal representative, the court said. Eight justices voted to reverse a lower court ruling in Newdow's favor. Justice Antonin Scalia removed himself from participation in the case, presumably because of remarks he had made that seemed to telegraph his view that the pledge is constitutional. "When hard questions of domestic relations are sure to affect the outcome, the prudent course is for the federal court to stay its hand rather than reach out to resolve a weighty question of federal constitutional law," Justice John Paul Stevens wrote for the court. "I may be the best father in the world," Newdow said shortly after the ruling was announced. "She spends 10 days a month with me. The suggestion that I don't have sufficient custody is just incredible. This is such a blow for parental rights." The 10-year-old's mother, Sandra Banning, had told the court she has no objection to the pledge. The full extent of the problems with the case was not apparent until she filed papers at the high court, Stevens wrote Monday. Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist agreed with the outcome of the case, but still wrote separately to say that the pledge as recited by schoolchildren does not violate the Constitution. Justices Sandra Day O'Connor and Clarence Thomas agreed with him. The ruling came on the day that Congress set aside to honor the national flag. The ruling also came exactly 50 years after Congress added the disputed words "under God" to what had been a secular patriotic oath. The high court's lengthy opinion overturns a ruling two years ago that the teacher-led pledge was unconstitutional in public schools. That appeals court decision set off a national uproar and would have stripped the reference to God from the version of the pledge said by about 9.6 million schoolchildren in California and other western states. Newdow's daughter, like most elementary school children, hears the Pledge of Allegiance recited daily. The First Amendment guarantees that government will not "establish" religion, wording that has come to mean a general ban on overt government sponsorship of religion in public schools and elsewhere. The Supreme Court has already said that schoolchildren cannot be required to recite the oath that begins, "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America." The court has also repeatedly barred school-sponsored prayer from classrooms, playing fields and school ceremonies. The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals said the language of the First Amendment and the Supreme Court's precedents make clear that tax-supported schools cannot lend their imprimatur to a declaration of fealty to "one nation under God." The Bush administration, the girl's school and Newdow all asked the Supreme Court to get involved in the case. The administration had asked the high court to rule against Newdow, either on the legal question of his ability to sue or on the constitutional issue. The administration argued that the reference to God in the pledge is more about ceremony and history than about religion. The reference is an "official acknowledgment of our nation's religious heritage," similar to the "In God We Trust" stamped on coins and bills, Solicitor General Theodore Olson argued to the court. It is far-fetched to say such references pose a real danger of imposing state-sponsored religion, Olson said. Newdow claims a judge recently gave him joint custody of the girl, whose name is not part of the legal papers filed with the Supreme Court. Newdow holds medical and legal degrees, and says he is an ordained minister. He argued his own case at the court in March. The case began when Newdow sued Congress, President Bush and others to eliminate the words "under God." He asked for no damages. On Monday, Newdow said he would continue that fight. "The pledge is still unconstitutional," he said. "What is being done to parents is unconstitutional." Newdow had numerous backers at the high court, although they were outnumbered by legal briefs in favor of keeping the wording of the pledge as it is. The Rev. Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, said he is disappointed. "The justices ducked this constitutional issue today, but it is likely to come back in the future," Lynn said. "Students should not feel compelled by school officials to subscribe to a particular religious belief in order to show love of country." On the other side, the American Center for Law and Justice said the ruling removes a cloud from the pledge. "While the court did not address the merits of the case, it is clear that the Pledge of Allegiance and the words 'under God' can continue to be recited by students across America," said Jay Sekulow, the group's chief counsel. Congress adopted the pledge as a national patriotic tribute in 1942, at the height of World War II. Congress added the phrase "under God" more than a decade later, in 1954, when the world had moved from hot war to cold. Supporters of the new wording said it would set the United States apart from godless communism. The case is Elk Grove Unified School District v. Newdow, 02-1624. (Copyright 2004 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.)